OutdoorKing Repair Forum Forums Restoring, Customising and Modifying Tech Talk Re: Qualcast Side Wheel - Penetrating Oils

Hi I am restoring a Australian made Qualcast side wheel and need some help with the roller bar and wooden rollers.
As the 3 wooden rollers are missing,Does any one know the dimensions of the wooden rollers so I can perhaps get some made?
The roller bar is attached at both ends to brackets which mount on the mower.Does anyone know how to separate the brackets from the roller bar so new rollers can be installed?
Any other info on this mower would be appreciated.
Many thanks
Mikoooo

G'day Mikoooo and a big warm welcome mate. Sorry I have no idea about reel mowers but one of the lads will be along shortly and sort you out.

Hellomikoooo

This is a 16" sidewheel powermower.
Some photos may assist in getting the dimensions.

https://www.outdoorking-forum.com.au/forum/u...AST_-_Side-wheel_Power_Mo.html#Post60359

Hope this helps.
------------------------
Jack

Thanks Jack.Do you know how to separate the bar the wooden rollers are on from the cast iron ends.Mine is rusted on.Are they screwed on ? I do't want to break them trying to remove them so I need to know how they are attached.

gday Mikoooo. i have a pretty good versions if the p1 model .if you can wait till the weekend so i can measure it up ,iwill do so for you.

one has the wooden rollers the other are plastic

G'day folks,

mikoooo, that's a pretty curly question, as it happens! I'd say that there are two possibilities here.

One is that the ends of the roller spindle were originally just a slip fit in the cast iron end brackets. This would rely on the bracket bolts being kept tight, to keep everything together.

The other is, as you say, that the brackets are screwed on to the spindle. If the spindle holes in the brackets are bored through [i.e. the ends of the spindle are visible], then they are screw fitted for sure. If not, they most likely aren't.

In either case, it can be said that the joints will be thoroughly rust-bound [from the spindle condition], and will take some work to separate, if it can be done. It may be necessary to cut the spindle, and drill the stub ends out of the brackets.

To start with, apply a good penetrating lubricant [e.g. CRC 5-56, Inox, Penetrene for example - not WD-40] and give it a week or so to soak in. Then apply heat to the bracket with a hot air gun or propane torch, with the spindle held in a vise [soft jaw covers are a good idea], and try to 'unscrew' a bracket, using leather gloves. Avoid impact on the brackets, and the use of lever extensions - cast iron is brittle.

Hi Gadge

I don't know if that helps.
Here is a parts list extract.
I guess it is just a rusted slip fit job.

Thanks for the info guys

It looks like the spindle doesn't go right through.Perhaps it's a friction fit.
That sure helps as I think it would be much easier (maybe) to remove than if it was a rusted in threaded spindle.In any case I would only need to get one end off in order to put the new rollers on.
I will try CRC 5-56 as you recommend and some propane heat to crack it if possible.(What is wrong with WD40 by the way?)Mabe I cab hold the spindle in a vice and get a slide hammer under the end near the center.
Great diagram Jack.Jack do you have any more info on the mower body.?

thanks Mikoooo

G'day Mikoo, It seems to be a common opinion that WD40 isn't any good. I personally consider it a waste of money and use INOX. It was first recommended to me by my father in law who was a wharfy (they used it on the wharfs) and took his fishing really seriously. Be careful using force or impact on the end pieces as Jack said they're cast and cast can be easily broken. Have you considered using electrolysis to dissolve the rust? It may release the axle?

Nothing wrong with WD40 just not suited for rust penetration. WD40 has hundreds of applications, just google it and you will be totally amazed

I have read a lot of those uses and been quite surprised. I believe that I consistently get better results from Inox and to be honest I have never bought a can of 5.56. We used to get WD40 by the 5 litre at work and I used it to protect tooling. When we switched to Penetrene I thought it was better than the Wd40.
This is just my opinion and clearly someones buying it because they've been selling it a long time.

Hello Mikoooo and all.

I have a 37 page manual and parts list if that is of help?
I will scan and put it in the History Record linked above.

Hope this helps.
---------------------
Jack

That would be fantastic Jack
Thanks mikoooo

Yup, that's it. It has its uses in removing water, and to some extent in temporary corrosion prevention.

