OutdoorKing Repair Forum Forums Repairs and Maintenance Questions on Engines Questions On Victa Two Stroke Engines Victa 160cc 1973 - Oil Seal Guard Washer

Afternoon

Any thoughts on how the oil seal guard washer on a 73 160 is meant to be held in-place?

Seems to be rather a loose fit and can't find any other references.

thanks

Hi MarkN, I imagine it is merely knocked in with a hammer and drift (piece of pipe). Someone here will know. I'd like to find out as well as I have an early 80s self propelled that won't start because of a suspected seal.

thanks Mowerfreak

Thought so, as well, maybe there has been some wear on the washer and/or housing lip over time.

Attached 2 more close-ups for further comment

Hi Mark,

The last one I did I used a drift and hammer. I don�t recall seeing any additional holes on the washer like the ones in your images though.

G'day Victa enthusiasts.

In the day, seal protectors were a great idea on the Victas.
They were aluminium alloy and required a transitional fit to hold them in place.

It was common practice to fit seal protectors to full-crank Victa engines.
If loose, the seal protector was replaced. End of story.

Cheers
-----------------------
Jack

Hello CyberJack.
That term transitional fit you used made me learn about allowances in engineering speak. The three categories are clearance fit, where movement is permissible, interference fit, where a part is pressed into another by force resulting in them binding together through tension, and transitional fit where it can go either way, either a less severe interference fit or a very tenuous clearance fit.
I'd like to know how you remove this washer though.

Hello again

Thanks for the comments

After removing the tapered sleeve and a considerable amount of well oiled twine/string etc from the shaft, just used some sharp nose pliers in the two holes to loosen it.

It seemed to be tighter on the shaft rather than the housing, some 200 sandpaper cleaned up the shaft enough to pull it off. It could have been "attached" enough to the shaft that it was rotating within the lower crankcase housing.

Also, can anyone offer some clarification of the change in 1973/1974? from EN71131A/D Oil Seal Guard Washer to EN71408A Oil Seal Proctector?.

I also noted the change in the Crankcase Lower Half from EN70024A to EN71312A, I assume this "design"? change resulted in the Guard Washer to Proctector change. It would seem there was also an Oil Seal Guard Cup EN71130A in use with the Guard Washer, is this something I am missing that hold the Washer in place?


Any thoughts on these variations would be of interest.

thank you

G'day all,
Exactly - that's how it's supposed to operate. Its function is to prevent fibrous matter [or wire, etc] from getting wound around the shaft up against the seal itself.The first version of the seal protector setup used the Guard Cup outer part - which was a slight interference fit over the lower part of the lower crankcase half.
This was then dropped when the modified lower crankcase half was introduced; with an extension past the outer surface of the oil seal, which incorporated the recess with both axial and [tight] radial clearance around the Seal Protector.

In my family's 1970s Victa dealership, located in a rural town, a very commonly encountered problem with earlier Victas was bottom seals destroyed by bits of hay band wound around the crankshaft.

Sometimes the damage was severe enough for the seal to have spun in the crankcase recess, such that a new seal wouldn't stay put.

In those cases, we'd do a 'oncer' repair by gluing a new seal in with 24-hr Araldite epoxy resin. We'd warn the owner to be sure to tidy up all hay band before mowing thereafter, because if the problem recurred, the only cure was a new bottom half crankcase!

I'm always finding fishing line, twine and sundry stems from various vegetation wound tightly around the shaft. I'm get concerned at the extra friction. It can be very fiddly to remove it all.

Thanks Gadge

To clarify, given the photos can you comment on whether I have the EN71131A/D Oil Seal Guard Washer and therfore I'm missing the Oil Seal Guard Cup EN71130A or , as I assume, have the modified lower crankcase EN71312A and EN71408A Oil Seal Proctector?

I did understand its purpose hence my interest in how it should be attached. Can you comment further on how this Oil Seal Proctector (washer) could be held in place? I don't know of a source for a "new" part.

