I noticed a sign of the times today when there were eight customer's mowers outside a mower servicing shop and all had Briggs & Stratton motors bar one Hondah. With Briggs takeover of Victa and stupid Aussie consumers, Briggs have a virtual monopoly in Australia's domestic mower market, and it's owned by foreigners from the U.S. Their engines will become more and more disposable and cheaply built to last only a pre determined time, something U.S manufactures have become specialists at. It's all really sad -and boring.
Ahh, if only victa had kept producing the thumblatch catcher series, they would be in better shape today!
MF, you just have to get over it, these are the new throw away times, many years ago a wrist watch was a status symbol, now nobody wears a watch. In the fifties a motor mower was also a big investment and people kept them for years, nowadays nobody cares unless they have gone out and spent $1000 on a Honda, then they might look after it
Everything now is briggs or chonda - and they are just as bad as one another. The new briggs instart (electric start) or whatever its called doesn't even have a pull cord in case you forget to charge the battery.
What I can't understand is how people can be perfectly happy to buy something, use it for a while, then throw it away when it breaks and then repeat. We have had the same toaster for 10 years - when it wont stay down to toast, it gets opened up, the crumbs scraped out of the electromagnet latch, put back together and lasts another year before the issue reoccurs. Most people would just chuck it away the first time it happened.
Norm, funny you should mention wrist watches, recently I was questioned why I would still wear one when the time is on my mobile phone. I asked what the time was - he reached into his pocket, got his iphone out, pressed the button and said 2:36. I had worked it out in 2 seconds, simply by looking at my watch.
I agree with NormK as to it has gotten to throw away level. It is a lot to do with the attitude of today's users and owners. The "I don't time to wait for the repairs." is one of them. This is also because how cheap a manufacture is selling the equipment is the first place vs replacement parts cost.
As a shop we can't be paying over half the cost of value of the equipment for parts and then add any of our labor costs. I just did a simple valve replacement on a Briggs 130000 series Friday. Replace both valve, the exhaust valve guide, head gasket, and spark plug. This was just a patch up job as the engine should had been overhauled. It took nearly 4 hours as the replacement valves were too long (probably valve seat wear) and had to be filed to achieve to needed valve clearances along quick valve seat to face grinding for a good seal. I should have done the three angle valve seat job. Anyways I end only charging for two hours. One OEM valve, one aftermarket valve, OEM valve guide, aftermarket head gasket, and aftermarket spark plug. It still ran nearly half of the new replacement engine.
I even had customers trying to bring in parts that they brought off eBay or from another source and wanting me to install them for free. I just turn them around and send them on their merry way; actually their pissed off way.
On the subject of aftermarket parts. I check on the price on the intake valve that I had one hand since 2016. It costed me $3 back then and yesterday when I priced the valve it was $18 which is more then the Briggs OEM valve retail price. I just can not just paying $18 for a valve that costs me $9.80 from my Briggs distributor. Oh I did find it in an aftermarket for $5.63 apiece so I ordered 5 for stock plus the exhaust at $7.60 which Briggs is wanting $12. Also order 10 head gaskets too.
Now this year it seems that every distributor are signing contracts that prevents them from selling aftermarket parts for the Briggs equipment. Luckily there are still a few independent sellers out there that still the aftermarket parts that I use currently. For how that will last who knows.
Anyway I got 6 more years before I can sign up for government retirement checks. I definitely considering quitting the repair business then. Just too much of hassle just to get parts lately.
On the wrist watches I had give up on wearing on at work as I keep busting the crystal faces and couple tried cook my wrist on the metal bands. The same for rings as they are a hazard too.
With Briggs takeover of Victa and stupid Aussie consumers, Briggs have a virtual monopoly in Australia's domestic mower market, and it's owned by foreigners from the U.S. Their engines will become more and more disposable and cheaply built to last only a pre determined time, something U.S manufactures have become specialists at.
