OutdoorKing Repair Forum Forums Restoring, Customising and Modifying Reel-Type Mowers Rover 45

Hi guys, my SB was getting old - engine on its way out, frame cracked where the engine sits etc so I decided to get hold of a Rover 45 Select model. Got it for a good price and am in the process of pulling it apart to clean it up , grind the reel / bedknife & replace some parts.
Deejay you mentioned in a recent post that some may feel the Rover was not quite up to the build quality of Scott Bonnars. Other than a couple of minor differences I have found thus far, plus the paint in my opinion is sub-standard on the Rover, any thoughts/ opinions on where there may be other areas that differ?
I restored my S/B a few years back so would be interested to know so I can look out for them.
Cheers Ross

Hi again Ross, never having owned a Rover 45, it is hard for me to answer that question...but it has been voiced before by mower repairers and some owners on this forum.
One area to look for is the engine shaft bearing, which on the original Scotties is a self-aligning type, the Rover having a plain bearing, which can cause problems.
As you mentioned, the paint finish is also questionable.
Best wishes for the clean-up.

Thanks Deejay, I may look to swap the bearing if possible
Cheers Ross

Hi Guys,

Just for your information the Rover Red Models are not painted rather they were powder coated. I have a chassis here that's off to scrap and the red is coming off in sheets all over it and this shows it is powder coating.
Also the output shaft bearing housing is made of plastic rather than die cast metal along with different handle bar shape which I can't stand to be truthful.

Cheers,
BB

Thanks BB, one thing I do like on the rover however is the fact the clutch engage lever 1 has a cover & 2 its facing toward the rear of the machine rather than the front.
Anyway as long as I get my grass looking the way it was as in my pic, I will be happy
Cheers Ross

Hi Rossf,

It was only the very last of the Red Rovers that had that cover and rearward facing clutch lever. I must admit that I prefer to see the mechanics of the machine working and putting covers over everything is merely a pain in the backside, much like all the modern cars with their pretty plastic panels under the bonnet that do nothing but hold in heat and take hours to remove to simply gain access to inspect issues that arise.

Just my 2 cents worth I guess.

Cheers,
BB.

Hi BB, I agree with you 100% on that; I do not like to ignore safety issues, but as it is a machine with many moving parts, it should be approached with caution.
However inspection of these areas in an important part of routine maintenance.

Hi all, and ODK members,

I guess this is an interesting topic: a comparison between SB45's and Rover 45's.

I think they were of comparable quality with some cheapening on the Rover.
It was most interesting that Bonnar Bloke observed the plastic bearing housing.
Traditionally, that housing was metal, but included a self-aligning bearing.
This was done to accommodate slight misalignment between engine and output shaft.
I guess this was quicker than precision alignment on the production line.
Maybe Rover engineers thought the flexibility of plastic with a cheaper bearing
would do as-good a job. I guess ... not.

Bonnar Bloke also raised the issue of powder coating.
I know that Scott Bonnar prided itself on its baked enamel finish; but I also
know Rover made a big deal when it introduced its in-house powder coating plant.
Powder coating is fine until it is ruptured - then surface corrosion spreads and
paint just peals off. I don't think powder coating is a great idea for mowers.

Rossf's observation on the rear-facing primary clutch lever is telling.
I must agree with Bonnar Blokes's comments on that point.

Mowers went through a sort of Ralph Nader period, when safety concerns
led to ridiculous designs. In modern days there has been a sensible compromise.
[here I am specifically referring to engine flywheel brakes circa 1980s]

For the record, Scott Bonnar did use a rear-facing clutch lever on its Model 33.
That could have been easily implemented on the later Model 45.

Thank you Rossf for asking the questions.
Thank you Administrator Deejay for recognising the significance of the topic.
Thank you Bonnar Bloke for the most insightful compare and contrast.

This may prove to be an insightful and on-going topic.
What else did Rover change on the 45 design...?

All very interesting.
-------------------------------------
JACK.

Hi Jack,

Firstly, Thank you for recognising all three contributors to this thread. I really like the way you've done this.

One other thing that was somewhat different was the handle bar set up. It was slightly narrower than the SB version up the top which was probably done to make it a tad easier to manoeuvrer around in tighter internal circles, also you may see that the hand grip area was pointed ever so slightly upward but to be brutally honest the SB just felt more comfortable and ergonomic on the arms. If you have both the machines of equal size eg. a 17 SB inch vs a 17 inch Rover equivalent you'll instantly feel the difference with your elbows tucked in against your body on the Rover and far more relaxed on the SB. The hand grips were different to the later SB units as well.