But it's lousy at penetrating crevices, and even worse as a lubricant. If you evaporate off the carrier solvent, the residue is a sticky brown gum...

Hi guys
The spindle has been released!!!
I took all your advice and bought some penetrating spray from Bunnings.It seems they have an vested interest in WD40 and 3 plus products by the same maker.However they did have a can of "Reducteur H72" described as a Super releasing agent, releases rusted parts in 30 seconds.I decided to give it a go and at $29 it wasn't cheap.
I gripped the spindle in the vice and sprayed liberally into each end then left it while I had lunch.When I came back i could see the outline of the spindle in the cast iron end.I thought this looked promising do I gripped the cast iron end in the vice at it's centre as I didn't want to break it and turned the spindle with a large stillson wrench.
It moved a bit so I got more spray into it and moved it the other way.I did this for a few minuted back and forward until it came right out.
I did the same at the other end and released it without damage.
See my pictures
http://s1381.photobucket.com/user/micko7/media/released%20parts_zpssbmd8sou.jpg.html?sort=3&o=0
http://s1381.photobucket.com/user/micko7/media/release%20method_zpsv83lu8gh.jpg.html?o=1

The spindle is 1/2 inch diameter and could be replaced if I can find a source.Otherwise I will reuse this one.
The next step is to find the measurements for the wooden rollers so I can try and get some made.
thanks
Mikoooo

Hello mikoooo

It's always good when things turn out relatively easy.
In this case, thought and patience were key factors.
I have emailed the manual to you, as it needs work before
I can upload it here.

--------------------
Jack

p.s. this post will be helpful to other members.

Good show. I'd favour replacing that spindle; it's not in good condition.

All you need is a suitable length of 1/2" 'bright round mild steel bar', which most steel merchants should be able to supply. Or you could even go for Grade 304 or 316 stainless steel, to eliminate rusting.

You'll need to find a merchant who will do 'cut to length'; a look under 'steel supplies' in the Yellow Pages is a good starting point.

If you want to get nuts and bolts or anythings else undone read this
Ian

Of special interest to anyone who's Nuts about Bolts:
Penetrating Oils
Machinist's Workshop Mag recently published some information on various penetrating oils that I found very interesting. Some of you might appreciate this.
The magazine reports they tested penetrates for break out torque on rusted nuts.
They are below, as forwarded by an ex-student and professional machinist.
They arranged a subjective test of all the popular penetrates with the
control being the torque required to remove the nut from a "scientifically rusted" environment.

*Penetrating oils .......... Average torque load to loosen
*No Oil used .................. 516 pounds
WD-40 ..................... ... 238 pounds
PB Blaster .................... 214 pounds
Liquid Wrench ..............127 pounds
Kano Kroil .................... 106 pounds

ATF*-Acetone mix..........53 pounds *ATF=Automatic Transmission Fluid
The ATF-Acetone mix is a "home brew" mix of 50 - 50 automatic
transmission fluid and acetone. Note this "home brew" released bolts better than any commercial product.
In this one particular test our local machinist group mixed up a batch and we all now use it with equally good results.
Note also that "Liquid Wrench" is almost as good as "Kroil" For about 20% of the price.

G'day Ian

That's interesting and I appreciate it.
I know our engineer, MOD Gadge, has been critical of some oils.

Like all products, penetrating oils are subject to marketing puffery,
with no real relationship to the cost of the ingredients. It's just BS,
like pricing of household cleaners at the supermarket.

I would like to clarify a point.
Was the ATF/Acetone mix part of the test?
In other words, is this the actual result:-

Penetrating oils .......... Average torque load to loosen
No Oil used .................. 516 pounds
WD-40 ..................... ... 238 pounds
PB Blaster .................... 214 pounds
Liquid Wrench ..............127 pounds
Kano Kroil .................... 106 pounds
ATF/Acetone mix..........53 pounds

I don't understand ? Was the ATF/Acetone mix part of the test?
YES as they would not of achieved "ATF/Acetone mix.53 pounds"
To not be part of the test would be silly
Also my main interest is stationary engines for about for about 30 years now and learnt from the beginning to free stuck pistons etc use AFT (Automatic Transmission Fluid)way way better than diesel no sooner had I done it I was told a better way add Acetone it works great no more braking rings or pistons and a lot lees pressure needed to remove

http://www.machinistsworkshop.net/

G'day Ian et al,

Well, I just had to try it.