G'day Mowerfreak, Norm and Tyler I don't know where to start here. I apologise in advance...
The concept of throw-away consumer goods is so deeply embedded in the consume psyche now that I feel that nothing short of a revolution is needed to re-educate folks about the benefits of buying once - buying well. We are subjected to so much BS today.
Things are possible. Just look at the conversation about plastics. I better understand that issue now. Why would I buy a piece of corn or a banana wrapped in plastics? It makes no sense!
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many years ago a wrist watch was a status symbol, now nobody wears a watch. In the fifties a motor mower was also a big investment and people kept them for years, nowadays nobody cares
A great point Norm - but watches are still a status symbol - at least for expensive watches made and targeted to the wealthy.
But for all classes watches were once symbolic - in being 'passed down' through generations. I got Dad's watch and it would be regarded by collectors today as a 'cheapie'. I have bought one 'good' watch and that's it.
Watches no longer do it for me - with the BS surrounding watches at its highest. My reality is that a $10,000 watch may very well have the same movement as a $1,000 watch. The wannabe class hunters can go rot as far as I'm concerned. I have Dad's watch, an everyday watch, and a 'special' one. [Gallery]
Tyler, That was a great anecdote about wearing a watch / using a mobile.
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The new briggs instart (electric start) or whatever its called doesn't even have a pull cord in case you forget to charge the battery.
Tyler, OEMs were doing this half a century ago. Some lawnmower maker would specify a lower spec for their machine. In some cases it was for a genuine reason. I remember that some makers would not specify a back-up recoil starter for aesthetic or design reasons, wanting a low silhouette to accommodate a bonnet. In most cases, I guess it was to save a buck. Here, Briggs was the bit between two hard rocks - the mower makers and the consumers.
I wouldn't say this is an easy issue, but I have more empathy for OEMs and 'stupid Aussie consumers' now. The problem is bigger than both! ------------------------------------------------------- Jack
Hi Jack, a couple of nice watches there. The company my son works for in NZ had a watch company next door( can't remember what watch it was but one of the well known ones) and they were busting at the seams due to expansion and they wanted the watch factory next door. The watch company wasn't moving and when I suggested to my son, they can't be busy, nobody buys watches these days. His reply was that they were flat out all the time, some things you can never understand.
It was nice to see one power torque out of six today, albeit on a utility base. The other five mowers which were rear catcher type, hincluded a Victa V40 Chonda, one Honda and three Briggs. Nice to see a two stroke of any kind today.
Ahh, if only victa had kept producing the thumblatch catcher series, they would be in better shape today!
I've been happily using dad's hand me down 50th anniversary Victa 2 stroke for years, quad blade does a good job and when it's time to scalp the Buffalo early spring it doesn't exactly lack grunt ! I suppose its the mixing of fuel, or getting it wrong, the cost of 2 stroke oil, a bit of smell etc all ads up to too much hassle for a lot of people these days. I think the 2 strokes are being phased out due to not complying with new emission standards also. Victa did a limited final production run of the 2 strokes which looked pretty much the same as the model I have been using and in some of their classic chassis colours. I'm still seeing a few for sale in the mower shops and at about $540, is a pretty fair investment for something, if looked after, would last an awful long time.
Hi wce, under that plastic top, the mower is exactly the same as when they started with the PT's in 1984, new model meant a new plastic top and maybe a new style catcher but the smart thing is once a manufacturer gets something right, stick with it just freshen it up for a new model
Norm, has the engine changed at all during those years? Besides being renamed eco-torque? I went into a mower shop (near the tip shop) a year ago, just to get a Victa lm carby primer cap o-ring. His first question 'Is that a 2 stroke?' I should have walked out there and then.
Anyway, the guy insists I need to have the model number to determine what part number. I just said they have used the same o-ring since 1976 to 2016, he wouldn't sell one to me. I said the model number is CE909A1 (TaC edger, the only one I could think of).