Also another change was the catcher rubbers were bolted through the chassis on the Rover while the SB had half inch square bar welded to the side plates and the rubbers just pushed over the top of them.

ID was done via a sticker opposed to a riveted plate.

There are also a few really minor things that are just production off shoots like cleaner welding finishes.

Jack, your pointing out of the Hydroscopic issue with powder coating is such an important fact as this Red Rover Chassis I have which is going to scrap soon is simply gutted with cancer underneath every piece that's been powder coated. Even the chain case which is probably one of the most dent free units I've seen is merely a toss out as the cancer is so bad that any attempt of rust removal will reveal holes created by the rust, thus why I have never powder coated a reel prior to regrinding it. Painting is far superior in the long term as it doesn't suffer the same rupture and hydroscopic issues like powder coating does. Sure Powder coating looks good on the showroom floor but that's not where a mower is used and then stored after a quick hosing down of the reel after usage by the average Joe.

I'll have one last look at this chassis before it goes to Scott Bonnar Heaven which I'm always reluctant to do, but space is at a premium at my new home and I just can't keep every last chassis that has major issues with it for posterity.

Once again Jack I just love the way you've written that post up, it's probably the Historian in you coming out. I too am one but for a prominent Football club in Adelaide's SANFL that's set the benchmark by which all the other 9 teams in the comp aspire to (admittedly we've had a 10 year head start on the others) and I totally understand where you are coming from as the smallest details often reveal how changes were made and why.

Cheers,
BB.

Hi Bonnar Bloke, Deejay, Rossf,and ODK members,

BB, thanks for the comments mate. Very thoughtful
ODK would appreciate any comment on these points:-

The issue of the handle bar difference at the top is new and valuable information,
particularly when it goes to the ergonomics of each machine. I personally believe
that the SB 45 handle was one of its great features (though not its greatest).

The second difference you identified was the catcher rubber capture.
The Rover was a bolted-to-frame capture; the SB was a side-frame weldment.
[This is a cosmetic difference; it may be more important with Rovers
made to look like SBs.]

The third difference is of special significance, perhaps a greater issue
than the single versus twin-frame mount crack issues. It's the powder
coating issue on the R45s. You seem to be suggesting that this will impact on
the longevity of the R45s; that hygroscopic corrosion is of serious concern.

The fourth difference is the manufacturer's plate.
You say the R45s were adhesive, rather than riveted to the frame.
I have seen pictures of the 'green' R45s that have a riveted plate.
I need help in clarifying these statements:-

- The first Rover 45s were powder-coated light green;
- After x years, they changed to powder-coated Rover Red;
- a riveted manufacturer's plates were used on the green R45s;
- adhesive plates were used on the Rover Red 45s;
- all Rover SBs used plastic output shaft bearing housings;
- forward-facing clutch levers were used on all green R45s;
- backward-facing clutch levers were used on later R45s.

All very interesting.
--------------------------------------
JACK.

Just to throw a spanner into the works about handlebars, there was also this setup on the Scott Bonnar's.


The throttle setup isn't original as it was missing when I got the mower, however there are mounting holes for a similar setup.

Ahhhh,

Those good ol' Pram handle bars. I'm not so sure how they came about. I know all the Blue Lawn King 45's had them and my Father In Laws green model 45 had them as well.
They could've simply been an option, I'm sure DeeJay would know more about them.

Also I see you must a bit of a fan of the old Supercuts as you are using it in your Avatar ??? Do you still actively use it ?

Cheers,
BB

Hi BB
I'm not 100% sure if the handle bar setup in my picture was original fitment to that mower. It could of been off another model??
I still have the Model 17 Supercut, but now has a Briggs on it. The BSA engine on it in my avatar was just to heavy to use. It still gets used once every month or so. Not the easiest mower to turn around but still easier than the 30" Queens to use.

Matt.

Hi Matt,

Firstly thanks for the response.

I think I'm correct in saying that the Pram bar was an option available aimed at people that just had a straight flat lawn without any turns or twists, much like a bowling green.

As far as the Supercut is concerned I've started to restore my Model 17 that is completely original with its Villiers 412 engine. I'm doing it basically as a restoration of a piece of Australia's mowing history and definitely not to be used as a daily driver. My two 45's I have (14 & 17 inch)are far easier to use that's for sure.

Did you ever get a toolbox bolted to the handle bar of your Supercut ?

Cheers,
BB

Unfortunately no toolbox on the handlebar. My supercut has had a hard life but is mechanically very good, just has usual marks and a catcher that has been repaired numerous times. I sharpened the cylinder and bottom blade a couple of years ago so all is good.
They look good with the Villiers engine I must admit. Good luck on your resto and I hope you have all the parts you need.

