that's all I needed to hear to convince me of the difficult path ahead should I attempt a repair. I'm running the white flag up the pole as we speak. It has defeated me.
I think that the hole has opened up enough that unless knurling and loctiting could secure the gear unit, something along the lines you describe would be necessary. And that isn't feasible.
Unless AVB thinks there is a chance of knurling working given the hole enlargement described, we can well and truly say RIP engine.
I'm considering another Greenfields as an immediate and cheap replacement, and if it fails I will fit one with a Chonda. Plenty of spares if I buy the one I'm thinking of because same unit- frame, body, deck, drive, just with a 17hp motor. And I've now developed a level of knowledge of the drive and other features, it seems a pity to go to something with a drive system I don't know anything about. It will hurt to part with over $5000 on a new mower that could do the job- a club cadet tractor (XT2 LX42) or zero turn (the RZT S series) are the recommended units. Happy to hear anyone's opinion on these mowers.
I suppose that about wraps up the governor issue anyway.
Wilbur, all I will say is stick with the Greenies, they are far more robust and repairable than the other stuff. While you have this motor off could you take some measurements on the bolt hole so we can see if it is a standard Briggs bolt pattern
I've included a photo of the rough dimensions of the mounting bolt pattern. If I've misunderstood, let me know and I'll get the measurements you were after.
I think you are right to stick with the Greenies. It suits me better, even if I do need to do a bit of work. They all need some work, even from new. My brother in law's new Cub cadet RZT S series is already throwing belts before its first service (albeit overdue- could be entirely their fault).
I should pick up my new old Greenfield in the next week, and hope for at least a few hours of trouble-free cutting.
The scientist in me wants to find the best glue on the market for metals and put the old engine back together (for fun only) to see how many seconds it runs for before throwing the governor away again. Reality will prevail though. It will sit in the shed for far too long before being offered as parts. I suppose this forum would be a good place to make that offering, when the time is right.
Wilbur Greenies are not the most sophisticated but they won't send you broke either with big repair bills and replacement parts all the time. Very rugged machine that you are able to repair fairly easily. You can contact the Loctite distributors (I forget who they are) and tell them what you need to achieve and they can put you onto what they think is best. Some of the Loctites are very strong, I have been told that one of the drive gears in a BMW gearbox is only fitted using Loctite on a straight shaft so it must be pretty good. I will check the bolt pattern tomorrow because it is a question I asked some time ago and did not get an answer. Good chance it is the same as the small Briggs motors from those measurements
in looking at replacement motors, I noticed that the Jono and Johno replacement motors (Chondas or similar) show the mounting bolt measurements. Their 17.5 single has the same pattern as my motor, but their 20hp twin is different. They claim both of these motors have the Briggs and Stratton pattern. From your comment it seems that there are at least 2 Briggs patterns, for different sized motors?
Those measurements don't match the smaller Briggs motors but they do match an 8HP I have so I'm not sure at what HP they change. I know I did get caught fitting a 6HP Chonda on a small Greenie a few years ago. It was claimed to be Briggs pattern, had a 25mm shaft but it turned into a terrible job drilling the new holes to get the motor in the right position so the belt tension was right. I'm just wondering, as I didn't think about it before, but maybe that motor was a push mower Briggs pattern. I also have a 16hp twin here but as it is still in the mower it is a bit too difficult to measure. This might push that project a bit further up the list now. A few weeks ago I also came across 2 push mower motors with 25mm shafts and this just clouds the water a bit more, the only reason I noticed was when I went to change the boss on them . One was on a Greenie push mower with a Briggs Quantam motor that had from factory the blade carrier welded to the boss. I had to end up cutting the blade carrier off and destroy the boss to get it off. No way you would need a 20HP motor on your Greenie and one thing you must think about is these motors do not have a fuel tank, I'm not sure what the fuel tank situation is on yours, seeing it had a bigger Briggs there would not be a lot of space under the bonnet. I had to make up a fuel tank for a mate to fit up inside the front of the bonnet when I fitted a 13HP Chonda in his.
Norm, I had thought about the potential for the fuel tank to be an issue, and adapting throttle and choke cables, electricals etc. Made the idea of the new old 17hp Greenie that little bit more enticing. Hopefully it will be nice to me.
I'll post a few photos of my old Greenie for the record in my next post, just in case it helps anyone unravel a mystery. Do we have a better place to put those sort of photos or should I just post them here?
Incredible that Loctite might be good enough for BMW. I suppose I would be asking for a glue that also filled a bit, given the fact that the shaft is no longer even snug. Nevertheless it would be interesting to see what would happen. My guess is it would work for about a minute. I like the idea of the experiment, though. The problem is, if it worked, wouldn't I feel foolish if I hadn't replaced the thrust washer and the case gasket and and and......
