OutdoorKing Repair Forum Forums Repairs and Maintenance Questions On Ride On Mowers Questions on Greenfield Ride On Mower Frames Greenfield pulley drive separation

Hi folks

I have removed the rear shaft from the ride on which contains the two drive pulleys and the floating clutch assembly in the centre.

How do I remove the two alloy drive wheels from the shaft?\

I have removed everything else except one retaining bolt from the drive side. The retaining bolt from the opposite side is off but I dont want to force anything and damage the bearings as they seem to run very smoothly.

I can see the outer edge of the clutch assembly cork clutches. The outer edge still seems to have quite a bit of meat left in them. Do these clutches wear predominantly from the centre?

I have new clutches I just need to purchase the adhesive and obviously separate them too!

There seems to be the remnants of fibre washers between the retaining bolts and the outer edge of the drive pulleys.

Finally the small sprocket sits on the shaft with a keyway and there is provision for a grub screw which wasn't there. Are they really necessary as it seems the chain holds it inline?

Thanks

I think your Greenfield is similar to this one:
https://www.outdoorking-forum.com.au/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=20076&page=1

Deadly Dave and Murray set out the process in quite a lot of detail in that thread. They can probably help - I may even be able to myself, if the questions are easy enough. I suggest you post some pictures as you go along, both to clarify what you are doing, and to help other people later.

And the sprocket retaining screw is essential. If you don't have it the chain will be damaged when the sprocket walks sideways in the outboard direction. Unless it is very tight on the shaft, in a surprisingly short time it will damage the chain enough to allow the sprocket to fall off.

Thanks Grumpy for that link. Very informative. Mine is a slightly different model. It is a Tractor 11VE and my guess is it is an older model.

Basically where the brocken shaft is in the links is where I am trying to separate.

I too found things much much easier after I sprayed bolts with Inox a couple of days ago. That stuff is gold especially for the little grub screws in the bearing retainers.

Hurcules stripped back


Just a quick picture of the rear sprocket with the slightly swept over teeth from wear


The rear drive assembley with all bolts removed. Can't figure if that drive pulley needs a bit of heavy handed action to be removed. I don't think it screws on in any way??


A bit closer


close up with the thread in view


Just a close up of the cork clutch. Still seems to have a bit of beef left but haven't obviously seen the full face.


Thanks

My guess is it works the same way as Deadly Dave's, aldot: you need to unscrew that lock ring, then the two drive plates and clutches can slide sideways off the square that is driving them. I think your shaft is probably similar to Dave's, but they used lock rings instead of hexagonal nuts to retain the clutches. Is there a thread protruding slightly on the other side of the clutches as well as the one you have shown? That would make it even more likely your shaft design is the same as Dave's. If so, you might be able to use nuts when you reassemble it.

Grumpy I have removed the bolt from that side. It has the same bolt as Daves has but I cannot get that wheel off. Do I need to force it or use a puller etc? Perhaps there is some corrosion in there holding it on?

Pic of the ride on model, just for future reference

The clutches have to have a way to drive the shaft, so there is either a spline or a square running through the clutch parts. The square is cheaper, the spline is better; since 1930s Bugattis, cars have just about always used splines (some old Bugattis used a square shaft through the clutch, and it was a lousy idea). It is common in high torque situations that the shaft wears a bit so that eventually the clutch parts will not easily slide sideways: a step forms at the boundary of the normal running position. Also, there may be some fretting corrosion, which packs the clearance and makes the clutch parts a tight fit on the shaft, despite their wear. However in your case, I do not see how anything can come apart until you unscrew whatever is being held by the thread you showed in your photo. You haven't shown us the other side of the clutches, so we can see if there is a thread there too. Meanwhile, I think it would be a terrible idea to use force to separate parts that are probably being held in position by a screwed-on locking collar.

Hi Grumpy. After a long inspection and a touch of marine Inox I realised there was no locking tab of any sort. The gentlest of taps when set up in this fashion saw the thing come apart very nicely. Just a hammer and a block of wood set up in my saw horses, I wasn't fussed on using a vice for alloy pieces. (the nut on top was obviously removed!!)



The whole assembly came apart nicely revealing the cork pads in a still serviceable condition.



