OutdoorKing Repair Forum Forums Restoring, Customising and Modifying Reel-Type Mowers SB 45 RAT REEL - Rebuild First Timer

Thanks Deejay, the sole blade has a raised lip on the cutting edge, I will have photos next week, they are common on industrial mowers, they are more robust and last longer.

As for air flow through the side case, I can always machine up or retro fit a breather, but I dont think it will be too much of an issue as I regually remove the side case and clean/re-grease and inspect...time will tell i guess.

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I agree Pete, as long as you check the interior regularly, it isn't hard to see condensation if you are looking for it. Keeping the dirt out is certainly an attractive idea.

If you find it gets damp, not only can you then fit a breather - you can keep watch to see if that fixes the problem, and do development work if you need to. A whole new hobby, in one move.

Hi Pete, and ODK members,
From your illustration, for this bedknife to work correctly, it would seem to need contact between the cylinder reel and the bent-lip blade.

From my research, I have heard of this type of blade being used on the out-rigger types of fairway cylinder mowers (eg. John Deere, Toro, etc.) but not to my knowledge on greens mowers, both golf and bowling, which use a bedknife with a straight vertical edge.

From what ive been told They work great on residential mowers, Keogh's sell them for SB45's, but they are not cheap.
I thought thats how they all worked...contact from reel to knife ?? Am i missing something here?

Hi Pete and ODK members,
This subject can open up a can of worms and much debate....

Pete, there are 2 schools of thought here, those who advocate light contact between the cylinder reel and bedknife and those who advocate minimum clearance between the two.
I belong to the latter school...and I will give you the reasons behind my thinking.
The following is a direct quote from a leading turf magazine....
Myth: You must have contact between cylinder and bedknife.

Fact: �You do not need contact between the reel and bedknife to cut turf grass. Contact between the reel and bedknife will generate heat which will have many effects on not only the turf grass, but also on the traction unit. The heat generated between the reel and bedknife will tinge the leaf blade. Also that heat can cause the bedknife to expand which will tighten the cutting unit up even more. The tighter the reel - bedknife contact, the more strain this puts on the traction unit which can cause hydraulic hose failure and premature failure of the hydraulic system or wear on chains and sprockets�.

Contact between cylinder and bedknife causes drag requiring greater effort to turn the reel and in turn this greater effort has an adverse effect on drive-lines and engines. This drag also leads to rapid wear and loss of sharp edges, as well as a poor quality of cut. With contact you have the undesirable �scissor� action instead of the desired �scything� action. It is the scissor action which damages the turf plant and can prolong the healing process.

Here is a video that fellow Moderator Joe Carroll and I put together to show the adjustment procedure we use, at the end of the video, you will see my SB 45 in action....
Click HERE

Pete, which method you use, contact or minimal clearance is up to you....this thread is to give you food for thought.

I do like a good can of worms

I've spoken to a few green keepers on this issue and they were of the opinion that the manufacturers guidelines should be followed. In this case that would mean light contact.

I live close to the former PGA golf course at Coolum and also a very nice course at Twin Waters. I had the opportunity to watch the reel adjustment on an extremely expensive Toro greens mower and it's amazing how finely tuned they are. I know that Toro specify contact but I believe John Deere do not.

The Scott Bonanr instructions state "The blades maintain a better edge so long as they are lightly touching the bottom blade. They become blunted and dull when they are no longer making contact, caused by the grass being "dragged" through and not cut cleanly."

This is taken from the Toro technical training manual - "If there is no contact (a gap between bedknife and reel blade) it can result in faster wear of the cutting edges and more frequent grinding. No contact results in the leaves of the grass plant being pinched or torn rather than cleanly cut. This causes poor quality of cut and can actually accelerate the wear process of the cutting edges. The result? Deteriorating aftercut appearance and leaf tissue damage which is detrimental to the long term health of the turf."

Here is a summary of the the findings from an Iowa State University study on the topic. They found that a sharpened reel with light contact consistently gave the best visual quality with the least injury to the turf. A dull reel and bedknife with light contact also outperformed a sharpened reel and bedknife with no contact in the same test.

And here is some other balanced info [color:#3333FF]"Is it a scythe or a scissor cut"[/color]

It's something that's interested me so I've experimented a bit with it on a few different mowers now. I think the most important thing is that you take the time to get the adjustment as close as possible, no matter which method you go with. I'm not sure I believe that heat generated from contact will tinge the leaf blade - and I think the university study confirms that. I agree that having contact does put greater stress on the mower and its components, but with SB advising this method, I'm not concerned by it.

Oh and don't worry about a hydraulic hose failure on your 45

Hi Micheal, and ODK members,

I hinted, at the outset, that this debate will go on forever, and we have, at OutdoorKing, over the years, gone through this many, many times.

In the end, use whatever method you are comfortable with, but I will add this...Scott Bonnar ceased production back in 1983 at Thebarton...and a lot of methods used back then are not practiced now in 2014....Reel to bedknife adjustment is not easy, particularly for a newcomer to reel mowers.

As I mentioned, I've experimented with both. I have my 14" (that I use out the front) adjusted with no contact and my 17" (that I use out the back) setup with light contact.

