Need help?


Search OutdoorKing by entering Key Words Below



Who's Online Now
2 members (bigted, QSR), 275 guests, and 57 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Online Spare Parts


Online Store


Newest Topics
Husqvarna Rancher 50 Oil Vent
by MowingManiac - 18/05/24 11:23 AM
Two hardly used chains for Ozito 18 volt chainsaw.
by MowingManiac - 07/05/24 06:50 PM
Honda GX160 only runs for a few seconds
by MowingManiac - 04/05/24 05:33 PM
Victa 24 F/C crank pulleys
by NormK - 02/05/24 04:56 PM
Rover Easypush lower handle arm rhs
by Wram - 26/04/24 07:28 PM
airbox to suit b&s 193707 bne
by Wram - 25/04/24 06:54 PM
Fuel Hose for Victa
by Dandare - 14/04/24 07:35 PM
Topic Replies
Husqvarna Rancher 50 Oil Vent
by maxwestern - 23/05/24 01:00 AM
Victa: The Triplets
by maxwestern - 16/05/24 09:58 AM
Honda GX160 only runs for a few seconds
by MowingManiac - 11/05/24 07:22 AM
Ogden power push mower
by maxwestern - 08/05/24 08:11 PM
Two hardly used chains for Ozito 18 volt chainsaw.
by MowingManiac - 07/05/24 06:50 PM
Victa Imperial Project
by NormK - 07/05/24 06:17 PM
Rover Easypush lower handle arm rhs
by Wram - 06/05/24 08:15 PM
Victa 24 F/C crank pulleys
by NormK - 03/05/24 04:59 PM
airbox to suit b&s 193707 bne
by Bruce - 27/04/24 11:31 AM
Scammers
by maxwestern - 25/04/24 10:58 AM
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Hop To
Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 171
Likes: 5
N1KK0 Offline OP
Apprentice level 2
Hi All,

Despite having a bunch of Victa 550 Pro's my go to mower for my sloping acre of kikuyu is my Honda HUT216 utility. After I reinforced the terribly made wheel welds it's been terrific. HUT216 Wheel issue

The only issue I have with it is that at any height I mow the deck along the sides and rear REALLY drags a lot on the grass - even at it's post cut height.

I don't think this is a flaw with the mower or that the Honda utility has that much larger/higher a deck than any other utility mower - but it's just that the Kikuyu is so thick and has never been descarified (?) and so pushing it is harder than it should be - which I've been happy to do as I convince myself at nearly 50yrs old it's my cardio workout.

But it occurred to me that taking perhaps 10mm of height from the sides and rear (the front is much higher) would make it a much easier mower to use on my property. Likely using an angle grinder, painting any cuts with cold gal + metal paint.

I figure this would still leave me with more than enough protection from debris - the deck is otherwise in excellent condition.

I get why the deck is lower at sides + rear but for me it's really effectively far lower than is needed due to lawn depth/type - is this a terrible idea or feasible if done correctly?

Thanks in advance for your thoughts. :-)

Membership information
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 2,045
Likes: 145
SENIOR TECHNICIAN & HISTORIAN
G'day N1KK0

It's not just a matter of cutting 10 mm from the lower edges on a steel base as the side walls will flex and crack,
the sheet metal is usually strengthened by having a pressed metal edge ,I have raised the front edge by bending
the sheet metal with vice grips and then cutting the excess steel off.

This Honda Utility looks like it uses the 21 inch SupaSwift base that has a short amount of flat steel after the bend at
the front and rear so it's not reinforced in the front and rear but the sides are longer sheet steel after the bend and
do have a bend in the lower skirts for added strength so if it was shortened it's not a straight forward job of just
cutting steel off the base.

The common way to fix this issue is to lower the blades ,sometimes I put an eighth of an inch spacer between the
end of the crank and the blade plate.The spacer washers fit inside the center of the cranks blade plate hub.

Another easy way would be to fit stepped blades instead of flat blades but you will need to experiment to find
a blade that suits.

If applying both methods the spacer on the crank and lower blades, this may be 10 mm lower as long as the
blades aren't lower than the lowest part of the base.

Cheers
Max.

