OutdoorKing Repair Forum Forums Repairs and Maintenance Questions On Ride On Mowers Questions on Rover Ride On Mower MTD Rover Raider 1438 cutter deck belt tension

I have a customer's MTD Rover Raider 1438 ride on mower that keeps chewing the deck belts every week.

The customer has gone over to using the standard black dairy vacuum pump A section belts to save costs, but has found they shred in about 15-30 minutes when mowing 3" tall cape weed.

I ordered in a Kevlar belt from GA Spares that replaces the MTD/Kioti Daedong part number for this mower, but the tensioner doesn't apply enough pressure and causes the belt to squeal when engaged without even cutting anything.

The tensioner is basically a cable from the lever to a spring attached to the engagement arm with the idler pulley to apply the tension to the belt. When the lever is moved to the engaged position, it applies some tension but not enough to prevent it slipping.

Does anyone know if there is provision to adjust the cable at the lever and if so, do I have to take out the transmission to get to it? The easiest way would be to take the angle grinder to the battery box, but I don't want to go on that route!

I'll take some photos tomorrow and upload them to help clarify the situation.

Here's the link to the owners manual: http://www.rover.com.au/files/edito...1438%20&%201842%20Lawn%20Tractor.pdf

Hi LRT,

Have you checked the pulley bearings (idler and spindles)as they could have a flat spot and jamming causing the squealing. I have found this to be an issue in the past and some times hard to find.

Let us know what you find?

Thanks Bruce, I'll have a look.

I bypassed the seat safety switch and ran the mower with the cutter drive engaged so I could watch and LH cutter drive pulley wobbles, so I'll have to strip it down to investigate. No doubt the shaft has bent as it is a very flimsy design.

However, with the cutter drive engaged (and the engine off of course!), I can turn the pulley using a pocket balance, which indicates 3kg of force to turn it.

This seems way to loose and the mower shouldn't have lost adjustment as it's hardly had any use.

Here are the pictures:



See how loose the belt is when engaged


I love the design!
The lift rod rubs on the transmission belt and the pulley is crooked�


The hole for the brake spring is too close�


The tab on the idler pulley needed bending out to stop the belt dragging�

Yep, that is about the way they are, flimsy design and everything is so tight in there and the belts will always seem to rub on something. As for the spindles, I find it hard to believe that some numnutter designed something that is known to be going to suffer impacts over the years and yet they design the things to fail, but people still go out and buy this rubbish because it looks good in the showroom

I think this would be the best solution to modifying it!



However, it's not my mower and I'm meant to be able to fix it even if the dealer doesn't want to.

Dealers don't want to fix that stuff because they know just how difficult and frustrating the are to repair, we are just the mugs people come to to see if they can con you into repairing this stuff, knowing full well you are not able to charge them anywhere the hours you end up spending working on them. They would have a heart attack if you did that

You're spot on! I've already spent 2 days on this thing without any result. That is 16 + hours of time I could have used elsewhere.

Sadly outdoor power equipment is no longer a worth the time and effort. If we still had import restrictions and a local content requirement I'm sure things would be different.

I'm thinking of swinging over to the smaller mobile plant such as the bigger zero turn mowers and mini skid steers as they are worth repairing.

Not being smart .....check the routing of the belt ie: how it goes around the pulleys. It will only work properly if belt is correctly fitted.
Also check how the belt travels around the pulleys when the deck is in its lowest position with the blades engaged (engine off), often the movable pulley is skew allowing the belt to run up the rim of the pulley.
last thing, throw the mulch plug, if fitted, in the bin.
I hate the bloody things
Good luck, let us know how you go.

Ps check the operator engages the belt engagement slowly as quick engagement can cause problems as the belt battles to get the blades up to speed quickly. This is the biggest cause of standard belts dying quickly. They are not designed to slip to allow bade engagement under load.

Thanks Dieselboy. I have routed the belt as per the illustration in the owners manual.

I have noticed the belt tensions more the higher the deck is raised. I tried putting a wider B section belt on to see what would happen and the belt slipped when the deck was down low but when raised fully the belt was so tight it didn't disengage and overloaded the starter motor.

Yes the mulch plug is long gone

Thanks for the tip about loading the belt slowly. I'll have to check to see what he does.

There is rubber sprayed around the pulleys and the steel pulleys had a layer of rubber on them. I gather this means the belt has been slipping.

The old belt looks glazed and has been sliced through on an angle as though someone cut it. On the John Deere mowers, I find the black belts usually break up in chunks.

The B section belt definitely won't work.

The belt been sliced at an angle indicates the belt is running on the rim of a pulley , the glazed look can be normal on a correctly installed belt.
Check belt pulley alignment - should be as straight as posible
Belts tend to lose chunks if they fail, slipping creates polished belts and pulleys - think smooth pulleys rubbing at high speed on the belt.
Rubber shavings indicate a shredding cutting action OR a normal vee-belt been used where a wrapped belt is indicated.
Imagine the engine doing 3300 rpm trying to get heavy stationary blades up to speed in a fraction of a second. The wrapped belt will allow the slip necessary to accelerate the blades without damage to the belt.

Lastly check there is nothing (stick,stone,seed, nut etc) lodged in a pulley vee - don't ask me how I know

Cheers. Have a great weekend

The LH cutter drive pulley has a wobble so I'll have to see what's going on there, the idler pulley was facing down on the engine side so is probably the cause of the belt cutting.

The mower should have a wrapped belt but the owner changed to the black ones as he was sick of spending $40 just to cut the lawn each week.

