A couple of months back I went out to mow, grabbed my most used and dependable mower - a Honda HUT216 utility went to push it out to get started and noticed that oddly the rear left wheel was sagging/sinking when I pushed it/applied weight.
The mower has the normal single lever/'lift rod'(?) + spring height adjustment mechanism, which through many mowers and 40yrs+ I've never had an issue with. But after looking it over thoroughly I could not see why the spring seemingly didn't apply enough force/tension to keep the mower balanced/stable when rear pressure was applied.
As 95% of the time I mow at the same height I did a nasty workaround and removed the spring and used a flexible piece of steel rod to anchor the 'lift rod' in a certain spot against the chassis.
But I'm wondering what the actual issue is - does the spring simply need to be replaced? Though it seems completely normal and strong as can be - and the oddish height adjustment system doesn't have any obvious problem areas - though I have noted that Honda did cop flak on these chassis'.
I've tried to grab a picture of the rear left wheel height area, where I suspect if there is a problem it may lie - at the time of the photos I've got the metal rod holding the mower at my preferred height, so it looks normalish - but if I were to put the spring back it'd sag down and become unusable. Unsure why.
Not being conversant with the Honda height adjustment system I cannot understand how one corner can sag yet the corner opposite on the same adjustment shaft does not.
Is the system similar to most others that have a front and rear shaft running across the mower with the axle attached to a quadrant, the front and rear being connected by a connecting rod that also has a spring attached to help when raising and lowering? And there is usually a handle that you use to raise and lower that locks into place to hold the height selected.
Because from what you show in your photos, unless the quadrant on the left has come adrift from the cross shaft (and it does not appear to have) I would have thought that both sides would drop equally.
You'll probably find the weld that holds the stub assembly to the rear axle, most probably on the RHS has broken and is causing it to rotate on the shaft and hence the left wheel sags. The left wheel sags because the height adjustment lever is holding the right wheel at the desired height. This is a common issue on the Honda's and a genuine new rear axle is about $140 last time i got on priced. You can easily weld it, just sit the mower on a bench and jig it up so all 4 wheels are flat and making contact on the bench top, remove the wheel and weld away. Have a wet rag wrapped around the back of the shaft so the heat does not melt the bush.
I've used your picture as a reference to what i'm talking about but it's normally the RHS that craps out on the Honda's i've come across.
Not being conversant with the Honda height adjustment system I cannot understand how one corner can sag yet the corner opposite on the same adjustment shaft does not.
Yes, it was very confounding wasn't it - I really couldn't figure out what the issue was.
Originally Posted by bigted
You'll probably find the weld that holds the stub assembly to the rear axle, most probably on the RHS has broken and is causing it to rotate on the shaft and hence the left wheel sags. The left wheel sags because the height adjustment lever is holding the right wheel at the desired height. .
Bigted, much thanks for this feedback - I'll go down and check it out this morning but what you've said makes sense. Surprised I never noticed this if it is the case and that the workaround did suffice but I'll see if this is the problem.
Extra thanks for adding the additional info so I didn't damage the bushes etc - thats real pro feedback and it's very much appreciated. Will report back.
I am still confused, as the original post stated, the rear left wheel was sagging/sinking when weight is applied, that is why I mentioned the left stub assembly (quadrant), because as Bigted has mentioned the RHS rear syub assembly having come adrift with the RHS wheel still being held by the lever. This makes sense sort of, the original complaint and Bigteds solution do not quite match, because I would have thought that the front as well as the left rear would drop, unless there is a connection between the front and rear on the RHS as well as the LHS, the LHS connection is shown in the photo. I hope Bigted is right and the mower will be repaired, would like to see one of these mowers to satisfy my curiosity, will try and google image.
I am still confused, as the original post stated, the rear left wheel was sagging/sinking when weight is applied, that is why I mentioned the left stub assembly (quadrant), because as Bigted has mentioned the RHS rear syub assembly having come adrift with the RHS wheel still being held by the lever. This makes sense sort of, the original complaint and Bigteds solution do not quite match, because I would have thought that the front as well as the left rear would drop, unless there is a connection between the front and rear on the RHS as well as the LHS, the LHS connection is shown in the photo. I hope Bigted is right and the mower will be repaired, would like to see one of these mowers to satisfy my curiosity, will try and google image.
Beech
Hi Beech, Yeah it's just very hard to describe and also show - so I am sure it's just me doing a poor job in giving you guys all the info you need. It's also quite an odd height adjust system, I've not seen anything similar on other mowers - typical Honda!
There's no connection between the front and rear axles on the RHS, there is at the front left.
I suspect as BT said one of the welds has failed - I'll check those and report back. Have RFS training exercises later today so will gt done ASAP. much thanks for your assistance.
