OutdoorKing Repair Forum Forums Restoring, Customising and Modifying Victa Walk-Behind Rotary Mowers Victa Rotomo - Model 2

Hi All,
I purchased this today.
I think its a model 1 Rotomo, would anyone be able to tell me the year it was made and what parts are correct/incorrect?

The numbers are 1 2727

It is seized.
What would be the best way to get it free

Thanks
Scott

Well by the engine number it is a Model 2 not a 1.Although it does look to have a model 1 throttle control on it.Also I think I see a cigar fuel tap on there as well.Year would be 1956-57.As far as an easy way to un-seize an engine....sorry you'll just have to pull it apart to see what has seized up.No easy way to free it up.really best just to find out why.

Thanks Blumbly, much appreciated.

Yes it does have the cigar fuel tap.

Is 12727 the build number? As in the 12727th Victa produced?

Cheers
Scott

What a little beauty Scott! Early To Mid 1956...Shes A very early Model 2 running the model 1 chassis. Every thing I can see appears accurate. You will need smily face choke (red Victa print) Model 2 Badge with 18" (both digits exact height),metal cap and fuel tap(this one is accurate Rotomo,but is for a later version). Thats it!

I Would need to see the engine parts stripped in order to determine accurately the barrel and head style,to see if these parts also carried over from the model 1 as well as the chassis.

Its my opinoin this is factory correct,as alot of the early models around the transition between model 1 and 2 often got leftover parts from the Model 1. This is especially common of the brass nut carby,barrel,head assy and chassis.

Chassis model 1
Throttle model 1
Barrel and head (unsure at this stage)
Carby Model 2
Engine model 2
Muffler model 2
Fuel Tap Model 2(late) Model 2a,Model 4 Automatic.
Top hat (unsure as I cant see the Images,if the chamfer on the top edge is barely visible its a model 1,if its prominent,then model 2.
Can clarify the unsures with better images

An Awesome little Rotomo Scott,Id dearly love this one...Well scored.

No its the 12,000TH "Rotomo" Produced Not the 12,000 victa..But a very early example none the less.

*Additional*

Because of its very early number,there is also the possibilty of it having the model 1 badge. Your choice As it could never be proved since its missing.

Thanks alot for that.

Its definitely going to get restored.
Iv got the metal fuel cap, so thats one think to check off the list.

Cheers
Scott

This is where im at with the engine.

Engine is off the frame.

Got the head off, broke a few bolts.

Got the cylinder free.

The pistion is seized. Looks like water has been sitting in the cylinder.
Iv tried tapping it with a lump of wood, and am now soaking the piston in engine oil.

Anyone have any advice?

Cheers
Scott

Two Choices...Scrap it! OR Cut the piston out and see if the barrel is salvagable. I highly doubt youll get this one free,as the Piston will be as good as welded to the barrel. If its a Model 2 barrel you shouldnt have any trouble getting another. If its a Model 1,then you will need to try and save the barrel,as they are harder to get.

Get the barrel loose and see how much damage is done to the internals of the crank case from the water,they may be corroded as well. If they are good id get another barrel,rebore and piston kit and start fresh. Spilt the crankcase and take remove the halves from the crank and put them aside so you can work on removing the piston without damage to the "Important" Casing.

I never asked,is there a Victa" stamping on the front of this Engine?

Nope no victa stamping.

From what I can see, the crankcase is in good shape.

So if I split the crankcase, I can remove the Conrod from the crankcase and then just have the barrel, Conrod, and piston together?

I'm all new to this, have never opened a crankcase before, but there's a first time for everything!

Off to read the victa manual...

Cheer
Scott

As blue has said if it is a model 2 cylinder than I'd just save the conrod and then you can go from that.If it is a model 1 there is only one way that I know to get it free.Now I can't think of the name of it but there is a mild acid that has to be mixed with water and pour it into the cylinder.Within one to four hours depending on the strength of the acid it will completely remove the rust and allow the piston to be free.Just beware that any acid is dangerous so please take extra care.You might be able to google this.I did it a very long time ago,but I can't remember what the acid was called.
If your not sure as to which model cylinder it is take some pictures from the top as if you were standing over the mower.As well as on an angel from the head side back to the crankcase allowing the fins to be seen,paying particular attention to the smaller fins near the crankcase.Very easy to tell the difference if you know what your looking for.