Matt.

Hi all,

I would like to add my thoughts on the origin of the pram-handle.

Post WWII, Scott Bonnar needed to modernise its range as it moved from
war-time production. The fruit of that endeavour was the commercial
Model 17, and in the domestic sphere, the Model 19, 14" Bonmow.

It is the radically different 16" Bonmow, however, that would prove the
most enduring, in that it evolved into the Model 45.

At some point the name 'Bonmow' was dropped and the 16" Bonmow
became the 16" Model 33. This was probably when SB introduced the
Kirby engine(The Bonmow 16" has a Villiers 2-stroke).

The Model 33 continued for a few years after the introduction of the
Model 45 in 1969. At this time the Model 33 was sold as the 16"
Lawn King. Here is an advert from 1972:-



This 16" Lawn King introduced the chromed tube pram handle,
the original 33 (16" Bonmow) having used flat steel in its pram handle.

I believe the reason for this first Lawn King was done for market branding
purposes. Victa did a similar thing with its Mayfair and Barclay brands.
It was clever marketing in that it could appease both the mass-merchandisers and
the small atomistic dealers. This is significant because the branding was
probably one strategy used to accommodate the new Trade-Practices Act.
[Manufacturers could no longer demand a set selling price]

The second generation Lawn King is the pram handle used on a 17" Model 45.
I speculate this handle was offered for similar reasons: to enable a
mass-merchandiser to sell Scott Bonnar at a cheaper price without
upsetting the small SB dealer, who was selling the 'genuine' article,
but at a higher price. It's amazing how simple cosmetic changes can
change a buyer's perception of the product.

The pram handle Lawn King 33s and 45s are rare because they were only
offered to, and sold to, select mass-merchandise stores, and probably
only in select States.

All very perambulatory.
-------------------------------------
JACK.

A note oh HANDLES

BB raised an interesting point about handle styles:-
the Pram bar was an option available aimed at people that just had a straight flat lawn
without any turns or twists, much like a bowling green.

I would argue that this is a good reason why the pram handle was
not offered as an 'option' for the Model 45.
[I have argued the pram handle was a branding tool]

The SB people came up with a beautiful compromise to a decade's old problem.
In the 1930s, greenkeepers were arguing that the 'American style' handle was
better than the 'English style' for making quick turns on golf greens.
The manufacturers offered two options. Typically like this:



The beauty and brilliance of the Model 45 handle is that it took
the best of both views and compromised. The 45 handle, narrowing in the middle
and flaring at the top, permitted great manoeuvrability and quick turning.

Cheers
----------------------------------
JACK.

Hi Jack,

So what I've always thought is correct, the Lawn King was basically a "Walmart" Special as it had the bare basics on it, used the smallest entry level engine (2.0HP) and the cheapest to make handle bar. Thus it could be sold exclusively at larger stores with a Bunnings like format and not tread on the upmarket sellers toes that were loyal to the brand. Nearly 60 years have passed and not much has really changed has it. Walmart in the USA still get budget versions of many things made exclusively for them and are not available in any other store.

And they reckon you have to go to school to learn marketing, yeah right !

PS I always love reading your stuff as many simply are not interested, I love it, actually I thrive on it.

BTW

Jacks Comment,
I would argue that this is a good reason why the pram handle was
not offered as an 'option' for the Model 45.
[I have argued the pram handle was a branding tool]

I'm just wondering why I have fallen across so many Green SB 45's with the Pram Bar including my Father In Laws Green 45 17 inch which he purchased new.

This really puzzles me


Cheers,
BB

Hi BB and ODK members & Guests,

Thanks again mate - but THANK YOU.
I am continually reminded of what I don't know.

You have reminded all of us that you have seen many Green SB45s with the
namby-pamby-pramby handles. That fact should be explained, and I
don't have an answer beyond what I have speculated here.

This may strengthen my argument that these machines sold in
specific areas - perhaps to reward SB 'big accounts' or where there was
friction between mass-merchandisers and small dealers.

I am convinced that 1970s trade-practices legislation introduced a power-shift
between the mower manufacturers and the big-buying mass merchandisers in
Australia. That change also introduced a friction between mass-merchandisers and
the small dealer. Trade association groups like the MSAA were formed at this time,
but mower branding and cosmetic changes to models reduced tension between
big and small business.

It is common practice today, though much more subtle and ... [insert naughty word].
BB, I totally agree with your observations about today.

Thanks BB for your awesome knowledge of the SB brand, and more.
We all can learn a lot from you.

All very interesting.
------------------------------------
JACK.