I note your comment "with both axial and [tight] radial clearance around the Seal Protector", but can you clarify this for me in this case. Is this "washer" or the "recess" worn to the extent that it needs replacement or a spot of Araldite on the edge to hold it in place within the housing "recess" while still allowing the shaft to freely rotate, but with a tight fit?

At present it seems to be neither tight enough in the crankcase housing "recess" nor on the shaft and I would imagine work its way down to the top of the tapered sleeve leaving access to the shaft and seal?

Mowerfreak, it was very fiddly job to remove all the rubbish from around the shaft, oil/dirt/string etc make a good "glue", did resort to the hacksaw at one stage, too much of a challenge for the Stanley knife.

thanks again

Mark

Hi all ,
Just an observation on the 3rd pic down from the top of the page it looks like the wrong size seal .

I have seen this a few times where people install the later seal in the earlier motor.

There are two sizes see pic below,same outer size but inner size is different.

Cheers
Max.

Good pick up Max, not much chance of getting that one started, I did sort of notice it but I was mostly looking at the guard washer

Yes , no point trying to start mowers when you have badly leaking crank seals Norm, I would throw that crank washer in the bin and if I was
worried about running over fence wire etc, go cut the grass with a power torque mower.

Hi All

Thanks for pointing out the seal size error, just a novice not paying attention and also focusing too much on the guard washer/proctector.

I just choose a top 20mm seal and not a bottom 17mm one, probably another $2.87 wasted. Something to fix tomorrow, maybe.

thanks again

Mark

Yes Max, not much chance of damaging the bottom seal on a powertorque. Mark don't beat yourself up too much about the seal, you would have been far more frustrated if you had got it all back together and then could not get it started, then you have a real battle on your hands trying to fault find it

I remember a gent that used to buy old Victas off me from Ebay to do up and resell and he thought the "half crank" engines were an excellent design and said they were perfectly fine compared to the "full crank".
I used to like the distinct harmonious sound a near new powertorque used to make over a full crank. Only when they age they sound the same as a FC.

MF half crank is an excellent design, a lot of advantages over the FC's, FC's suffered a lot of changes over the years whereas the half cranks only suffered from plastic changes. Probably the best motor mower motor ever made, I won't say the best mower because that will upset BB because of the rusting bases and the single bolt on the handles

Late sixties to early seventies full cranks sound more energetic compared to later ones, no doubt about it.
Your average plastic carburettor domestic mower is a different animal over an average impulse starter mower. I have memories of our neighbours early 70s Corvette with metal float G3 and impulse start and it sounded sporty compared to our 1977 Waltons mower which had the same base and catcher BTW.
Although there was a slightly earlier Waltons mower I used with same base but with metal engine cover and G4 carby, which sounded as good as the aforementioned Corvette. Maybe they had the same barrel moulding. I heard Victa used four moulds at a time during 160' full crank engine production with some being minutely better than the others.

Found the attached Victa Servicing Guide relating to the topic.

Has anyone come across these items?

I had noted a description of some of the items in an early servicing guide.

Mark

G'day everyone,

I was just reading through this thread and I think I have the exact same style steel washer with 2 holes like the one pictured at the start of this thread on the bottom of my old 1971 Victa VC160 lawnmower.

I cleared out most of the string and rubbish from around the bottom shaft and that metal washer seal protector moves a little bit when pushed with a screwdriver.

I will probably also change out this bottom seal as it's leaking a bit. Are they much different to remove and fit when compared to the early 80's full crank engines? As I have changed the top and bottom seals on my 1982 full crank Commando and they weren't that hard to change.

So I guess for my early 70's VC160 full crank engine I need a 17mm seal for the bottom? And a 20mm seal for the top? They don't cost that much it's just i'm not sure how much work is involved to change them out when compared to the early 80's full crank engines?

Cheers!