Need help?


Search OutdoorKing by entering Key Words Below



Who's Online Now
0 members (), 88 guests, and 46 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Online Spare Parts


Online Store


Newest Topics
Deutscher H660 - TLC for transmission?
by N1KK0 - 10/11/24 11:52 AM
Best use for long shaft PT engines off Tornado's
by aitchey - 09/11/24 08:20 PM
Victa full crank engines
by Jethro2T - 09/11/24 07:09 PM
Rover Rancher 1766 Ignition Barrel wiring
by Wayno67 - 08/11/24 01:11 PM
Sharpening a SUPERCUT reel !!
by rayray - 04/11/24 12:56 PM
Topic Replies
Best use for long shaft PT engines off Tornado's
by aitchey - 13/11/24 07:34 AM
Ranger XC restore
by Desbarker - 12/11/24 10:52 PM
Victa full crank engines
by Jethro2T - 12/11/24 09:30 PM
Deutscher H660 - TLC for transmission?
by N1KK0 - 12/11/24 10:56 AM
Evolution 3 Mk2A 12.5-30 Drive Idler Pulleys
by maxwestern - 11/11/24 07:30 PM
Success with Victa Lawnkeeper revving too fast
by MowingManiac - 11/11/24 05:52 PM
Victa Imperial
by Hobbsy - 10/11/24 09:13 AM
Rover Rancher 1766 Ignition Barrel wiring
by Wayno67 - 09/11/24 03:40 PM
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Hop To
#119848 17/10/24 10:03 PM
Joined: Oct 2024
Posts: 6
Novice
Good evening all,

Recently picked up this Victa super 600 and chasing some general information.

I take it to be a 70s series super 600? It was said to have been stored for 8 years or so and not run at all during that time.

I havnt had a crack at trying to start it yet. Need to sort the spark plug cap and get an air filter and cap for the snorkel.

Assuming any generic spark plug cap will suit? Ill raid the local tip shop and metal shop for a snorkel cap and filter and Im sure Ill find something. Looks the same as both the other mowers I have.

As can be seen in the photos The side discharge flap is gone. The lever on the heigh adjust is missing its cover. I've also generally hit some of the bolts with some innox aswell which can be seen in some of the photos.
Usual oil gunk at the base of the motor.

Generally how do these models rate compared to the 80s series power torques?

Side crank is new to me entirely. Cant say I've seen it on a mower before.
any tips for getting it running again?

If it cant be started, how easy is it to transition to a honda 4 stroke 5 horse like the photo of the attached 80 series


I'm a bit of a fan of these old 2 strokes.
I have a victa commando and old victa 160 utility mower and currently run the new mulchmaster commercially.

Cheers,

Attached Images
20241017_181430.jpg (448.26 KB, 90 downloads)
20241017_181439.jpg (123.88 KB, 90 downloads)
20241017_181519.jpg (190.72 KB, 90 downloads)
20241017_181536.jpg (123.26 KB, 90 downloads)
20241017_181623.jpg (166.47 KB, 90 downloads)
Screenshot_20241017_202929_Facebook.jpg (130.94 KB, 90 downloads)
Portal Box 6
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 7,582
Likes: 151
SENIOR TECHNICIAN
Hi Lindsay welcome here.
These are my favourite slasher, nothing else made like these anymore.
As for a plug cap I think that is the least of your problems at this stage, only problem is it is hard to find a plug these days where you can screw the end off. Plug cap off any PT motor will do the job for testing purposes.
Get this motor running and you will have an amazing slasher. I have plates here to fit Honda/Briggs motors to them but I haven't had much joy using 4 strokes to them.
Just looking at the blade carrier with the oil on it could indicate the bottom seal on the motor needs to be replaced.
Where to start on getting it running is difficult to explain, sometimes I can spend countless hours working on them and still end up with a non starter for some reason, even after giving the bore a hone, new rings and seals and using one of my modified carbies that I know is working. And that has its own problems with float needles that I can spend countless hours getting a cap and needle to work.
As a rule I will spend a week repairing one of these slashers getting it ready to sell ( always the front axle and wheels are flogged out and need extensive work to get them right, plus other general things that need repairs, these machines work hard and are pushing 50 years old)
My advice is work on getting a full crank motor working on it, you can fit a PT motor to them but the hours spent in making and adapter plate and then you have the issue of having to make up a weight to fit on the crank to prevent them kicking back and breaking your fingers.
They are fixable but they take a lot of work
Sorry I just noticed you had sprayed inox on the blade carrier, so bottom seal may be ok. these bolts never give me a problem getting them undone with the rattle gun

Last edited by NormK; 18/10/24 09:07 AM.
Joined: Oct 2024
Posts: 6
Novice
Thanks for the follow up.