I'll take some pics tomorrow.

I think what you are talking about is called a "Pickle Bath".

I'll look into it. Seem like a good idea for this situation.

Thanks all!

Cheers
Scott

Agreed Blumbly. There are many Time consuming proceses you can try,but youll never save this piston. The main task here is saving the barrel.

No Victa" Stamping indicates a model 1 crankcase. On the exhaust side of the model 2 barrel you will see the fins are more squarish with a slight radius,at the ends. The model 1 Barrel will have rounded and more prominent curves at the ends and possibly a much rougher daggy overall casting. But given its low number and the use of the model 1 Crankcase id say its a Model 1. So try and save it.

And yes undo the 4 nuts holding the barrel to the C/Case. Hopefully the crank is not too siezed. Pull the barrel away gently from the studs,then split the crankcase. You may need to use a puller,and make sure your blade boss is off. Then you can bash and bang away until your hearts content.

Best of luck Scott,but as I said make sure it's worth the time and effort.Make sure it is a model 1 cylinder.As really model 2's are still easy enough to come by.

Thanks all.
I really appreciate the advice.

Will keep you guys posted on how I go.

Hi All,

Here is the head and cylinder.
No luck trying to twist the the cylinder and hope the cylinder will come free, just started to twist the conrod

Can you buy new conrods for this engine.
Iv seen new victa 18 pistons on ebay and all around the place, will these fit this engine?

Tryed to seperate the 2 halves of the crank case, it is loose but will not serpeate.
Whats the go?

Here are the pictures.

Cheers
Scott

you took out the barrel studs ? or tried with the still in , double nuts if there is room or studs will hold the cases together . remove the studs and it should come apart the bolts that hold cases together i think are only studs too , if same as later 18s ? maybe corroded around them so be really carefull not to break the case with numbers !

Im confused...Ok,So the crankshaft is turning? You pulled the barrel up over the studs yes? Your not trying to turn the piston in the barrel,you will damage the conrod,your just trying to get the barrel free from the crankcase Just relift the barrel over the studs. Remove the 4 crank case bolts completely. Remove the blade boss and seperate the 2 halves. BUT. You need to take the flywheel off,coil plate cam and blade boss or your wasting your time,and risking damage to other parts. Clear everything away.
The images show me that the barrel is definately a model 1 as is the head(full model 1 engine) You now need to be very careful as parts dont come easy.. Your main aim is to get it apart without damaging anything but the piston. Just do it step by step and ask questions whenever you like:) read the process in the victa book,should be pretty much the same as the steps for the later 125. And NO the conrod isnt readily available,and rarely sold seperatley from a complete engine.

Thanks guys.

Will completely strip it down as you said.

Is the piston the same as a standard victa 18 piston?

Cheers
Scott

Yes it is. Your going to need to rebore this barrel,providing its not out of specs,and if you can get it apart. This is definately not a general rule,But EVERY Rotomo Ive restored has been of STD size(Very Unusual,but true). So hopeflly the odds are good and youll have room for resize. Pistons and rings are still available in Std,020,040 and 060. Check the "ODK" Website for parts.

Good to hear.

From what I see in the victa manual, it's a fairley big job to remove the Conrod from the crank.
Looks like I need a press, and a few different victa tools.

The pully also has ESS 4 wirtten on it.

Scott you are a lucky bugger yes that is (As Blue said) a model 1 cylinder and head.Bugger even I don't have a model 1 head yet,(My one must have been changed).Now I'm not sure how bad the rust is to,as to whether you will need to re-bore or not.Your best chance will be the acid I was telling you about. I'll have a look and see if I can find out what that acid was.It's basically is a de-oxidiser that basically just eats the rust.I think that is the best way that won't do any-more damage.You'll hear story's about soaking in oil and maybe even oil and diesel mixed together.Don't bother that's just one of those myths that just doesn't work.Tried it was just a waste of time.Might work on some things but not a stuck piston.Just try the best way without any-more damage than what has already been done.As that one is worth trying to save.Take the long road not the quick easy way as that may not work.Best of luck.Keep us posted.

