I swapped this nice mower for an old Villiers engine..... And a carb for my Pope mower... Looks rough, but I will get motor going and put it on big wheel Victa..... It's a 60's mower. two stroke. Rattle gunned off top and bottom nuts today , and head. Rings Ok, bore Ok. bearings OK. Looking for forward to fun and challenge.........
bit crazy? speedy
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Early Pope mowers are getting so hard to come by. I'm sure you will get this one going speedy, but it will take time and a lot of work. I will post some photos soon of my Pope rebuild using parts from the early 60s to the mid-70s, and with a few repurposed parts from Victa, Briggs and Stratton and Tecumseh, other parts entirely re-engineered. Yep, I have finally completed this project. It took me 6 months!
Got the motor off base today, turns over, I sprayed some WD40 to get into bearings and past rings.... turned over a few times, didn't see spark, but I need to take flywheel off. It's an USA made Phelon FG 5152 magneto...Villiers used these as well.
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Here's where I'm up to................... heat. WD40. light levers....... heat wd40... there is no holes to put a puller in....... so I will let wd40 soat in under a bit of pressure... i don't to bugger it up.
speedy
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speedy, see if you can work out where the coil is and try not to drill into it because the coil might be ok to use with a module and usually if you hit the coil it breaks the drill bit
Hi speedy, you want the holes fairly close to the shaft to get maximum pressure on the taper. The further out you go the greater the risk splitting the wheel
Some of the flywheels have a centre steel insert with the taper so you wouldn't want to drill into that and weaken the taper support or weaken the alloy taper on the alloy flywheel ,the measurement is where the factory drills the later alloy flywheel and as Norm said going out further could break the flywheel ,the alloy centre flywheel comes off really easily with the puller with the 3 holes.
The other way to remove them is to put the nut flush with the end of the crank then hold two levers that are levering on the flywheel and at the same time hit the flywheel nut with a hammer.The motor must be off the ground to do this and is not easily done by one person but I've done it this way a few times.
The drilling method saves time for the next time the flywheel is removed.
I'll drill in correct position. Yes Max I usually use the two levers and hammer. But don't want to smash it.... I'm getting attached to it now....... speedy
Last edited by speedy; 07/08/2204:19 PM.
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To use the inner holes as designed I’ve found it’s best to start with a thru tap (in 1/4”) and then move to a bottoming tap. The thru tap should only be turned through four turns or it will punch through and create an opening for gunk to get into the electrics. I apply a bit of rocol rtd during tapping which allow me to easily pick up the swarf with a rag.
I have a harmonic balancer puller that I use to remove the flywheels; the one I use is an older unit and is smaller than some of those commonly sold today. The bigger modern models don’t let the bolts get close enough together or let you easily use the 1/4” bolts.
Another thing is to apply penetrant to the thread a couple of days before, this helps a lot. The sleeve on the flywheel can corrode and bond with the crankshaft and the penetrant helps.
If I feel any resistance I back off straight away and use heat differential to help me out. I then choose to do the job early in the day as it gets pretty chilly in my workshop overnight and the whole mower is cold. Having put the puller in my deep freeze overnight I use my heat gun to warm the flywheel. The heat expands the flywheel relative to the crankshaft and the puller works more efficiently.
I haven’t broken a flywheel in a while, I’m much more cautious since early motors and spare parts got scarce.
Morning Ironbark, I have a Ford harmonic balancer puller as well. I have used it with 1/4 bolts on other flywheels. I've heated and let WD40 run down crack..... a few times...... I'm not in a hurry. There's not much data around about this old Phelon magneto.... but I bet it's the condenser......... speedy
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I thought I might have trouble getting my old Pope flywheel off. Believe it or not it simply lifted off in my hands. It is an earlier model than speedy's however.
Just looks like the puller having a coarse thread will give you less mechanical advantage Speedy.
The one I just used had a much finer thread and with the 12 inch shifter the flywheel popped off , I usually drill and tap the holes all the way through but this one was not right through ,didn't even use WD40 ,the steel centered morse tapers I will discard and replace the flywheel with the alloy centered one .
The GCV 160 coil should fit well on these engines.
I'd go back to the car balancer remover tool Speedy and just hold the remover tool with vice grips and then tighten the bolt as much as you can or just use a rattle gun on the car balancer remover puller bolt.
I haven't broken one of these alloy taperd flywheels yet this way, but when pulling the flywheel from the outer edges they can break.
The one I removed took a fair amount of effort on the 12 inch shifter when tightening the puller bolt ,they always take a fair amount of force to remove the flywheel from a taper.