Attached Images
Mower Base 1.jpg (16.51 KB, 83 downloads)
Mower Base aaaa.jpg (53.67 KB, 82 downloads)
Mower Base aa.jpg (50.71 KB, 83 downloads)
Mower Base aaa.jpg (179.62 KB, 83 downloads)
Mpower Base MASPORT BLADES 1.jpg (36.86 KB, 83 downloads)
1 member likes this: N1KK0
Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 171
Likes: 5
N1KK0 Offline OP
Apprentice level 2
Max,

I never cease to be amazed by both the knowledge of core members , like yourself but MAINLY the generosity you show in taking the time to give thoughtful, fully explained, detailed responses......I tell you it's a far cry from the sarcastic, know it all replies given on many other forums of specific areas.

Thanks ever so much - I'll have a look today and take some photos.

FWIW I think while the profile of the deck may look similar to the Big Bob/Supaswift one - I don't think they're the same - I recall before I purchased the HUT216 I was in checking out the current range of Supaswift Big Bobs, as they'd had an excellent reputation as a well powered 21" utility mower.

The owner of the business talked me off them saying he was very underwhelmed by the cost cutting in their range and had a spare part deck to demonstrate this - the steel was laughably thin and flimsy with a very cheap and nasty paint coat.

Honestly given the simplicity of utility mowers, it's something of a joke how little the few options on the market get for their money - as other than a motor - the costs for the deck, chassis etc would be very little and there's no catcher etc - but thats another discussion. :-/

Thanks again - terrific response.

1 member likes this: maxwestern
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 2,045
Likes: 145
SENIOR TECHNICIAN & HISTORIAN
When I had a look at the SupaSwift Big Bob Today N1KK0 , it was just the front section on the base that doesn't have that sort
of swage line to strengthen the sheet metal .

Originally Posted by N1KK0
FWIW I think while the profile of the deck may look similar to the Big Bob/Supaswift one - I don't think they're the same - I recall before I purchased the HUT216 I was in checking out the current range of Supaswift Big Bobs, as they'd had an excellent reputation as a well powered 21" utility mower.

The owner of the business talked me off them saying he was very underwhelmed by the cost cutting in their range and had a spare part deck to demonstrate this - the steel was laughably thin and flimsy with a very cheap and nasty paint coat.

It wouldn't surprise me if SupaSwift has cheapened the base now but the old SupaSwift mowers I've had have been good.

I looked at both the SS and Honda side by side online (see Below) ,the Honda looks like they use better wheels than SS .
The Honda Wheels look exactly the same as Pope Wheels and that's what I fit to my SS mowers if I need a
wheel replaced.

There are a few too many SS mowers here so if you put some pics up N1KK0 of your Honda 21 ,I can add some SS 21 pics
to compare the base if you like.

Cheers
Max.

Attached Images
Mower Base Honda SS.jpg (62.84 KB, 66 downloads)
Pope Wheels.png (502.64 KB, 66 downloads)
1 member likes this: N1KK0
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 940
Likes: 18
Moderator
The Bob and the HUT have the same base, identical. The gauge of the steel was the same on the earlier ones but i can not answer for the current range. Pope wheels are a good fit but they are only 7 inch in diameter while the Honda wheels are 8 inch
Cheers, ted

1 member likes this: N1KK0
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 2,045
Likes: 145
SENIOR TECHNICIAN & HISTORIAN
G'day N1KK0 and Ted

Thanks Ted for confirming the base and wheels, I hadn't measured the wheel diameters but the last SS Big Bob
I replaced 2 wheels with the Pope wheels and held them beside the old broken wheels and they were the same height so someone else must have fitted Pope wheels to my SS before.

As long as you replace all 4 wheels with the Pope wheels there won't be a problem on the SS as the original
wheels are 190 mm and the Pope wheels are 180 mm so height will only change 5 mm.

Cheers
Max.

