OutdoorKing Repair Forum Forums Repairs and Maintenance Questions on Walk Behind Lawn Mower Frames Question On Scott Bonnar Cylinder Mowers Rover 45 Clutch/Motor issue

Hey Guys

Great forums, I've been lurking for some time without posting. Was hoping to get more burn out of my reel mower before an overhaul but looks like it's sooner than expected. Need a little help with diagnosis and parts, going to open it up but wanted to buy and get all the parts I should service or might require before doing so.

First post please be gentle.

So about six months ago I picked up a late model Rover 45 (for $550) with the plastic housing with the clutch lever turned from the rear.

The issue is the clutch appears to be slipping under engine load - but there might be more to it than just that as explained by troubleshooting steps below.

1. Engine off. Engage clutch and turn clutch housing by hand - whole shaft spins fine, reel spins fine
2. Engine on. Clutch disengaged - clutch housing and engine shaft spin as expected with slight visible wobble, maybe 1-2mm left to right play when viewing from above(this is normal?)
3. Engine on. Engage clutch - whole shaft spins for fraction of a second before clutch seems to let go. Now what I noticed is that the clutch housing also stops spinning at this point. Thinking about it now, I neglected to check if the engine shaft stops too but will look at that tonight.I would have thought if it were just the clutch letting go the clutch housing would go back to spinning.
4. Mate at work suggested today that I should engage the clutch with the engine off and try walk it
5. Tried adjusting the bolt/nut that the clutch lever notch releases against but that didn't seem to make much difference

The engine starts fine, doesn't seem to be making any odd noises. I noticed that my plastic thrust pad is a little worn, but is still generally whole, as in it hasn't split yet. Nothing seems loose, but I might just double check everything again thinking about point 3 above. I've been meaning to adjust the chains and reel as they seemed a bit tight from day one, but never got round to it - has this contributed?

The big side gasket/seal on the shaft side of the engine might be leaking a tad, there was a bit of residue at the bottom on that side when I picked her up.

Given the above info:
1. Any experience/advice for troubleshooting further
2. What parts will I likely need for repair
3. What parts should I be servicing at the same time to ensure another few years of good life
4. What do you think I'm up for $$$$?

Thanks for any advice
Roverdude45

Hi,
Roverdude45,

What you have is the very last model Rover 45 made at Eagle Farm in Brisbane before production on the 45 ceased. This is indicated by the rearward facing clutch lever.

I'll cut to the chase straight away. It seems your clutch is body is on the side of being flogged out as there should be absolutely no wobble factor what so ever. Now with you saying the the output shaft is spinning and the clutch body stops that indicates that the 2 set screws, that's if it has the later production clutch body on it are no longer pinning the body to the shaft. If you still have a cotter pin style body then it indicates that the cotter has come considerably lose and the shaft is rotating inside the body, thus wearing out the inside of the clutch body.

Can you please supply some good close up shots of the clutch area, the reel and bed knife contact area and some shots of the drive train with the side cover removed. Only then can I give you the correct advice and not have you wasting senseless amounts of money.

Cheers,
BB

Hi BB

Thanks for the reply. Here are some pics, although re-reading your post, I neglected to take some pictures of the bed knife area. I was able to tighten the two clutch housing bolts a bit tighter - under a quarter turn, but didn't want to go too tight in case it would be detrimental or I stripped it. It's allowed the reel to engage now and spin under load, however the clutch housing still visibly wobbles, especially noticeable at slow speed.

What do you think of the chain tightness?

Roverdude45

Here's one of the clutch engaged, looks like it's coming out far enough.

Hi there roverdude45,

Well it seems like you have what we call a flogged out clutch half which has also added a bit of premature wear on the clutch lining and the plastic thrust pad.

First things first and that is undo the 3 bolts that hold the clutch halves together and then remove the 4 mounting bolts that secure the engine to the chassis. Once this has been done inspect the clutch cork as it should have around 1.5 mm of cork thickness, but I feel that it will be much thinner than that and if that's the case I would organise a new lining and a the engine side clutch body at the same time.

Before you order any parts can you please remove the clutch half from the engines PTO shaft. One thing I feel might be an issue and that is the key steel that is meant to stop the shaft rotating inside the clutch half and create positive drive.

I'm bringing this up as you mentioned about seeing the shaft spin inside the clutch half and I'm starting to wonder if a previous tenant or lawnmower shop has had the engine off and forgotten to reinsert the key steel and just used the two set screws as a way of locking up the clutch onto shaft.

Once you get these major components apart and post some pictures up of them, I'll then be able to give you some further advise.

Must admit I'm very much looking forward to seeing the photos.


Cheers,
BB

PS. While I remember can you please once you've removed the engine, clean the chassis rails and take some good close up photos of around the engine mounting holes.

Hi BB

Thanks again for the quick reply.

Good news is I had time to look at it this arvo. Bad news is looks like my key is blown along with my clutch half (crack inside it), and there is certainly some damage to my engine shaft.

From what I can tell the issue has been ongoing for some time. There are multiple points on where the two bolts of the clutch half housing have been tightened hard onto the shaft, and a channel has been worn into the shaft - should be able to see from the pics.