Looking at the belt with the tensioner engaged, it doesn't look as tight as say a an older cars fan belt but bulges out behind the pulleys when you turn the engine by hand.

Whereas on my 2002 Viking mower that I have had new, the belt is twice as tight when engaged and has only gone through one wrapped belt before the engine wore out. However, the idler pulley is double the width, which no doubt allows it to move without getting sliced.

Anyone know how to upload a video clip other than a YouTube link?

Here are a couple of pictures of the sliced belt that was on the mower when it came to me:



Notice it has been tapered on both sides.

Here is the belt routing taken from the owners manual:

Hi
Looks like that belt has been the victim of a seized pulley or or obstructed blade, it is worn away not sliced. The wear is on the inside indicating a vee pulley issue and not an idler pulley or guide issue.
I've found the easiest way to get belt tension improved is to order a belt one or two inches shorter than specified eg A 81 or A 82 instead of an A84 as an example.
Ensure the guides around the crank pulley are close, almost touching the pulley to prevent the belt dropping down and been worn on the shoulder of the pulley.
They can be millimetres away because the slack occurs on the front of the pulley furthest from the deck to cease drive transmission to the blades.
Hope my waffle all makes sense!

Thanks. It looks like the bent LH pulley is the cause. I'll take the deck off again and see what's happened.

One last thing to check is that no pulley has a shiny valley bottom ie. The belt is not engaging the taper on the pulley sides but ineffectively bottoming out.

The drive pulley looks ok but the cutter pulley looks very close to bottoming out.

Circumstances have changed this week so I won't be able to get to it until later this week or early next week and the computer's hard drive failed today so I'm trying to clone the drive and hopefully recover most of my files. I wish I backed it up!

I have ordered a new GA Spares spindle to replace the bent one.

Here is a comparative diagnostic picture:

On the left is a belt off a John Deere mower that had been slipping, and on the right is the belt off the MTD mower that was cut on an angle.

I fitted the new spindle on the mower today. It certainly reduces the vibration but the belt still sounds as though it is slipping slightly and is warm to touch when I ran it at half throttle with no load.

These pictures are taken of the belt whilst under tension. To me it looks too loose judging by the way it bulges out near each pulley.

I have uploaded a video clip of the mower running to YouTube. The image quality seems to be poor compared to the original but it could just be my computer.



MTD Rover Raider 14/38 ride-on mower spindle

Okay if that is under tension then you definitely have the wrong belt. Here the MTD "F" decks usually use a 1/2 x77-1/2" belt and I service one that has so wear plus a re-welded deck hanger ( not my work) that it requires a 1/2 x 77". Now I don't know what the Rover Raider as for the deck belt size but MTD tends to be picky about their belt sizes.

Be carefully of resizing the belt especially if the HP is 16.5 or less as when you engine it will shake you to pieces. I assuming the 14 in the model means it is a 14 hp. Just want it tight enough as to not slip engage but loose enough to slip when disengaged.

Okay if that is under tension then you definitely have the wrong belt. Here the MTD "F" decks usually use a 1/2 x77-1/2" belt and I service one that has so wear plus a re-welded deck hanger ( not my work) that it requires a 1/2 x 77". Now I don't know what the Rover Raider as for the deck belt size but MTD tends to be picky about their belt sizes.

Be carefully of resizing the belt especially if the HP is 16.5 or less as when you engine it will shake you to pieces. I assuming the 14 in the model means it is a 14 hp. Just want it tight enough as to not slip engage but loose enough to slip when disengaged.

BTW I don't see anything wrong with the JD belt. :lol:

Hi AVB,

I have fitted a 1/2" x 77.15" Kevlar belt (K-Force B195404062) that is meant to replace the 954-04062 belt that the MTD Rover Raider owners manual specifies.

But yes, it does look too loose. Maybe I should search around for a genuine MTD belt to try out and measure up.

You are right - the 14/38 stands for a 14HP Briggs & Stratton and a 38" deck.

You might ought to measure the K-Force. Here is the reason why. My main belt supplier sells but the sizes have label differently lately. The B195404062 I currently have on the shelf from 2 years ago is labeled as 77-7/8 so looked up the belt on Sunbelt's ( A and I) belt to belt look-up and it shows them as being 77-1/2 and 77.15 with them currently listed as 77.15. I also recently fought a battle with them over a 3/8 belt that was to be 34.2" which turn out to be 33.75. So tight on the machine I can't even mount it. Even Husqvarna sent the same size belt. I had to modify the brake so the engagement pulley could loosen enough to where I get a standard 34" belt on.

Makes me nervous when a vendor starts changing sizes in mid stream. Makes me question the sizes when I have problems after installation. On top that vendor pulley sizes doing the same thing. A will work item on a MTD just don't get it. Causes me a lot extra work figuring out what went wrong.

Here is an image of my mower's deck. Sorry the messy look it been raining nearly constant for two weeks so I haven't got a chance to clean it. Can't even cut the grass as I would be mowing water instead. As you will see belt looks a lot tighter than yours.

This might help you with the belt issue. Make sure that you check where the spring goes.

Hi AVB,

The belt measures 77" on the outside, so is close to the 77.15" size.

Yes, it is frustrating when manufacturers change things. So far I have spent $1,000 worth of labour troubleshooting this mower that I can't pass on.

The belt tension on your mower is what I expected it should look like. Thanks for the picture.

Hi Bruce,

Thanks for the video link. It was interesting and helpful.

The video indicates that I do have the spring is in the right hole.

Many thanks.