Must be like some of those old Southern Cross flywheels. They can stick there like they are welded. It will come free eventually and when it does it will let you know, although some come off more with a whimper than a bang.
thanks FG, been doing that.... today I held flywheel in fingers as mate hit nut on sharf with a few blows....... it's gotta go soon. There's a cam sleeve inside and a square pin that lockes all together, and some rust that has welded it........ soaking with WD49 heat . knocks speedy
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I guess it probably doesn’t get that cold in Bundaberg but if you try it first thing in the morning when it’s coolest, freeze the extractor bolt in your deep freeze beforehand and use the heat gun on the flywheel that’d improve your chances of freeing it up.
They do get rusted on occasionally. I used to muck about with old cars a fair bit and found there was a crc penetrant product that worked a lot better than WD40. I can’t remember the specific label but I’d give rusty bolts and such a squirt every day for a few days and then found I had many fewer threads to rework and stud extractor kits were less frequently required.
The risky approach is to use an impact gun as that delivers shocks as it winds, risky because I’ve seen them pull the centre out.
The risky approach is to use an impact gun as that delivers shocks as it winds, risky because I’ve seen them pull the centre out.
The flywheel with the steel centre, tapered insert can easily get stuck tight to the crankshaft but even when the alloy flywheel centre is corroded I've still never had one break .
I usually replace all the steel tapered centre flywheels with the alloy ones as they are much easier to remove and this is what Villiers also did on their engines so the problem must have been well known.
At least in our climate I think more advanced corrosion tends to happen when the mower has been allowed to get wet either through being left in weather or inappropriate washing particularly in seaside conditions. In any case, it seems that the more exposed damaged mowers have the steel “cast in” sleeve bond to the shaft when there’s been a solution to promote corrosion.
I had a ‘75 Victa I rescued from a beachside place where the centre tore out. That machine was perhaps the most corroded alloy-based Victa I’ve come across.
For what is worth the straight finned flywheel takes noticeably more power to spin than the curved one. It also pushes a lot more air. We noticed this when racing Kirby KAV87's etc. on karts, they used the same flywheels. For racing we preferred the steel centred ones as they were more durable when being "punished"
Love the Pope, keep up the good work!
Regards,
FG
"Quality is remembered long after the price is forgotten"
4 weeks , sprayed WD40 penetrant. Setup ford puller, heat, bit of pressure on the centre screw................ one almighty crack and it came apart, I wasn't even touching it. Points were set to 48 th", so faced them with sandpaper and set to 20th". nice big blue spark..... not bad for about 57 years old Cleaned them up, put flywheel on, head on and cleaned carb, made a gasket..... I'd like to decoke rings and grooves, but they look clean. don't want to risk breaking a ring, but it looks like Victa 125cc rings would fit. A victa piston fits, but could not use because of the domed top.
I put one of those starter cups on, so I could start it with a rope......You don't have and springs to bugger up....... ha ha speedy
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I just want to see if the motor runs, so I put it on a Victa base.Doubled the spacers. Had to drill one hole. It has four bolts. I wonder if those spacers and 4 bolts will be strong enough. It's a 125cc engine.
I have to make a muffler. I'll try to fit a B&S one I have. Do you think it would start without a muffler..... maybe a long pipe just to test it....... speedy
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I got the B&S mufler welded and the Victa disk welded to the Pope flat boss. test run today. It kicked over and ran well. Let it warm up as probably had not for 20 years.... It blew some smoke. and the Zenith carb worked. The butterfly changed the revs like it should. I messed up the camera so only got a short video.
I noticed the fuel line disconnected, and the disk nut loosened.... Fixed those and try again. I ran but something is wrong. I think carburation, spark and maybe exhaust backpressure........
I can check points, put Victa carb on, and put a tin can over mufffler to make more pressure..... Anyway here's the test run https://youtube.com/shorts/DVn8ioLeKYU
speedy
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Tightened the blade disk, and took flywheel off to test spark......... spark plug nearly fell out.... stupid...... It ran ok, but a bit rough. I suspect the 4 stroke muffler is giving the wrong pressure to the engine...... Don't know much about that, but i know 2 stroke motorbikes can be really affected by the muffler.......
speedy
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Test 6 with Victa LM carb...... Nothing else would fit. Still a problem, throttle movement didn't affect revs... Just wanted to see if it would work....... I want to get the Zenith going.......
cheers speedy
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I soaked the Zenith Carb, made in Australia for 3 days on CLR... it didn't dissolve away.... Poked a wire down all holes and blew them out. The float had tobe resoldered, what a job for newbies........ Anyway bingo. it runs.....
I put a snorkel on the carb ,just to keep the dust out of the carb. It starts easily with the drill. Mowed the whole lawn, and the Zenith carb performed well. I may need a air filter to restrict the air flow.... And gotta fix a fuel tank, instead of gaffa tape..... Anyway happy to step back 60 years........ speedy
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