For the first test I had two identical engines (Honda Gxx) both had been subjected to flood water at the same time some years ago and were literally FULL of water when I got them home. I filled the first one to the brim with kerosene/oil mix. This was 6 weeks ago. The other I didn't do anything with until this weekend just gone when I tried the magic brew.

I had been gently working the kero oil machine over the past weeks and it finally freed up last Wednesday (5 and a half weeks). The ATF machine had freed up in a few hours!!

The other one I've tried is using it to free up a stubborn exhaust joint at work. For this we normally get out the Wurths Rost off. It's the best we've found for this. The ATF mix attempt took no time at all!

I'm not suggesting this is conclusive proof- far from it - but it is compelling and I will be trying it more.

I do have a couple of questions and observations however.
1. Why acetone? Would ATF and kero work just as well?
2. In hot weather will the acetone evaporate too quickly leaving just ATF? Your from Townsville, Ian, how do you find it?
3. I'm a little wary of getting the mix on enamel or acrylic paint as the acetone will soften it?

But all in all, I'm excited! For my next investigation the Hondas that I freed up are both attached to similar ride-ons (yes, dear readers, they're Geenies ) both of which are v rusty and both of which will be dismantled. One has been given WD40 to soak in and the other the brew. I'll let y'all know how it goes.

Thanks for the tip Ian.

Cheers,

I believe acetone is used because it has such a thin viscosity and carries the ATF (which it thins) deep into the seized pieces. I too would be careful not to get it on any surface you are attached to as both the acetone and ATF are best kept off paint etc.
Keep us posted on your experiments.

Well, no. Solvents are characterised by their 'polar' properties, e.g. hydrocarbons [the major components of ATF] are essentially non-polar, and water is very polar. Acetone is fairly polar, but will still mix with ATF, and will wet 'polar' surfaces. It will also act as a 'coupling solvent' in this case, and help absorb any free water that's around into the fluid. Pretty much. You could try a less volatile solvent in the ketone class, e.g. MIBK [PVC pipe jointing primer - not the glue].
Yes, it most certainly will.

G'day Gadge and readers all,

Gadge, way too long since I did yr12 chemistry - and I wasn't real good at it anyway. I was going to ask you to clarify on the polar properties of solvents but I'll ask Google first. Might come back if I get stuck.

I was thinking more in terms of viscosity like slash but obviously there is more to it than that.

Cheers,

Gadge, you seem quite well informed! I'm completely lost, would you mind dumbing it down a shade for those of us not quite up to pace? I drew the assumption that PVC glue primer was pretty much acetone by the smell. Does this mean that the acetone in the mix just thins the ATF and carries it into the rusted bits and then evaporates leaving just ATF, being a thin oil?

G'day slashnburn,
The acetone performs two functions in the mix.

One is, as you say, to 'thin' the mix [i.e. reduce the viscosity] to make it penetrate better.
The other is to allow the mix to 'wet' metal surfaces that are already wetted with water. That's where 'polarity' comes into play.

You know how oil will just roll off any water-wet surface? The acetone is there to prevent that. Straight hydrocarbons, like kero, won't do it.

The MIBK [Methyl Isobutyl Ketone] in PVC primer [the glue is thickened with PVC, so it's not what you need here] is a close chemical relation to acetone [aka Dimethyl Ketone], but it's much less volatile [Boiling Point 118 �C as against 56 �C], though not as good for dewatering. So it can work more better in hot climates, as it doesn't evaporate before it can do its job.

Just as an aside, I use a home-brew solvent mix [called 'Ed's Red'; an update of a US Army Frankford Arsenal formula from the 1920's] for firearm bore cleaning, that's equal volumes ATF, Acetone, Mineral Turps and Kero. Still penetrates quite well, and shifts crud very well. At a lot lower cost than the commercial products.

Thanks Gadge. Do you find that your "Ed's Red" is better than the ATF and Acetone mix for loosening rusted or seized bits?

G'day slashnburn,
Well, I wouldn't really expect it to be as good at penetrating as the ATF/Acetone mix, but as I keep a litre or so on hand, it's easier to just use it.

Thanks Gadge.