Yep, the staining on the blade carrier is just innox. No signs of oil there prior. Good to know the bolts probably arnt rust welded together.

I've had a HRU196 and currently have a W821SC and both run the honda gxv160 motor which I've found to be a pretty solid motor. If I cant get this motor running Id rather invest the time in transitioning over to a honda 4 stroke for the hassle free motoring it normally affords. Powertorques seem reasonably common but I had read the posts about the kick back issues and them now being as prevalent which the 4 strokes.

Do you sell the carriers for the Honda or briggs (I assume 850?) motors?


I will have a shot starting this one maybe today or tomorrow and come back to the page.

Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 7,582
Likes: 151
SENIOR TECHNICIAN
I have had similar kickback issues with the 4 strokes on these 24's for some reason, I get very nervous just thinking about trying to start them. I can solve the PT kickback but it takes me hours making up a weight to fit to the bottom of the crank. Once setup, beautiful to pull. I have tried adding extra weight to the crank on a Honda and not a lot of joy and wasted hours doing it. Give it a try starting it but I don't like your chances without doing work on the carby
My step by step on seeing if there will run, first check you have spark If you have spark then I give a quick squirt of starter fluid in the plug hole and if it gives an attempt to start then you are half way there. This roughly tells me it hasn't been straight fueled. Then the next step is to see if it will start on the carby and that is where it can be very difficult and this is where you start to struggle with float needles. This is another whole ballpark of problems you have to deal with and I still fight with these everytime I try getting a carby to work.
Good luck and let us know you get on

Last edited by NormK; 18/10/24 04:19 PM.
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 2,167
Likes: 153
SENIOR TECHNICIAN & HISTORIAN
I still wonder if the problem you had Norm with the Honda was the ignition timing as some flywheels are 25 degrees and others
are 20 degrees .

Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 7,582
Likes: 151
SENIOR TECHNICIAN
Hi Max,
I put the Honda motor on a Sanli base and no problems starting it. I still have a 24 with a Briggs Qantam on it and I have started it a couple of times but it kicks back as well.

Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 2,167
Likes: 153
SENIOR TECHNICIAN & HISTORIAN
Hi Norm,

Yes but we haven't compared the ignition timing on a standard mower compared to an engine with a V belt drive on the PTO.

It's got to be a simple fix after checking out what the problem is caused by.

When using an engine with an edger, it is often beneficial to retard the ignition timing to help prevent kickback during starting. This is particularly important in devices like edgers, which typically have an engine that may be used in a different orientation than a lawn mower.

Retarding the ignition timing means that the spark plug fires later in the compression stroke, which reduces the likelihood of the engine trying to "kick back" against the starter mechanism. Kickback occurs when the engine's compression forces the starter rope and handle backward, making it difficult and potentially dangerous to start the machine.

On a lawn mower, the engine is generally designed to minimize kickback due to a different starting mechanism and configuration, so it may not need the same ignition timing adjustments.

As we know spark timing and a weak spark can cause kickback.

A weak spark from a mower's ignition system can potentially contribute to starter kickback during the starting process. Kickback typically occurs when the engine does not start smoothly and ignites the air-fuel mixture at the wrong time, causing the engine to kick backward rather than rotate forward.

Here are some factors related to a weak spark that can lead to this situation:

Incomplete Combustion: A weak spark may result in incomplete combustion or misfiring, which can lead to backfiring or delayed ignition. This can create a pressure wave that causes the starter to kick back.

Timing Issues: If ignition timing is off, a weak spark can exacerbate the problem, leading to premature ignition of the fuel mixture. This can increase the likelihood of kickback since the engine is trying to rotate in the wrong direction.

Fuel Accumulation: A weak spark might not ignite the fuel-air mixture effectively, leading to fuel accumulation in the combustion chamber. When the spark does ignite, the sudden release of energy can cause the engine to lurch backward.

Cheers
Max.

Joined: Oct 2024
Posts: 6
Novice
Thanks for the follow up.

Did what you'd do in that order.
I have spark. Only clicked after reading your response earlier how the spark lead wire attaches to the plug and hooked it up no issues.

Added fresh fuel (tank was dry - mixed at 25 to 1 as I was unsure of the correct ratio), primed and pulled and it tried to go but didnt run.

Had a look then at the carb and it leaked when the bulb was depressed and I assume it wouldnt run as it was perhaps starved of fuel if the carb isnt sealed properly?

