OutdoorKing Repair Forum Forums Repairs and Maintenance Questions on Edgers Two Stroke Edgers Tilt-A-Cut tinkering

Hi everyone, 1st post so here goes!

I have been given a tilt a cut by the grandparents in law ( an old one which worked for a short period).

After 1 long edging session the edger seemed to just stop suddenly.

I tried to restart the bugger but to no avail.

The edger will turn over a few times after i leave the darn thing to 'rest' for a short while after which it again stops abruptly (keeps going for 2 secs or so).

I have tinkered with the carby airflow (its the model with the 'slow-fast' dial) and have found the spot where the engine will turn over for 1-2 secs every time i pull start it, but it just does not seem to want to keep going.

Checked the spark plug and it is good, Have also checked and cleaned the decompressor as it was a bit of a pain to start the mower (this also helped with the starting but again, does not want to keep going).

Anyone with any clues? ( i hope the engine itsself is not stuffed )

How does the side of the piston look if you remove the muffler and look down the exhaust port?

ill have a look and post this afternoon.

Hi Johno123, and a big warm welcome to the forum.
It's great to have you aboard as we all love to learn new things and tinker here.
Johno, could you let us know when you post, whether your machine is an early machine (Series 80) full-crank engine or the later half-crank "Powertorque" engine?
Once again

There are two generic causes that might produce your symptoms. The first is that the engine is running on pure petrol rather than 2-stroke fuel, and consequently it keeps seizing up then releasing as it cools off. If that is happening, the outside of the piston is likely to show signs of distress. Hence Joe's initial question. The second generic cause is that the engine is cutting out rather than seizing, which would probably be due to either temporarily lean mixture, or an intermittent ignition fault. It would be a bad idea to assume the second generic cause and try to find an engine fault, if it is really the first generic cause: every attempt to start the engine without oil in the fuel would do additional damage to the piston, rings and bore. Hence Joe (as always) has given excellent advice. The first thing you need to do is eliminate the possibility that the first generic cause applies, by inspecting the outside of the piston.

re: machine dating, im not really sure how to tell the difference between an early series and a late series, is there anything that would give it away?

As far as fuel, i have been running it pre mixed so i know that i have not been running it without oil, but who knows what the previous owner did

I still have not checked the piston via the exhaust port (but will do tomorrow morning). would a pic help you guys out or will signs of distress be obvious to even a layman as myself?

again, thanks for all the help guys!

A picture is very desirable - not only will it tell Joe what he needs to know, but it will be useful to other people who use this forum to illustrate what all the discussion is about.

A damaged piston can affect compression, including crankcase compression, making the engine run badly and be hard to start.

The first thing I do when scrapping any victa 2 stroke is remove tyhe muffler for the exact reason grumpy describes above, if the piston is only a little scuffed and browned, I keep the motor, any sign of a gouge and it goes straight to the wheelie bin after everything is stripped.

I had one that had been running without oil to the point where the rings had been ground into the piston and the pistons alloy melted over the top of te rings, not a hope in hell of fixing that one.

after initial internal condition of the block can be identified I would be pointing my finger at maybe a blocked jet or depending on the age of the machine maybe a bad spark.

sorry bout the late reply guys, but i guess better late then never!

these are the best pics i could do of the piston.

[img]http://yfrog.com/j1pistonej[/img]

Im gonna place my intelligence out there and state that the piston looks ok? (this is a learning curve for me guys but i want to know how to do this right!)

Would love to know where do i go from here.

opps, forgot to mention, i also had a look at the 'back' of the piston (the section before the piston rings) and they looked smooth as a babys bum. (i had some pictures but they came out awful blurry so i did not include them)

OK, I would be looking more ar a carby blockage then.

time to pull it apart and see! ill report how it all goes once i give the carby a cleanout.

thanks for the help Joe!

Hi Johno, can you please post a pic of the whole machine, I am still interested in what type of engine is fitted.

will try to do so tomorrow deejay (sorry bout that!)

heres a pic of the unit, as requested.