My clutch cork basically fell out, glue must have come off some time ago, it's worn down to about 3mm. Did you mean this cork is normal 1.5cm thick?

The deck itself looks OK, I couldn't see any cracking.

My thinking so far:
- Clutch half replacement
- Key/pin replacement
- Based on your experience is the engine shaft OK to run as is or will I have balance/vibration issues and or risk damage to new parts?
- Otherwise will need to replace the shaft (if possible?) as well as that main side seal by the looks of it. Or maybe just get a new motor with the newer shaft size and clutch half if the costs are going up.
- Was thinking when I get a chance I will probably drop the oil and open up the engine to inspect for further damage - but is there even any point?

Anyway looking forward to your expert opinion.

Thanks again,
Roverdude45

FYI my motor details are as follows:

Model 091202
Type 1371 E1
Code 990713YA

I had a look at the outdoorking shop but couldn't find a specific shaft listing for 091202-1371-E1. Just dunno how easily available they are or if I can just use any crankshaft from a second hand 3.5hp engine, does the 'type' matter? Either way OEM new looks pricey - if I have to replace the shaft with one of those I think I'll just bank on a new motor?

Hi Roverdude45,

The part number for the crankshaft is 793153 just click the number or place it into the search box at the top of the forum and it should come up with the costing. Not that stock is available from the warehouse. Also being a member of the forum they might give you a discount as well

Hi Roverdude45,

I appreciate what Bruce has said in the above post and thus has pointed you in the right direction regarding the said component but I note that Price is an issue and the thought of purchasing a replacement engine is on your mind, thus I have come up with the following solution.

No need to worry about that engine shaft as I feel it will be fine. All I would do is rub it fully with a fine grade emery to remove any burs. I know that the damage from the set screws looks bad but it's not that critical because the parts of the shaft that need to be absolutely parallel are just before the screw location and also at the end of the shaft. Now as the mating parts are steel and die cast, it will always be the die cast that wears away, not the steel. The worn groove left by the screws are only going to have the screws bite into it again to stop any movement. Hope that explains it for you, also if you thinking of totally eliminating the issue, a new Chonda engine at around $129 delivered would be the obvious choice.

Now,

You'll have to purchase another clutch half, Thrust Bearing that's internally damaged, Key steel and also buy a new cork lining along with the glue required to do the job. Oh and BTW don't forget to purchase a new black plastic clutch thrust pad. This will ensure a square push on the clutch cone.

Re-use your current set screws from the previous clutch thus saving on costs of replacements. The screws will be fine on the PTO shaft as long as they are done up nice and tight again, thus with the fitment of a new clutch body all parts will fit together rather snug and perfectly aligned.

Once you've done that I'll walk you through the re-installation of the engine.


And, just a quick check on the square catcher rubber blocks in case you are missing either one. Always pays to purchase as much as you need in one go so as to save on postage costs.

Cheers,
BB

PS. Yes those rails are A OK, very lucky indeed I must say considering the state of your clutch.

Thanks guys for the replies, really appreciate them.

I think I'll stick with the current engine and shaft and see how the new key and clutch half fits together before spending any more money. Would like to completely restore my mower one day but a bit busy at the moment.

I'll grab all the mentioned bits and will let you know how I go once I'm ready to line things up and mount the engine and housing back together.

Also my mate was wanting to know, regarding Chonda engines, we've heard that the Loncin are the way to go? Can we get those $129 shipped to Perth? I couldn't see the brand in the Outdoorking shop.

Thanks again,
Roverdude45

It's not here on this site but on ePrey, where else for that lowball price.

Cheers,
BB

Hey BB

I'm hopefully getting some time to put everything together this weekend, I just wanted to ask if there was anything I had to keep an eye out for when mounting it all back together (alignment etc). I was just going to put it all back in reverse order?

PS. Also I was going to smear a little bit of htb grease on the thrust bearing and thrust pad. Is that a good idea or no?

Thanks again,
Roverdude45

Hi Guys

Just an update to anyone who cares or following after, put the mower back together a couple of weekends ago, in the exact reverse order that it was disassembled. Replaced the thrust pad, engine side clutch half, thrust bearing and clutch cork(glued using kwik grip gel and method from this thread https://www.outdoorking-forum.com.au/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=51311).

Also FYI used the same motor and shaft but left the engine side clutch housing approximately 8mm off from the engine side as didn't want to bite back down on the scored/channeled area of the shaft. Adjusted my clutch lever bolt on the fork accordingly and looks good (I set the fork to vertical on engage as read this was the correct position from somewhere else).

Have used it a couple of times now and haven't had any issues. Clutch spins without play and is nice and solid, no movement like previously.

Wanted to shout out to BB for all the help, as well as to all the other threads and people who contribute to these forums.

Cheers!
Roverdude45

Hi roverdude,

That's a great result and I'm glad to have been of service to you.

Just a quick one regarding the alignment of the engine and drive line. I've always done a static alignment with the engine not being firmly bolted down, this way you can maneuver the engine perfectly into line where the clutch wants the engine to be if you get where I'm coming from. After that's done you just lock the four bolts down.

BTW I'm not sure if you saw my response to the post where I mentioned about the RX-7 story which I edited after you read it ?

Once again I'm glad you've got your 45 all sorted now.

Cheers,
BB