On the attached image, when the bulb was depressed I'd get a decent squirt of fuel out the left, Then as the bulb reinflated there would be a second decent squirt out the bottom.

Could I grab the model of the carb and if there is a teardown guide / rebuild guide? I will begin searching the internet for the answers in the mean time.


I didnt do much tearing down, I just hit it with some degreaser to try and remove what I assume is decades of crud build up before I remove to much.

Attached Images
Screenshot_20241018_215635_Gallery.jpg (166.75 KB, 65 downloads)
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 2,167
Likes: 153
SENIOR TECHNICIAN & HISTORIAN
Hi Lindsay,

Looks like the carby needs a new o ring for the primer cap, sometimes just soaking the old o ring in fuel will expand the the
o ring enough to stop it leaking fuel. 25 to 1 is the correct fuel mix ratio.

A video below to show carby rebuild.








Cheers
Max.

Joined: Oct 2024
Posts: 6
Novice
Thanks for the videos Max, Exactly what I was chasing.

I removed the needle and face and like in the videos, it was pretty dirty. Cleaned up the seal and the o-ring and replaced just hoping that would do the trick. Put it back together and no active leak on pumping the bulb. There was fuel on the bottom so it might weep a fraction somewhere but ill tackle that when I order new parts.

Went to crank it and less response than before.

Double checked for spark. Got it no worries at all.

Jumped onto pushmowerrepair to browse the parts list and before I committed I thought it best to do the job properly and fully investigate the carb.

Pulled it off the motor and popped the cap to check out the diaphram etc.

First I noticed the diaphram was different than the carbs in the videos. Instead of the diaphram was held on by a very small clip and has a solid rubber centre to assist it holding shape. Attached a picture. Is this an earlier model before they changed it slightly?


After it was removed the carb could clearly be seen to be full of dirt. No filter and no cap on the intake line so obviously while stored mud wasps had decided to make a next in the centre of the tube. It was to far down to see but a solid lump blocking the whole tube.

So, I've cleaned it out. Cleaned out the carb and now I am waiting for it all to dry before I refit and try again.

Also, on pulling the carb apart, the rubber nipple thing (Called a cut out plug on the webstie) was split. It appeared to still function but I might look at replacing it.

Attached Images
20241019_160546.jpg (185.61 KB, 50 downloads)
20241019_160758.jpg (185.6 KB, 50 downloads)
Last edited by lindsay87; 19/10/24 05:10 PM.
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 7,582
Likes: 151
SENIOR TECHNICIAN
They are a forgiving carby I often find them in that condition internally and still run, it is the primer caps and needles that drive me insane. I modify the carbies and I don't use those kill switch wires, they cause too much trouble, I plug the hole with a 6mm screw. the green diaphragm rubber and the small clip are from the early G4 carbies

Joined: Oct 2024
Posts: 6
Novice
Thanks Norm. So I can instead just jump the wires together where they come off the motor? Then simply plug the hole and move on


I assume the rest of the carb is effectively the same as later models and I could get a new diaphram and retention disc and they'd go on just fine?

Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 7,582
Likes: 151
SENIOR TECHNICIAN
Hi Lindsay,
You have to keep the wires apart these are the kill switch wires. Carbs are the same and I have never bought a new diaphragm. That is part of the governor and I don't use that, I modify the carbies so they have full throttle control. I have detailed the modifications I do on this site. It is a bit of a read and I did add other modifications as I went along. I have done hundreds of these over the years, I know from the number of needles and caps I have bought. As I said it is the float needles and primer caps that kill me. The wire coming from the coil is the one I run up the inside of the snorkel to use as the kill switch wire

Last edited by NormK; 20/10/24 10:27 AM.
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 2,167
Likes: 153
SENIOR TECHNICIAN & HISTORIAN
I always find with the flat diaphragms like the green one ,if I put the throttle on full and hold the poppet valve out with the carby
off the engine and using long nose pliers to hold the poppet valve out then when I clip on the plastic diaphragm cover with the spring ,
the engine will only get to full rpm this way.

I think it's the flat black one that is the worst as they can shrink over time and don't allow much movement of the poppet ,
occasionally I have to replace them because I get full rpm but then there's not enough movement for it to idle.

The later black diaphragms are made a lot better with plenty of movement.
Parts below link.
https://www.outdoorking-forum.com.a...cta-g4-carburettor-governor-springs.html

Link to modifications below if you wish to go that way.

https://www.outdoorking-forum.com.a...arby-repair-modifications.html#Post82288

Don't forget to set the Poppet valve on C in the below pic, although some poppet valves don't have markings A B C

Cheers
Max.