Hi Johno, thanks for posting the pic, mate. It is the earlier model, which has the full crank engine. This engine has a full-crankshaft rather than the half-crankshaft of the later "Powertorque" models....
Thanks Bruce and Joe for giving me the heads-up. I had it dead wrong....I forgot about the full-crank gear start engine....Oops!!
It must be the 45 degree temperature here yesterday!!

just so i know how to recognize it myself, what am i looking for when i am trying to find out whether the engine is a full crank or half crank?

That one is a full crank, one of the last of them

opps, full crank?

Darryl and Joe, you don't seem to agree on whether it is a full or half crank?

im guessing its a good thing that its a full crank? (if it is indeed).

I have tried to google up the difference between a full and half crank and what it means but i am getting nowhere, can anyone point me in the right direction?

thanks!

Johno123 it is defiantly a full crank victa gear start engine. If it isn't I will give you a $100 credit to use in the store to buy whatever you want.

full crank motors are supported by both ends ofthe crankshaft rather than on a powertorque motor that i supported on one end.

The full crank motors need TLC but will outlast any powertorque ever made.

It may well be worth starting off cleaning float chamber earea, (the primer cap area inside the carby, just dont lose the needle as you pull the primer cap away from the carby!

ok, i think i understand what the difference between a full and half crank is. (correct me if im wrong).

When i pulled the legend2000 mower apart (to replace the starting spindle, directly below it was the crankshaft (which was only supported by the bottom), ie: A powertorque/halfcrank.

With this edger, the starting mechanism is offset (i can see how yanking the cord engages a gear) so i can imagine with no impeding starting mechanism that the crankshaft is supported both underneath and above it. Is that correct?

Obviously my technical jargon is way off but if a diagram would express my understanding more clearly i am willing to draw one up representing my understanding of full vs half crankshaft.

Thanks for the offer of $100 Bruce, but i know you know your stuff, i was just pointing out that two different users had a difference of opinion and i didnt know who had it right (because i know squat compared to you fellas).

Hi Johno, I made the mistake mate, I forgot about the gear start full crank motor.....Opps!
I have corrected the previous post. Sorry for the confusion.

no probs deejay, i was just a little confused that's all.

So, can anyone correct my understanding of half vs full crank motors?

thanks in advance!

A normal single-cylinder crankshaft has two bearings that support it - one on each end. In between it has an offset bearing ('crankpin') that supports the connecting rod. The loads transferred to the crankshaft by the connecting rod are resisted by a crankshaft bearing on each side of the crankpin - the 'main bearings' at the two opposite ends of the crankshaft. An el cheapo engine, not intended to last very long, may leave out the second half of the crankshaft: in effect, by sawing it off at one side of the crankpin. This does not support the crankpin very well, and results in the crankshaft vibrating and whipping about.

With good design, the result of leaving out half of the crankshaft can be a quite satisfactory operating life and a considerably cheaper engine. If a reputable manufacturer like B&S can run an aluminium piston directly in an aluminium cylinder bore - which metallurgy tells you is a no-no because aluminium loves to seize onto other pieces of aluminium - then why not commit other engineering atrocities as well? How long do people expect a lawnmower to last anyway, and how many owners do something awful to it themselves, such as leaving the oil out of the fuel of a 2-stroke, or failing to keep oil in the sump of a 4-stroke?

The answer to your actual question is that a full-crank is simply a normal crankshaft, such as you will find in just about any engine intended to last more than a few hours. A half-crank, or cantilevered crank, is a single-main-bearing crankshaft - the mere contemplation of which makes some of us retch.

Thank you for that explanation grumpy! makes perfect sense!
Unfortunately in these throwaway days, people just want to see a sparkly looking mower with a nice price tag, they dont necessarily think about the quality involved (they in effect think they have bought a bargain).

I always thought that a mower should last you 15+ years, but looks like my standards will need to drop (either that or i need to start buying older mowers)

hi guys, its been a while (i was getting hitched) :P

I have finally had a bit of time to pull out the mower and give it a bit of tinkering again to try and get the bugger running.

I have fully cleaned out the carby and fuel flow is good, but now it wont even start.

I can flood the motor and achieve smoke on the start but it just does not want kick over and run!

getting mighty frustrated. Anyone with any other suggestions?

do you have decent spark?

a very decent spark

in fact, i replaced it with a brand new spark plug as well.