I inspected the square drive that the centre hubs drives on and it was completely free of any burs or wear as was the internals of the drive wheels. Pretty happy with that.



Just a smidge of graphite powder applied to the cork pads as recommended by the service guys at a the local Greenfield agent to stop the small amount of squealing that you sometimes get.



I ended up reinstalling the most of the gear and Grumpy the new chain fits that sprocket very snug. I'm pretty rapt with that as I wasn't fussed on spending another $250. I just need to source a grub screw for the front sprocket and a new drive belt tension pully as the bearing in the old is slightly notchy.

aldot, just to clear this up for the benefit of people who read it later, am I right in guessing that one of the two nuts that screw onto the shaft to keep the opposite sides of the clutch pack and thrust bearing from walking sideways down the shaft, was missing, and this is why we couldn't find the nut in your pictures? In other words, your clutch set-up should be just about the same as Deadly Dave's? If I'm wrong, there seems to be a thread on the axle on one side of the clutch pack that doesn't do anything, and there is nothing to keep the clutch pack from moving sideways when you engage the clutch in that direction. Please clear this up for us. If I'm right, the pictures of your clutch job supplement the pictures of Dave's in the other thread, and give us a more complete story than either one by itself. And you need to get a nut and put it on, when you put that shaft back in the mower, or you'll have poor clutch performance in one direction (I don't know if it is forward or reverse that pushes the clutch in the direction toward the missing nut).

Are you going to put graphite on the square, to keep the clutch members from binding to the shaft? Do not put oil or grease there, but I think graphite would be OK - it won't form an abrasive slurry with dirt, the way liquid-based lubricants do.

Hi Grumpt. Yes mine is the same as Daves. In the first pictures I had removed the but and simply could not remove the drive plate. The set up on the saw horses saw it come apart with the slightest tap.

When I initially said mine differed to Daves was in relation to the mower model and access to the drive assembly.

The graphite powder was applied to the face of the cork pad. The initial reason I inspected the cork pad was due to a bit of squealing. I right they were home and I had alloy to alloy. The fellow from the service centre said a touch of graphite powder solves that.

They also recommended a very very fine smear of heavy molybednium(spelling??) something or other grease on the square shaft. Nothing too light as it with run off with centrifugal force.

We ended up at cross-purposes, aldot. Because there was a thread with no nut in your picture, I thought the inner part of the clutch plate was a retaining nut (there had to be something on that thread on the shaft, and you didn't mention having removed the nut) so I advised you not to hammer the clutch off the shaft while there was a retainer holding it on. The way you did it in the end (remove the retaining nut then support the clutch plate on both sides, close in to the shaft, and give the end of the shaft a light knock with a mallet) is the correct way to do it.

The sticking of the shaft in the clutch plate stems from the same problem mechanics traditionally have with the clutch plate driving spline in car gearboxes: it needs to be lubricated because the clutch plate has to move along the spline each time you declutch, or the clutch will bind and grate the gears when you shift them. However on the mower, the whole thing gets coated with dirt, and wet lubricant acts like a dirt magnet. The combination of dirt and oil makes a cutting compound quite similar to the stuff you use to lap valve seats. That is why I think I'd prefer dry graphite on your dirty clutch shaft, though I tolerate a smear of engine oil on car clutch shafts because they are enclosed and stay somewhat cleaner (they only get coated with dust from the clutch plate).

One thing I have noticed on reassembly is when you tighten the outer nuts which hold the clutch and drive assembly, there is not a much play between the clutch and drive wheels as there was originally.

I wonder if there is a need to replace the inner washers as they have now crushed and are a single use type of washer.

If the washers are crushable, there is probably a specified way to tighten the nuts. Most likely there is a particular amount of free travel of the clutch fork. If there isn't it seems like there should be.

I suppose you'll have to see what the pedal feels like. You may prefer less free movement, or you may not. However I suggest you make sure there is a reasonable amount of clearance - you would not want to have to pull the shaft out again without a good reason. Presumably you could put additional plain washers into the stack, or replace the original crushable washers, if it looks a bit marginal.