Attached Images
Mower SS 7 . 5 inch or 190 mm.jpg (51.09 KB, 59 downloads)
Mower Pope 7 inch or 180 mm.jpg (53.08 KB, 59 downloads)
Mower Honda hut216 pdf 1a.jpg (25.41 KB, 57 downloads)
Mower SS 21 Wheel size 1.jpg (21.31 KB, 56 downloads)
Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 171
Likes: 5
N1KK0 Offline OP
Apprentice level 2
Originally Posted by maxwestern
This Honda Utility looks like it uses the 21 inch SupaSwift base that has a short amount of flat steel after the bend at
the front and rear so it's not reinforced in the front and rear but the sides are longer sheet steel after the bend and
do have a bend in the lower skirts for added strength so if it was shortened it's not a straight forward job of just
cutting steel off the base.
Yes, the base is engineered in this manner - so point taken and I won't cut - had worried about this so good to know.

Quote
The common way to fix this issue is to lower the blades ,sometimes I put an eighth of an inch spacer between the
end of the crank and the blade plate.The spacer washers fit inside the center of the cranks blade plate hub.
So I had a good look underneath to see how I could go with this.

I've attached images of the main components applicable to this discussion. Those being the engine shaft, the blade boss, disc carrier plate and the affixing bolt/support plate.

I'm sure it's similar on many mowers but on the HUT the blade boss slide up the shaft to a certain point where it is stopped, the disc carrier plate is slotted into place within it's 3 holes, then a small spacing washer and the locking bolt and plate/washer are screwed in.

I tried a bunch of things with these areas and nothing could be found to lower the disc carrier while keeping it firmly in place.

The only slight success I had was using a couple of very thick split washers in between the blades and the carrier disc. This lowered the disc's effective cutting height by maybe 4-5mm.

Still need a tad more though.


Quote
Another easy way would be to fit stepped blades instead of flat blades but you will need to experiment to find
a blade that suits.
As chance had it I have these EXACT blades - the stepped Masport 21" ones. But they're really not suitable to use with the Honda carrier disc as they have this raised section where the bolt goes through , whereas the Honda ones have a flat top. as is the blades I am already using are mildly stepped - I'm using the Honda fluted blades (which i had to remove some of the flute top corner from) as I prefer the wind force these generate to jettison cuttings as opposed to the completely flat proper HUT's blades.

So finding suitable blades that are more stepped might be very tricky and might only grab me another 2mm or so.

Quote
If applying both methods the spacer on the crank and lower blades, this may be 10 mm lower as long as the
blades aren't lower than the lowest part of the base.
Not sure how I could apply a spacer on the crank....the problem I found with this was that the blade boss either wouldn't be held in place correctly or the disc carrier wouldn't. Very marginal ability to change this via that methodology.

Attached Images
IMG_0705.JPG (168.73 KB, 49 downloads)
IMG_0706.JPG (157.59 KB, 50 downloads)
IMG_0707.JPG (311.04 KB, 49 downloads)
IMG_0708.JPG (602.62 KB, 49 downloads)
IMG_0709.JPG (543.37 KB, 49 downloads)
IMG_0710.JPG (393.18 KB, 48 downloads)
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 2,086
Likes: 80
SENIOR TECHNICIAN
Ok, so Honda obviously used a different blade disc and boss than the regular big bob. The big bob have a rover type boss and a similar disc (though this has changed).


Go have a look at the new current model super swift big bob mowers. Their blades are now more significantly stepped

Is that a 2 blade oval disc?

Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 2,045
Likes: 145
SENIOR TECHNICIAN & HISTORIAN
G'day N1KK0 and Tyler

I usually just put a spacer at the end of the crank but if the hub is loose you could put the same width spacer on
the step in the crank (other end of hub) but you would have to file key way slots into the spacer washers although
with washers just at one end of the crank it should be fine as with most mowers the hub doesn't lock up tight to the crank shaft.



Cheers
Max.

Attached Images
IMG_0706aaaa.jpg (159.32 KB, 42 downloads)
Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 171
Likes: 5
N1KK0 Offline OP
Apprentice level 2
Originally Posted by Tyler
Is that a 2 blade oval disc?
Hi Tyler, yes it is.