After 10 minutes of looking, he says he can order one in for me in 'only' 5 days, for 'only' $7.40. That's when I walked out.
Hi Tyler I think I paid some small amount, can't remember how much but it was nothing for 50 of them, pm me your address and I will send you a few. They are the same for the G4 and LM's so they have remained the same for 40 years so the best thing you did was walk out of the shop, he had no idea what he was talking about
Thanks Norm I ended up doing the same thing - bought 20 of them on ebay for around what the mower shop guy wanted for 1.
Unfortunately, no one brings in Victa 2 strokes. I just fix my own tip/curb find mowers (2 strokes mostly, but haven't found a Victa for 6 months), mates mowers, and mates of mates mowers. And everything they bring in is Briggs (or Briggs derived) or Chonda. Talons, GMC's, 909, Wesco, some Victa's and Masport and Rover. And several used to have Victa (one Suzuki) 2 strokes - until they straight fueled them.
It's sad that no one will even consider a two stroke mowers - so much better than Briggs, and just as easy to start (easier in many cases). I still see a few being used, but it's unfortunately rare.
Thanks you very much for the offer, but unfortunately at this rate, the o-rings would split and crack before they end up on a mower.
Thanks you very much for the offer, but unfortunately at this rate, the o-rings would split and crack before they end up on a mower.
I don't know about that Tyler. I got some Nitrile rubber o-rings that I had for about 15 yrs now and they are still in good condition. The problem is they are assorted size in both metric and SAE; therefore, I am running the commonly used sizes and the rest will just get thrown away some as I get a couple new assortments in.
It is the exposure to the fuel and other environmental elements that causes the short life spans here.
Hopefully they might be alright then. I hate having stuff in the cupboard that I know is going to erode. Like the 250m of trimmer line (double core special stuff) I bought on clearance at bunnings for $20 - never mind I still have about 150m in smaller rolls already.
Then I looked in the fine print - says made by TTI Techtronic Industries - bugger.
On the Briggs note, I had to grab an edger blade today (different mower shop to the one mentioned above), and overhead a shop guy talking to the prospective buyer. First the buyer asked if he had to mix oil and petrol like a Victa, to which the salesman responded ' No, and Victa 2 strokes are and always have been crap'
I was halfway over to state my opinion when it was questioned what the difference between briggs 450e and 550e was - the salesman replied one has 450 lb-ft of torque, and the other has 550 lb-ft.
Considering a 308ci Holden V8 makes only about 370 lb-ft, thats one powerful mower haha. I turned around and walked away. No point trying.
A there is only a small difference between 4.5 ft-lbs and 450 ft-lbs. And they wonder why I don't trade with the local shops. I got a John Deere dealer shop here that was telling the customer to ignore low oil pressure light on his mower as it didn't have an oil pump. Gee Whiz he only had to look up the IPL and that oil filter on the side of engine should been a tell tale indicator it did have one. Anyways that customer is now my customer as he will not even let work on his new mower that brought from them.
The problem with local shops they don't pay enough for good knowledgeable help instead just want a body there instead. When I got layoff in '96 during the corporate downsizing phase it was impossible to find a job as every employ was afraid that I going to take over their business as I knew more than they did about the repairs. I finally had to go to work for myself. Some of them now are regretting turning me down as I am their competitor.
I will let them off this time - they are normally very good. The guy isn't the mechanic, he normally does the advertising, manages the database, catalogues parts, etc. He doesn't work on the engines, but does salesman stuff when very busy. He coped it big time from the mechanics a few months ago as he fueled and oiled a new mower, then started it and let the recoil snap back from fully extended. really set the mechanics off.
MF 2 strokes are on borrowed time, remember the Holden red 6, you could pic up those motors any day of the week for $100 now you only see those motors on display in cars at car shows. When things stop being made eventually they disappear and the only place you will see Victa 2 strokes will be in peoples collections or the odd one in a museum.
Yeah, I was pretty tired when I wrote it last night - had been working on a few mowers, 4 line trimmers and a hedge trimmer most of the day.