Bear in mind that crushable washers, when they are used, have a purpose. Usually the purpose is to ensure that there is sufficient force on the clamping nut to keep it from coming loose. If you undo the clamping nut then do it up again without crushing the washer further, there will be less clamping force than there is supposed to be, and the clamping nut is at risk of coming loose in service. The only correct procedure is to replace the crushable washer each time you dismantle the component. Those of us who are cheapskates sometimes examine the washer to verify that it has room to crush further, then pack it up with plain washers so that it can be returned to the original overall dimension while crushing the washer further so as to get enough clamping force.

When I replaced the corks on my clutch discs, I found that the two nuts that hold the clutch pack together had some kind of loctite on them to keep them in position.

When I re-assembled the clutch pack, I used a medium strength loctite on the threads of the nuts.
I want to be able to re-adjust the clutch pack in the future.

As far as adjustment of the clutch packs, I also found that if you do the nuts up tight, there is no free play for the clutch plates to work. You then need to back the nuts off a bit to give you enough play for the clutch plates to travel.

I still have a bit to much pedal travel and need to re-adjust mine a bit more.
This can be done in the mower and does not require you to remove the whole assembly to do it.

I did check the pedal travel on the new Greenfield mowers and found they have very little travel in the pedal for forward and reverse.

As there are no maintenance manuals that explain the correct procedure for this job, this is the method I used. This comes from my experience as a maintenance fitter.
I'm not saying this is the correct procedure or how it was done from factory but it works for me.
The mower is going great and except for a little more pedal travel then I would like, the mower is going great.

Murray, it sounds as if the clearance between friction material (clutch lining) and drive plate has to be just right for the clutch to feel right and work properly. The parts list doesn't seem to include a washer that looks especially crushable, but there is a shim (item 20, part number GT541) in between the clutches, along with a pair of light springs. I'm not clear on why you would use shims if the whole stack of parts is spring-loaded - I'm missing something in how that central stack works. It would be nice to know what the clutch plate clearance should be, to get the same pedal movement and feel as on a new mower. You could probably find out by using a feeler gauge on a new mower - from underneath, putting the gauge between the friction material and the clutch plate on one side. Since it is a sliding stack, the other clutch would have zero clearance when you did this. Alternatively you could just adjust the nuts until the pedal feels like a new mower, then measure the clearance for future reference. I don't like the sound of using thread sealing compound to hold the adjustment stable, but it might perhaps have been the original arrangement - a Greenfield dealer would know.

Thanks fellas. Once I installed the drive assembly back into the mower and connected the pedal and actually used the pedal it seemed to have "moved" everything back into position and it all seems to be working as it should. I guess loading up the clutches by hand and then using the mechanical advantage of the pedals is two different things.

It does seem to be working as before now. I adjusted up the nut holding the entire drive wheel and clutch pack once I had a play with the foot pedal. Luckily it is something which can be done once it is fully installed into the mower as previously mentioned by Murray.

Whilst I was in the Greenfield agents shop picking up the new drive belt tensioner pulley he said a bit of low to med strength Loctite wouldn't go astray. I also picked up half a dozen shims incase I want to adjust the pedal to suit.

After assembling the drive shaft and new chain I typically thought I would check the other pulleys now that they were difficult to get to. Turns out they all had rough spots so I took everything apart again and though I'll just replace all the pulleys. Hopefully the new motor turns up tomorrow to keep me well and truly busy for the rest of the week after work. At least the belts are in good nick as is the main blade carrier spindle!!

Aldot
Mate I just finished the same job on my old and beaten 13-32. I bought it from the coast and every bearing, cog, nut, bolt and wheel i had to pull off was siezed on. Absolute nightmare. Anyhow last night i got here back together and ready to mow tommorow. Your photos were a great help. I actually tracked down my Dads old manual for future reference this morning.
I put some new blades on and noticed the Blade spindle where the blades attach are not straight but bent up. all 4 seem to be bent.
Don't know if this is standard or if he has hit something(HARD) to bend them up a bit. The blades went on OK and seem to be sitting level?? Any ideas.
My old 11hp 28" cut has a much smaller spindle but the mounts are flat...
Also any tips to getting the back wheels off. I got the drive cog side off but the RH side is absolutely stuck and no amount of swearing or beerdrinking seems to be able to shift it.
Thanks in advance and go the Greenfields.