Originally Posted by maxwestern
G'day N1KK0 and Tyler

I usually just put a spacer at the end of the crank but if the hub is loose you could put the same width spacer on
the step in the crank (other end of hub) but you would have to file key way slots into the spacer washers although
with washers just at one end of the crank it should be fine as with most mowers the hub doesn't lock up tight to the crank shaft

Hi Max, I believe I've tried putting spacers just on the end of the shaft - and that caused the blade boss to be able to move up and down the shaft as it wasn't pushed up against the 'step in the crank' as you mention. I think this was causing issues for me but I can try again, its a fuddy little system they have down there, very fiddly.

Will try again tomorrow and see if I can kind an extra 5mm or so. Thanks again.

Last edited by N1KK0; 30/12/21 08:32 PM.
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 2,045
Likes: 145
SENIOR TECHNICIAN & HISTORIAN
I see what you mean N1KK0 about using one spacer on the end of the crank will cause the hub to move upwards
if there is not a matching spacer above the hub ,the only other way would be to bolt the blade plate to the hub
with 3 bolts and nuts but you would need to drill the blade plate and washer and hub. 1/4 inch UNF high tensile bolts would work.

I can see drilling 3 holes being quicker than making the extra spacer as long as the hub and blade plate are not
hardened. The problem with having 2 spacers is the one on top of the hub will need to be a snug fit on the crankshaft so
may take a while to make.

I would normally grab another hub from another mower and use a different blade plate if I had one that was suitable
otherwise it can be a little fiddly .

Cheers
Max.

Attached Images
IMG_0709aaaa.jpg (545.23 KB, 39 downloads)
IMG_0710aaaaa.jpg (393.73 KB, 40 downloads)
IMG_0707aaa.jpg (310.65 KB, 39 downloads)
1 member likes this: N1KK0
Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 171
Likes: 5
N1KK0 Offline OP
Apprentice level 2
Max,

Thats a very good idea.....if nothing else I think it will make all manner of handling that aspect of the mower simpler - as having the 3 different parts, each which has a bit of weight to it, can be a PITA when you're removing the blades to sharpen with the mower tilted upright etc. I also think a tad safer as it's complete unit...but ideally it should give a decent chance at using just a single spacer at the bottom of the crank/shaft and this won't cause the issue of the hub etc wanting to slide upwards.

Thankfully I ordered some cobalt drill bits from China, so they'll come in handy to drill this. The disc plate is definitely just galvanised mild steel - the other parts also just thick mild steel, so should be fine.

Great idea - I'll put it into swing ASAP and report back. Thanks again!

Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 171
Likes: 5
N1KK0 Offline OP
Apprentice level 2
Ok fought through the rain down to the shed yesterday - tried as best I could to implement Max's idea, which did seem to me the best solution to whats a tricky problem.

All seemed to go well - very glad I had those cobalt drill bits as regular HSS really just stinks at drilling into steel. The only tricky aspect was which of the 3 pieces that need to be drilled to do first? The disc carrier is easy as you'd slot it into the hub and do those together. But you also have the big cover/giant washer bit, which goes under the disc carrier & a large bolt is screwed into the engine shaft to hold it all in place.

The tricky aspect is that all 3 parts have to be in the right position relative to each other & most importantly CENTRED on the screw hole in the engine shaft. The only perfect way to do this would have been to bolt all on and then turn mower on side and drill through all 3 together - haha which had I owned the right drill might have been easier than what I ended up doing. Bearing in mind in total there was about 16mm of decent steel to drill through .....so on the side would have been hard.

All was i did on a crappy drill press, lined them up by hand best i could. In the end i was a lil off centre, so had to widen the centre hole in the big cover/giant washer a bit with a round file so that I could screw everything on - as I couldn't get the threads to bit initially. As a spacer below the shaft i used a large nut that when I rounded the corners off it fitted into the hub very snuggly, around 10mm or so in height.

Seems to have in total gotten me the 10-12mm lower on the effective blade height relative to the deck vs original - so SHOULD allow me to cut at same height I prefer but not have the deck dragging as badly.

Images attached show the lower position on the shaft of the hub (the shiny metal is effectively the lower amount gained). The bolts holding the hub, disc carrier and big washer all together. The position of the blades relative to the rear of the deck and also the front of the deck.