They like the 2 strokes, just not overly keen on the LM fiddly kill switch design - but none of us are. I have seen 5 2 strokes there awaiting pick up after servicing in the past 3 months - 3 mowers (all PT) and 2 TaC's (1 PT & 1 FC). And one guy wheeled in a battered old FC Super 24 - straight fueled.
Tyler, I did a straight fueled FC 2 stroke a couple of weeks ago, Another barrel and piston, gave the bore a hone, new rings and it ran fine. I told the bloke I couldn't tell how the bottom end would hold up but that it was worth the gamble. He went away happy but the number of full crank barrels you can rat are getting in short supply.
Unfortunately it was battered. As you mentioned, it would have needed new rings, hone, maybe a new piston as the scoring was pretty deep. Pulling the engine over, the bearings sounded reasonably healthy. Then, it would need a new fuel tank, cowl (both cracked), new snorkel (split), back of carby, and there were a few stress cracks in the alloy deck, and one larger rock impact at the side discharge.
At mower shop prices, just not worth it. The guy was going to take it home and have a go at it. He was keen to stick with a 2 stroke as he said he's never had anything that knocks through the grass like that 24.
What do you use to hone with NormK? Are those three sides spring loaded stones mounted on a drill ok or do you use and recommend more specialised equipment? Yeah, I imagine the bottom end would most likely be out of the woods as the piston seizes before the bearings suffer damage.
Ahh, if only victa had kept producing the thumblatch catcher series, they would be in better shape today!
Tyler, the 24 is my favorite mower, they will tackle anything. Yes I just use a 3 sided hone with 75mm stones so they don't drop into the ports in the barrel. I don't bother with the barrel if the scoring is deep, that will require a rebore and new o/s piston and that becomes cost prohibitive. He would be much better scratching around and picking up another FC mower and pull the motor off that. They still turn up on ebay etc for a few dollars. I sold 15 FC mowers last year for $10 each to a member here.
Thats what I suggested to him (talked with him for a few minutes) - either rebuild as a learning curve, or buy a running (or at least not scored) FC with electronic ignition (his had points) and put that on. I wasn't sure about the belt pulley, as I have never worked on a 24, but it shouldn't have posed too many problems. He seemed keen to have a go, hopefully its going alright.
Is there any difference between engines on regular Victa's and the 24, or is it an identical motor?
Tyler the motors are the same you just swap the pulley over. The other interesting thing is that the pulley on a Briggs on a 24 also just fits straight onto a FC motor, I was expecting problems with the first one I converted but it was a straight swap, couldn't believe my luck. Also doesn't matter if it is a points motor, just put an ignition module on it and you have electronic ignition
Yes Tyler it will, they fit better because they are smaller. I fit them on top of the plate so that they get air flow over it, not sure if it helps but can't do any harm. All you have to do is cut the kill switch wire that comes out of the crankcase and connect the module to that, just leave the points and condenser in there, saves having to remove the flywheel
Yes Tyler it will, they fit better because they are smaller. I fit them on top of the plate so that they get air flow over it, not sure if it helps but can't do any harm. All you have to do is cut the kill switch wire that comes out of the crankcase and connect the module to that, just leave the points and condenser in there, saves having to remove the flywheel
Won't the points still be operating or is it ok for the module to work together with the now redundant points ignition? Have you noticed a significantly higher failure rate of modules on side pull full cranks compared to powertorque engine?
Ahh, if only victa had kept producing the thumblatch catcher series, they would be in better shape today!
No idea MF, I have done a few that way and they work fine. I think the PT modules might last longer because they were fitted down low on the motor where the fan helped keep it cool as opposed to the FC's ," oh I think we will put this electronic device on the underside of the plate, directly above the barrel where most of the heat gets trapped with no air flow over it", Not the best of ideas, as far as we are concerned, but as they got past the warranty period that was all Victa had to achieve