To be totally honest I can't pick the difference between them. They both cut well and both appear to have maintained a nice edge considering the amount I use them. If we were measuring the differences with a microscope on a professionally maintained green, I think we may see a difference one way or the other. In the real world on a home lawn, I really don't think it will matter.

Due to the fact that the no contact method will put a little less strain on the mower itself, I would still lean towards a no contact method personally.

But I do like a can of worms!

Hey Michael, so do I mate!

With the experiences you've had with both set-ups, I think you will see what I was getting at with Peettee's post #53199 on Page 2 of this thread....with its curled up lip at the front edge, I feel it will need contact for it to work properly.

With a normal Scotty 45 bedknife set-up, the very top edge of the front vertical face, is where the cutting action takes place. With a bent-lip bedknife, the grass sward would tend (I imagine) to be pushed upwards and perhaps away from the bedknife....

I have spoken earlier this afternoon to 2 greenskeeper friends of mine...and both work at Bowling Clubs, both have replied that the bent-lip bedknife would be unsuitable for use on a green, in their opinion.

As you have pointed out, "In the real world on a home lawn, I really don't think it will matter.
All good stuff mate....

Hi all. Regarding the bent lip bed knife. I have had one on my 14" SB for about 2 years now and I don't notice any difference to the cut, however as my reel had run out of adjustment due to the reel been sharpen many times, by changing the flat bed knife to the lip type allows you to raise the reel up by around 10mm. This then prolongs the life of the reel.

At first I thought the bent lip would restrict at how short I could cut my lawn. But it doesn't. My back lawn is couch and I can cut it very short. I doubt bowling green height, but short enough for home lawn.

Also, to add to the can of worms, I prefer to have slight contact. If you google this there are many websites that are for and against this. As said, it's all down to what makes you happy.

Polished some bits...chromed a bit and got some grips.
GX120 arrives next week...reel, sole plate and drums at PC's
Nearly time to put humpty back to gether !

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Wow Pete, that is stunning attention to detail and no expense spared. If there was a Ridler award for mowers, this would be right at home! I love how you've chromed many parts that you wont see once reassembly is complete, that's the kind of attention to detail that top show car builders employ It gives the build a real impression of absolute quality and integrity with no stone unturned. Awesome!!

Hi again Pete,
There is only one word for this...Awesome!

Agree. My wife thought I was pedantic on how I'm rebuilding my mower. Im now where compared to this rebuild. Awsome stuff mate.

Absolutely nuts, you make it look like I'm not even trying to restore a mower

Congrats keep the picutre coming

Mick

Can anyone help me find or point me in the right direction for a Stainless steel bearing style front roller for the 45 ( same as Jamskin )Ive search High and low to no avail .....Ebay etc

Other wise I will have to machine one up at work.

Hi Peettee,
You will find that Jamskin got his from eBay, that's the only place I have seen them...Unfortunately I don't know the username of the guy that sells them.

Here is a link to Jamskins thread on his front roller...
HERE

Ended up going with the 160...bit over powered but dimensionally same as 120...i couldnt go past the extra ponies.

Hi peettee, you are definitely not "sparing the horses" on this restoration....is this mower going to be a display piece, or are you actually going to use it on your lawns?
You may need to get a logo embossed Connolly leather cover made for your machine mate.

That's like shoving a V8 in a Corolla. Nice!

peetee, you probably don't care at this late stage, but it isn't a good idea to chrome plate springs. Chrome plating causes hydrogen embrittlement of the surface of the steel, and because springs have extremely high surface stresses, they are likely to crack and break when fully compressed. There is a way to post-treat them to overcome this - it involves holding them for some hours at an elevated temperature.

To illustrate the point, long ago my father had a Henderson 4 cylinder in line motorcycle. (I did say it was long ago - it was a modern machine at the time.) The bike was designed to have no cover over the valve springs and tappets, so he decided he needed to have the springs chrome-plated. Having done so, he ran a standing quarter mile, just once. The run was slower than normal, and at the end of it he found out why: 5 of the 8 valve springs were broken, from that single run.

Here is approximately what the bike looked like (I don't know the actual model year):
http://www.hendersonmotorcycle.com/History%201918_files/image004.jpg

Correct, i want planning on using the springs and a few of the other parts chromed, i just threw everything in a box and got it all chromed.
And yep, im going to use this !

COLOUR: Orange. XT15

Wow, i'd like to say(and i'm not a scotty enthusiast) that your mower is absolutely awesome. Looks like a meticulous rebuild with no expense spared and no shortcuts taken. i look forward to seeing pics of the completed unit!
Once again, WOW and keep up the good work.

Drum assembled !

Looking good peettee, cant wait to see it fully assembled.

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Hi Pete, this one will have to be called...The Jaffa!

But to be honest mate, this is a fantastic restoration that even surpasses all expectations... But I do also respect the guys, who do the hard yards, and restore their machines to the original specifications, to preserve their machines (as original) for future generations, but can never go (where no one ever has gone before) as you have done....You have brought the Scott Bonnar Model 45...kicking and screaming into the new age, and produced a magnificent example of 'Malcolm's best!
Malcolm would be proud and so are all our SB aficionados mate,
Well done!

Wow! The attention to detail and the quality of the build are outstanding.

Excellent job, keep the pics coming.