Big thanks to Max for the idea and others for their assistance. Will report back on how it goes.

Cheers, Nick

Attached Images
IMG_0714.JPG (341.06 KB, 26 downloads)
IMG_0715.JPG (257.36 KB, 27 downloads)
IMG_0716.JPG (136.17 KB, 26 downloads)
IMG_0713.JPG (187.9 KB, 27 downloads)
IMG_0718.JPG (266.3 KB, 28 downloads)
1 member likes this: maxwestern
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 2,045
Likes: 145
SENIOR TECHNICIAN & HISTORIAN
G'day N1KK0 , looks a better height now but is difficult to see the exact height because of the angle the images are taken from.

It may be worth marking the base on one side (doesn't matter where ,Left ,Right or rear) get a texta or chalk
or scratch a line level with the lower edge of one blade then spin the motor 180 degrees and check the height
of the other blade on the line drawn previously ,I usually check every mower and then use a big shifter on the end of one blade
to bend the blade to match the other blades height if there is a variance.

Sometimes the difference in height of the 2 blades is about a quarter of an inch.

Cheers
Max

Attached Images
Blade height aaa1a.jpg (65.63 KB, 20 downloads)
1 member likes this: N1KK0
Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 171
Likes: 5
N1KK0 Offline OP
Apprentice level 2
Hi Max,

Yes, getting the camera under the mower in a manner that didn't skew the picture by it's angle was very hard. I was conscious of this.

Thats actually a(nother!) good idea, I've been unable to cut the grass for a week and a half due to constant rain here in Eastern NSW, so will check out this arvo.

I used the mower briefly the other day (before it began pouring yet again) seemed there's a tad less drag from the deck - so haha nice to know a tiny benefit from all the work but when you push it around a slopey acre it all counts!

Much thanks again.

Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 2,045
Likes: 145
SENIOR TECHNICIAN & HISTORIAN
Hi N1KK0

I'd also use flat body washers between the blade plate and blade instead of spring washers as spring washers
won't support the blade as well ( the spring washer has less surface area supporting the blade plate so any impact
of the blade and it may bend the blade plate easier than having the bigger surface area of the flat body washers supporting the blade)

Another quick check would be to place a flat piece of wood under both blades to see if they are flat to the wood
as a lot of blades can get a little bent , 2 pics below showing one Honda blade plate with two blades bent up quarter of an inch
and one pic of a Honda blade plate with a straight flat blade.

If blade are bent just bend them straight with a big shifter on the end of the blade.

Cheers
Max

Attached Images
z1a.jpg (75.24 KB, 10 downloads)
z2a.jpg (79.34 KB, 9 downloads)
z3a.jpg (59.66 KB, 9 downloads)
Z4a.png (15.33 KB, 9 downloads)
1 member likes this: N1KK0

Moderated by  bigted, Bruce, CyberJack, Gadge, Mr Davis 

Link Copied to Clipboard
Newest Members
DallasOnesto, dallasf, TastyFishes, Apple_Smooth, Snitta
16,796 Registered Users
Forum Statistics
Forums145
Topics12,716
Posts104,641
Members16,797
Most Online2,545
Dec 23rd, 2019
OutdoorKing Showcase
20 Bucks from FB Marketplace
20 Bucks from FB Marketplace
by Return Rider, February 20
Victa Cortina 2 Shed Find
Victa Cortina 2 Shed Find
by Return Rider, January 25
My Rover Baron 45
My Rover Baron 45
by Maxwell_Rover_Baron, April 16
SHOWCASE - Precision Mowers - 2021
SHOWCASE - Precision Mowers - 2021
by CyberJack, April 14
SHOWCASE – Atco Rotary – Paul C - 2020
SHOWCASE – Atco Rotary – Paul C - 2020
by CyberJack, December 28
HOME |CONTACT US
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5
(Release build 20201027)
Responsive Width:

PHP: 7.4.33 Page Time: 0.058s Queries: 64 (0.048s) Memory: 0.7748 MB (Peak: 0.8967 MB) Data Comp: Zlib Server Time: 2024-05-22 15:19:56 UTC
Valid HTML 5 and Valid CSS