I've attached the picture of the blade plate from the Greenfield 12-32 parts list. If the tips of the plate, where the blades attach, are bent up I'm guessing that will be due to past mishaps such as mowing water pipes. It may be a fairly common thing to happen.

On the 12-32 the wheels are mounted on axle clamps. The axle clamps are driven by Woodruff keys. If yours is the same, it sounds as if you have some serious corrosion involving the axle, the clamp and the key having turned themselves into one large lump. Some penetrating oil (left on it at least overnight, maybe longer) is likely to be the main part of the solution, followed by removing the clamp bolt completely and driving a wedge into the slot so that the clamp expands a bit and breaks free of the axle and key. Don't get carried away with the distance you drive the wedge in or you may damage the clamp, but minor deformation can be corrected by squeezing it in a vice after it's off and cleaned up.

On my Greenfield 12-32, the rear wheels are mounted to the hubs by 3 studs and wheel nuts.
The axle also goes through the centre of the wheel rim.
If the wheels have not been removed for some time, they can seem to get stuck in place.
I have in the past just loosened the wheel nuts off and given the wheel a bit of gentle persuasion to get them off.
The wheel hubs are attached to the axle using the spilt clamp method and a woodruff key.
You shouldn't have to remove the hub to get the wheel off.

As for the blade plate, yes it should be flat. If the ends are bent up, you should check for any possible cracks or further damage to the ends.
You could try to straighten them out but my recommendation would be to try a get a good replacement.
The last thing you want is for a blade to come off while the mower is in use.

I have just scrolled up this tread and have seen a picture of your Greenfield.
Yours is an earlier type with the single centre nut or bolt holding the wheel to the axle.
This is a similar method as the MTD/White mower I had.

With this mower, I had to apply heat to the wheel rim hub and I used a puller with two bolts through the wheel rim.
Your wheel rim doesn't have the two holes in it like mine had though.
The MTD axles are parallel with two flats milles on the end to stop the wheels fron rotating on the axle.

I haven't worked on a Greenfield like yours but would imagine it to be similar to the MTD setup.
Maybe a photo of the side you have already removed might give us a little bit more info to go by.

I had a look at the Greenfield Anniversary 8 & 11 Manual.
Here is a picture from the manual of the rear axle assmebly.
Is it the same as yours?

If it is, as in my last post, some gentle heat on the wheel hub and some gentle persuasion will aid to get it off.

Serious corrusion indeed. I have put heaps of inox on it and still no budging it. I have applied some heat around the rim near the axle but am a bit hesitant. I will continue the task after i control the grass.
The photo of the disc says it all.
I suspect the previous owner was a bit of a shall we say a careless driver and has collected something...
There are no cracks in the metal...I would shutter to think what a new blade plate would cost. I am in rough terrain so i only use 2 blades, i will try and straighten 2 and see how it cuts. There is still heaps of meat on the metal so blades won't come off.
Cheers for the help guys i will check it out soon and let you know the results.

Murray
My wheel is as you say single centre nut. With a keyway hidden inside.
I actually do have 2 holes in the rim but being an alloy i am very tentative about using a pulley on it??????? I did think of it but for once I decided it may not be such a good idea...
Everything on this mower has been a task, i don't need to get the rim off it is more of a maintenance thing while it is in the shed, BUT it has taken on more of a meaning now and it is my mission in life to get it off....

The one in Murray's diagram is quite different from the 12-32 I was describing. It appears yours does not have detachable wheels - the one in the manual on this site does have detachable wheels, and I was telling you how to get the hub off after you took the wheel off. Yours seems to be like Aldot's, shown earlier in this thread.

Your hub is on a short taper, as Murray's diagram shows. I do not see a way to use a puller on it - certainly not a leg-type puller. I suggest asking a Greenfield dealer how he/she gets them off. Heat is not especially effective with tapers, especially when you are likely to cook your tyre and tube. It needs an axial force combined with an impact. Because the taper is short and steep, it is probably quite easy to remove with the right technique, but without seeing the available space behind the wheel, I can't guess what that is.