Attached Images
Poppet Valve setting.jpg (201.57 KB, 29 downloads)
LM G4 Carby Diaphram for sale.png (50.55 KB, 29 downloads)
G4 carby.jpg (25.39 KB, 29 downloads)
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 7,582
Likes: 151
SENIOR TECHNICIAN
Hi Max,
Not sure if it makes any difference but I have only used the black diaphragms and the poppets with the ABC markings on them

Joined: Oct 2024
Posts: 6
Novice
Thanks for the replies.

I had the role of the kill switch backwards. Thankfully I'd seen your post about removal because the internal rubber cover was damaged (prior to me) and wouldnt reinsert so Ive plugged it briefly with a bolt.

Popped it all back together. First pull and the thing screams back to life in what I assume is the first time in many years and idling comfortably. I wasnt near any work

In respect to carb modification and RPM control.
I have an RPM and hour metre that wraps on the ignition wire. Whats an optimal figure? Ive never actually bothered to check any of my older 2 strokes. Theyre all just ..Loud.

What is the benefit of the modification? Removal of the diaphram and poppet and manual control of the rev limit?

What is the purpose of the trimming of the fins/ridges on the Cam? Is the steady ramp just to allow for more moderate applied control of the throttle on?

Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 7,582
Likes: 151
SENIOR TECHNICIAN
The reason I modify them is as you say to get rid of the lumps on the cam because they cause so many problems with sticking. Because I have removed the lumps I have to put washers under the cam to compensate for the reduced height of the cam. This in turn creates a problem refitting the cable so I cut a slot in the carb body so I don't end up bending the cable. I put a bolt in where the kill switch goes to prevent the cam turning too far and allowing the cable to pop out of the cam. The kill switch setup is a complete abomination and that is why I remove it and put it up inside the snorkel. It is a pain but the only way I can get them to work reliably
Well done in getting it going

Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 2,167
Likes: 153
SENIOR TECHNICIAN & HISTORIAN
Originally Posted by lindsay87
In respect to carb modification and RPM control.
I have an RPM and hour metre that wraps on the ignition wire. Whats an optimal figure? Ive never actually bothered to check any of my older 2 strokes. Theyre all just ..Loud.

I have heard 2500 rpm is the optimal cutting speed but it may just depend on the type of motor and at what RPM the torque figure
peaks and the cutting width of the blades will effect blade speed.

The HP peaks on a 160 cc Victa 2 stroke at about 2700 rpm so cutting under load the rpm will drop a little.

Unless there is a problem with your Victa 2 stroke you shouldn't need a tacho / RPM meter as when the popet is fully open
the motor will probably still be under 4000 rpm.

My 4 stroke mower I set to 3200 rpm and when cutting long grass the speed drops to 2500 rpm.

Cheers
Max.

Attached Images
victa_engine_12.jpg (109.85 KB, 12 downloads)
full-2772-1098-honda_gv100_torque003.jpg (108.11 KB, 12 downloads)

Moderated by  Bruce, CyberJack, Gadge 

Link Copied to Clipboard
Forum Donation
These Outdoorking Forums have helped Thousands of people in finding answers to their equipment questions.

If you have received help, please consider making a donation to support the on-going running cost of these forums.

November
M T W T F S S
1 2 3
4 5 6 7 8 9 10
11 12 13 14 15 16 17
18 19 20 21 22 23 24
25 26 27 28 29 30
ShoutChat
Comment Guidelines: Do post respectful and insightful comments. Don't flame, hate, spam.
Newest Members
westlinkcleaningserv, Maxieinsthgippy, Jerk, Jarryd, trueblue
17,044 Registered Users
Forum Statistics
Forums145
Topics12,788
Posts105,089
Members17,045
Most Online2,545
Dec 23rd, 2019
OutdoorKing Showcase
20 Bucks from FB Marketplace
20 Bucks from FB Marketplace
by Return Rider, February 20
Victa Cortina 2 Shed Find
Victa Cortina 2 Shed Find
by Return Rider, January 25
My Rover Baron 45
My Rover Baron 45
by Maxwell_Rover_Baron, April 16
SHOWCASE - Precision Mowers - 2021
SHOWCASE - Precision Mowers - 2021
by CyberJack, April 14
SHOWCASE – Atco Rotary – Paul C - 2020
HOME |CONTACT US
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5
(Release build 20201027)
Responsive Width:

PHP: 7.4.33 Page Time: 0.030s Queries: 56 (0.023s) Memory: 0.7662 MB (Peak: 0.8942 MB) Data Comp: Zlib Server Time: 2024-11-13 01:57:41 UTC
Valid HTML 5 and Valid CSS