Yes the pully Will be ESS. This is the first of the ESS Casting companies products used by Victa",They supplied right through into the sheerline,and possibly beyond with pullies,carbies and a few other parts.
Anyways...You DO NOT wannt to pull the conrod from the crank. The aim is to get the piston out of the barrel,no more no less,using any means possible.
Destroy the piston,drill it out,press it out,bore it or die grind it,Acid...Heat the barrel to loosen and shock the rust(just not to hot) And let it cool naturally,as its Cast Iron and may crack or distort. Whatever means you can. it will come out and its the least expensive part to sacrifice and easily replaced...

Thanks mate.
I'm really keen to restore this mower, have been into the old victas for a while now, this is by far the nicest I have scored. I'm only 17 and keen to learn as much as I can.
Have found this a great forum.

Will pickup some acid and give it a shot, have already tried soaking it in oil, the fuel and automatic transmission fluid but to no avail.

Once this motor is sorted, just have to weld up a few cracks in the base.

Bloke I bought the mower off was selling it as a garden ornament.....
I just had to save it knowing it was a rotomo.

Cheers
Scott

Thanks for clearing that up.
I will be trying the acid method next.

Cheers
Scott

BTW. Molasses is a great rust remover. Cheap as chips too.

Be very careful with ALL the acids,Especially when Combined withh ALLOY parts... Ive used most types and while they all have different effects,they are quite potent when put with alloy.

Mild sulphuric and hydrocloric acid are quite dangerous but very effective if mixed correctly. However they produce a very reactive action and emit Hydrogen gas,So if you use this method make sure its done outside and with respiratory protection. This will clean the rust and react with the alloy,dissolving the piston..BUT again its very dangerous and Id Really NOT recommend its use lighlty.

RECOMMENDED-Phosphoric( usually called alluminium cleaner) Acid is also good,less reaction and a much slower and gentler process. This acid I use in fuel tanks as it cleans the rust and slightly etches at the same time,so it does not promote surface rust as quickly.
Molasses" as Rusty Says is also good,Slower But SAFER.

Another method is an alkaline as it eats through grease/oil and other crap. It doesnt do much for rust but it will dissolve the piston. Again a strong chemical reaction occurs and caution is required.

Ive used all the above chemicals many times,they are effective when used correctly and by experts. Please use extreme caution if you choose this path. My own course of action for your dilema would be heat and re heat to shock,then a press. Just my own preference. And SAFER.:)
Good luck and Safety First".

Where in sydney are you from Scott? And 17....Great to see the younger generation taking an interest,spoke to another recently a little bit older and also very keen. Awesome!

Thanks mate.
Yep saftey is first.

I'm from the hawkesbury area.

I have heard about people using mollasses. May be my best bet.

Cheers
Scott

Done some research for you not sure if this is the same stuff I used years ago but this ones main use it for rust.
Oxalic Acid
Oxalic acid's main applications include cleaning or bleaching, especially for the removal of rust (iron complexing agent, e.g. Bar Keepers Friend is an example of a household cleaner containing oxalic acid. Its utility in rust removal agents is due to its forming a stable, water soluble salt with ferric iron, ferrioxalate ion.

Toxicity and safety

Oxalic acid has toxic effects through contact and if ingested; manufacturers provide details in Material Safety Data Sheets (MSDS). It is not identified as mutagenic or carcinogenic; there is a possible risk of congenital malformation in the foetus; may be harmful if inhaled, and extremely destructive to tissue of mucous membranes and upper respiratory tract; harmful if swallowed and causes burns; harmful, destructive of tissue and causes burns if absorbed through skin or in contact with the eyes. Symptoms and effects include burning sensation, cough, wheezing, laryngitis, shortness of breath, spasm, inflammation and oedema of the larynx, inflammation and oedema of the bronchi, pneumonitis, pulmonary oedema.[15]
In humans, ingested oxalic acid has an oral LDLo (lowest published lethal dose) of 600 mg/kg.[16][dead link] It has been reported that the lethal oral dose is 15 to 30 grams.[17]
The toxicity of oxalic acid is due to kidney failure, which arises because it causes precipitation of solid calcium oxalate,[18] the main component of kidney stones. Oxalic acid can also cause joint pain due to the formation of similar precipitates in the joints. Ingestion of ethylene glycol results in oxalic acid as a metabolite which can also cause acute kidney failure.

Just remember the safety side of it.It is an acid and just treat it with the greatest of respect and it will do this job for you.
I've also been reading a lot about vinegar for rust removal,but I don't think that will help at this point maybe a bit to far gone for vinegar to help now.
Hope this helps you out.