I'd be interested to know what sort of hours can be got out of ride-on sized Briggs motors. Mine had 650 odd hours on it, and as far as I know it was without problem or significant signs of wear. It didn't use oil, ran powerfully and smoothly right up till just before the governor killed it (Well, there was about an hour of rough running because of the carbie o-ring having gone and the motor running extremely rich, and a bit hot). If that was a car motor, I reckon that would be equivalent to about 40,000kms (?). I know someone who bought a new Holden ute and didn't get it serviced (no oil changes at all) for about 60,000kms. He then drove it up to about 150,000 and it was absolutely fine.
Anyone heard of a 20hp Intek motor with thousands of hours on the clock?
As AVB alluded to earlier, maybe overheating caused the governor failure, so I should reiterate that there was a short period (say three half hour sessions) of time that the motor ran very rich due to carbie problem immediately before I fixed it and started up the motor. Failure was at the very instant of starting, unless it happened as I turned it off before carbie repair. Seems a bit too coincidental, I would have thought. Then again, the starter motor decided to fall apart at pretty much the same time. I had thought that they all might have been linked had mine had a decompression device for start up. As said before and confirmed by AVB, similar motors were fitted with these devices, they were known to break, sometimes taking out the governor. That would have made start up more stressful for the starter, potentially precipitating its failure shortly after. But that wasn't the case. AVB has never seen failure like this. Awesome. I'm an exceptional failure.
Sorry for not being around. Out sick due over spiced meal I cooked. On day 3 and things still tossing and turning but finally improving. I got to go light on that Cumin.
As being over rich usually the extra fuel cools the engine it is going too lean that over heat them.
I have ask my co techs on the forum I manage here and one in Kentucky said he has only seen three engine to fail like Wilbur's. His shop is a lot larger than mine.
Personally I haven't seen any Briggs with thousand of hours on them but what I usually deal with the cheaper non cast iron cylinders anyway. I do have few clients that are approaching the 600 hrs mark. Most the engines I see with a 1000+ hours on them are Kawasaki and Kohler and they are larger ZTRs used for commercial work.
May this will help on the bolt pattern. It is a little heavy on measurements you should still be able figure it out. Meanwhile I got to go back to the restroom to throw up my socks.
Hope you are recovering well, AVB. I love my spices, but have friends that have to be careful so as not to disrupt the natural order in their guts.....
If many motors of this size (ride-on) give up after 600 odd hours, and my failure is rare, what commonly kills them?
Is there anything about mower engines that kills 'em quick? It seems to me that 600 hours is, as I said previously, equivalent to not many kilometres by a car (@60kph= 36,000km). I would have thought that 20hp on a ride-on the size of a Greenfield would hardly be labouring doing what it does....... Does being air cooled make a significant difference? I don't think any motorcycles would expect the same lifespan as a car engine, but they are generally higher performance units.
I would do at least 2 hrs mowing a week, and this would mean that from new I could only expect 5 or 6 years before replacing. To be honest, I would be disappointed with that, particularly had I maintained it as per schedule.
Genuine Hondas are not in a different league altogether?
Norm, I'm glad to see my measurements were at worst only 0.58mm out. It wasn't easy to get a perfect measurement using tape measure and estimated centres, although I did end up measuring side to side, rather than centre to centre. Interesting to see the spacings are not whole numbers (mm) or even common fractions of inches (7.07 inches?).
I better go and push that long suffering Victa pro460 2 stroke around a bit. $30 at the markets years ago. I reckon it has done 600hrs for me and is still going strong (I hope I haven't jinxed it).
Having heard that most ride on motors only run for less than a thousand hours means that the second hand Greenie I'm looking at will want a Chonda very soon as it has over a thousand on the clock. It mightn't be the original though, and as it had a new deck put on it a couple of years back, and drives well, I won't be that disappointed.
Thanks AVB, hope you are feeling a bit better shortly, the old food poisoning is never nice.Those measurements tally up with Wilburs. Wilbur those big motors have a fuel pump so you can fit a tank anywhere. I have never heard of a 13 being under powered, they built plenty with 8HP motors, I assume yours only has a 32 inch cut so the extra power is not needed
Hi Wilbur, mowing 2 acres with a 460 is doing it too tough.You would be better off getting a Victa 24, now they are one serious machine and even 50 year old ones are unbelievable, they just murder the grass. If you get a few years out of a $400 Chonda I wouldn't think that was too bad. Not knowing the total situation, what about something like a grey Fergie and a slasher , that will get over that area in a very short time and they hold their value well and you won't be wearing your Greenie out every few years. Now lets not go talking about the cost of running motorbikes and their engine longevity And then if you wanted the genuine Honda you can go for one of these which we all know give very good service.
Wilbur, one thing to remember if you fit a Honda on this ( I think yours is a Evo with the fuel tank around the steering?) If so this is extremely difficult to get the throttle cable to work because it has to go down under the tank. Because of the slope on the bonnet I don't think you could fit a tank up the front. Just something else to be aware of and the Chonda may present a similar problem, I had forgotten about the Evo fuel tank position
![[Linked Image from thepowerportal.com]](http://www.thepowerportal.com/EngineImages/44L7/full/44L7c.jpg)