I've used your picture as a reference to what i'm talking about but it's normally the RHS that craps out on the Honda's i've come across.
Sorry it's taken me a few days to get back to you guys, was transplanting a bunch of trees while the weather is still cool enough and then had a few call outs with the RFS to fight some grass fires (word to the wise it's THESE that will be the threats to many properties this year, so careful on your pileburns etc)
Anyway I checked that rear left (from the back, where you push it) joint that bigted pointed out and that weld still appears to be sound. If it were the cause of the rear left sag having replaced the spring with the steel rod wouldn't have actually done anything as the spring/rod connects the chassis to the height adjust arm only and so that read weld would still be a problem if that were the culprit.
One of the pix attached shows the temporary workaround I've been using for a few months (as this is my most used mower).
So sure enough I thought I'd chip away a bit of the mowing to be done (the kikuyu is just 'waking' from winter) in the last hour of light yesterday and I'd only 15mins more mowing to do and suddenly the front right wheel completely collapses.
See other pix attached - appears that the weld on this definitely has broken.
I don't believe this is the cause of the rear left sag but I'd say the former definitely assisted/exacerbated this. Anyway so now I suppose I will repair this first and then try and find where the issue is on the rear left.
Just wondering what the best way to repair it is? I am assuming I'd drill through the old weld, insert the end of the axle through and then reweld this.
My only concerns are whether enough of the axle will fit through to make a good joint and also how to ensure that the weld is done at the proper angle? i.e that front right wheel is locked in place and changes only when the height arm is changed.
Do I try and mirror the angle of the other front arm? So put it down in a known angle i.e flat and then copy this?
Apologies for using incorrect part names etc and appreciate in advance any thoughts/guidance. :-)
Hi N1KK0, Drill through the old weld and weld back through the hole, not easy and depends on your welding ability. You may even have to lengthen the stub before you can get enough surface to weld to. Bit fiddley but can be done, both arms have to be on the same angle. Sorry I can't see what the cause of the rear axle droop is but it must be obvious, the axle is a solid piece side to side so it is either a problem with that or the base or bush is worn
As NormK has said drill out the weld that is there, take the complete axle off the mower lay the axle on a flat surface and do the weld.
One thing to do is to drill out the weld that is there with a drill size that is large, but not large enough to allow the axle to come through,say 12mm if the shaft is 16mm this makes it a bit easier to weld.
Once you have welded it I would suggest drilling through the outer and the axle and fit a roll pin through the lot, do this on both sides, as if one side has failed sure as the sun rises tomorrow the other will probably fail.
Putting the roll pin in will help take the stress out of what is already a weak design fault, not only have they turned the shaft down but they then reduce the effective diameter by cutting a thread onto it.
If you don't have the skill with welding this is not a big job for someone who can weld, probably a couple of minutes.
Hello gents, i would tackle this a different way for 2 reasons, 1) because i'm lazy, 2) because of my limited welding ability and i think it'd be a stronger weld in the end. Cut the sleeve in half and and remove a further 5mm from the end of the offcut. Fit the shortened offcut to the axle hard up against the bush(this is important as it will stop the front axle from moving left to right) and tack weld in place. Now put the wheel on the stub axle and fit this over the axle and prop up the mower on a bench ensuring all 4 wheels are flat on the table top. Now tack this in place. Once your happy with the way it aligns finish off the weld around the axle. Job done! Here's a diagram of what i mean
NormK, Beech and Bigted, much thanks for your replies - especially to Bigted for going to the trouble of uploading a diagram of his suggestion.
All great ideas, not really sure which way I'll approach it yet - my welding skills are pretty 'entry level' plus the only welder I have is a pretty old ARC welder - so less than user friendly for tricky/tight areas etc.
I'll have to go down to the shed and consider both approaches and see what I think is most within my abilities.
I think Bigted's might as he said be easier and also stronger - but if I do it and stuff up the angle etc it's going to be a bugger to fix. Tack welds with this old ARC welder are all but impossible....so it'll be a one time shot.
If I use NormK/Beech's approach and I stuffed it up I should be able to drill out the weld and do again or if it proves too hard I can then revert to Bigted's suggestion.
ANyway I'll knock off some of the morning jobs here and see what I can find might be the best approach. Much thanks again.
Originally Posted by NormK
Hi N1KK0,Sorry I can't see what the cause of the rear axle droop is but it must be obvious, the axle is a solid piece side to side so it is either a problem with that or the base or bush is worn
Thats ok - rest assured it pained me to have to post up and ask about it as I looked it over pretty closely and couldn't see why this was occurring. I suspect I might have to check some of the axle welds on the rear a little more closely.