Hi Beerpig, I can tell you that for my model, Tractor 11VE 28inch cut that the blade carrier is $135.Different to yours though. Mine is a square plate and yours has the scalloped sides which is similar to the latest models.

Got mine running today and cut a smidge of grass with it. Good to get the beast moving again. All up I replaced the four belt idler pulleys, drive belt tensioner pulley. Replaced all wiring, made a dodgy battery base and battery clamp, replaced the chain, replaced the engine, replaced as many of the imperial bolts as I could with metric and put on some new blades.

About the only thing I can fault is the pedal has a smidge too much travel. I have some new shims for the clutch which I'll fiddle with on the weekend.

I think the front tyres might be a smidge wider than the originals as they foul against the chassis on full lock even though it has steering stops.

Well i had another inspection of the spindle and there were no cracks etc etc so i decided to give it a trial.
From my last 11HP 28" cut this thing mows unbelievable.
The cut seems nice and flat, I had to adjust the trim about 5 mm to one side but so much quicker and the turning circle is a massive improvement on my old model.
Very happy with it.
I have to go to the greenfield shop tomorrow so i will enquire about how to get that wheel off. The one side was quiet easy but the RH side is definitely stuck..As you suggest Grumpy there will be an easy way!!!Unfortunately this is normally the last way I try...Ha ha.
I will price a new blad carrier also.
Aldot, I have a similar problem with a bit too much travel between F and R but I can live with it..Now just a matter of fine tuning and maintenance.......
Cheers all

Beerpig, so far as the blade plate is concerned, can't you just bend the ends of the plate down with large shifting spanners? Of course you'd have to bend two opposite sides of the plate at the same time, so you wouldn't bend the center spindle.

With regard to removing the right rear wheel, I think I know how I'd do it, but there is probably a better way so I haven't suggested it. (I think I'd make a flat plate puller out of 3/8" or 1/2" steel plate, drilling four holes in it on a pitch circle diameter just big enough to give a useful clearance around the wheel hub, then I'd use that puller as a template to drill four matching holes in each wheel disk. Then I'd run a bolt through each of the holes, from the flat plate through the wheel, with the center of the plate resting on the end of the axle shaft. I'd put a nut on each bolt on the back of the wheel. Then I'd tighten the four bolts evenly, until they were applying a fair amount of force on the end of the axle shaft, pulling on the hub. Then I'd tap right in the center of the flat plate, directly over the axle shaft, with a hammer.) If the dealer has a better way to do it, please post it here, so it will be in our archive for the next person with a similar problem to solve.

Grumpy
I actaully did straighten the tips a little, but thought i better not say it incase someone frowned upon my backyard techniques..ha ha.
My wheel has 2 holes in the back rim already so i figure Greenfield probably have a puller of some sort, as you sugested using threaded rod and nuts or similar.
Bit reluctant to pester the local dealer. The poor bugger was 6 foot under water last week in the flood. There is no stock on the floor at the moment but he is always very helpful...I think he knows i am saving for a new Greenfield. Ha ha
Will let you know my results.

If there are holes in the wheels, opposite each other and close in near the hubs, I think we can make a very good guess at how people pull them off. I'd rather have four holes to reduce the risk of deforming the wheels, but obviously it is much easier to make a two bolt flat plate puller than a four bolt one. You just need a piece of 2.5"x0.5" steel long enough to span the two holes in the wheel, drill holes in it to match the ones in the wheel, grab a couple of bolts or pieces of threaded rod, and it's all over. However if the holes in the wheel are far, far apart (more than 6") you would need to reconsider the dimensions of the flat plate. Remember, thicker is far more effective than wider.

My concern about using a puller would be if the key on the axle has worn a grove in the wheel from the constant forward and reversing action of general usage. That would mean there is some slop in the wheel on the shaft causing slight forward and backward play. This would then mean you would have to hope the wheel is jammed on and by coincidence the keyway is aligned in its original position to allow easy removal with a puller otherwise you'll do some serious damage. Sounds confusing.

The key is about 2" long and the LH wheel has no shows of wear so i am guessing nothing to sinister in there apart from corrosion.
Serious damage is a definite possibility but i am going to make up a 2 leg pulley as Grumpy sugested and give it a crack tonight. If that doesn't work out comes the angle grinder.....ha ha