All the areas are very hard to get pictures of as they're tight and at difficult angles....it's just odd to me that if it were a rear weld or bush etc - that removing the spring and putting a rigid piece of soft steel rod in place stopped this from occurring. As if it were the axle weld or bush etc, they were still unchanged. So I was and remain confused but now have this front axle issue to handle.
Is funny as I was only a few months ago googling this model mower and reading how others had said they'd had chassis issues, axles break etc and I thought,"Phew, I've never had that happen to me." and sure enough here I am, with what seems like issues with both of them. :-/
Hi N1KKO, Sorry but entry level arc welding is not going to be good enough, you will end up with mostly slag and no strength and it will break straight away, it is not an easy repair to do unless you have done a lot of welding. Pity postage is so costly because I would be happy to repair it for you
Hi N1KKO, Sorry but entry level arc welding is not going to be good enough, you will end up with mostly slag and no strength and it will break straight away, it is not an easy repair to do unless you have done a lot of welding. Pity postage is so costly because I would be happy to repair it for you
Ah.........funny but I suspected this might be the case. Firstly, thats a very kind offer and I very much appreciate the generosity of it. Well I might have to spring for a 2nd hand MIG welder or worst case try it with the ARC one and if it's no good I'll just have to grind off the mess and redo.
FWIW I took the dimensions of the key components to assist in nailing down the best repair approach.
The axle is 35mm in length from it's end to the bush, it's 13mm in diameter. In addition, it has ~5mm of additional broken/snapped threaded 10mm diameter bolt/rod at it's end - as shown in original post pix.
The 'sleeve' is 35mm in length, it has a 16mm internal diameter.
So as a sidenote seems a terribly poorly thought out design by Honda.....why not have the sleeve fitting snuggly over the axle, so that it supports it along the length, instead there's 1.5mm of play/gap all around and that places all the stress on the small weld at the end of it. Very dumb and doesn't make much sense.
Regardless of what I do I'm going to have to drill the end out to ensure that the axle is centred correctly in the sleeve - , otherwise it'd be all too easy to have it off centre which would cause alignment issues and extra load stress.
PS. Literally had this post interrupted by yet another grass fire callout with the RFS.....seems the gods don't want me to repair this quickly at all. Need to have lunch. :-/
Ok well due to a crapload of RFS callouts (8 in the past few weeks) I only bit the bullet on repairing this a few days ago. I was going to ask a guy at my brigade who I suspect is a gun welder to take a shot at it - but I hate asking for assistance from folks...well unless it's online! So I did myself.
As mentioned my welding skills are not great and I only have a old entry level Arc welder. Anyway my work flow was kinda like this.
1. Dismantled the axle from the rest of the mower. 2. Drilled out the end of the sleeve, so that I could just barely get the broken end of the threaded axle end into it 3. Aligned the sleeve and axle so that the broken side matched the still connect other side 4. To support and 'centre' the axle within the sleeve I put a bunch of thin nails around the exterior of the axle in the sleeve - they were just the right size to support the axle and keep it dead centre. 5. Clamped this all down as best I could and welded the end of the axle to the sleeve - just lightly. 6. I then centred this before it cooled and then moved it into a vertical position and welded around the entry to the sleeve to the axle - did this quite heavily so there was a very solid bond between the two. 7. Then cleaned up the 1st weld at the end of the sleeve on a bench grinder and reinforced this weld. 8. Cleaned both welds up and applied come cold gal to them.
Put it back on the mower yesterday and seems both front wheels are very well aligned - I also reinforced the other unbroken side of the front axle while I had it off to ensure that it didn't break in the future. Again seems a terribly weak and poorly thought out design by Honda but I am pretty confident that the front axle is now a lot stronger than when it left the factory.
Am unsure if this has now also fixed why the rear left wheel was sagging when the spring was on it - I've still got it locked at a set height using a rigid piece of flexible steel - but might check this some other time - it's a PITA to align up properly IF its still not fixed and I've a bunch of stuff to sort out.
But much thanks to folks on the front axle repair - appreciate all the advice and assistance.
So the rear right wheel decided to fall off mid-mow today! Gawd I still can't believe that Honda was negligent enough to design the axle to wheel area in the manner they did - literally nothing but a small spot weld at the end of the axle taking all the weight of the mower!
Thankfully I know how to fix it now and should be easy enough - I'll do the other side as well (as I did on the front) just to ensure it doesn't go in the future. Very good utility mower - engine is terrific, the deck is pretty good gauge steel but the rest of it is absolutely terrible. Very awkward handlebar height/angle that gives one a sore back and as mentioned the axle/wheels are a C grade effort by the work experience kid.
