OutdoorKing Repair Forum Forums Repairs and Maintenance Questions on Engines Questions On Briggs & Stratton Engines Briggs has file Chapter 11 Bankruptcy

Just letting anyone know that Briggs has officially file Chapter 11 bankruptcy.

Briggs and Stratton files Chapter 11 Bankruptcy

Hi AVB, any idea what Chapter 11 really means?

Hi Norm

From what I saw last week, it in effect means 'we have a sh**load of debt, cant pay right now. We want a few months to restructure, flog some stuff, get cash to pay.'

Bankruptcy protection

Its what GM did in the GFC, and Hertz is also doing now - they will be selling thousands of cars.

Briggs are apparently trying to sell echo/shindaiwa rights in Aus - don't know what else

Chapter 11 is a form of bankruptcy that involves a reorganization of a debtor's business affairs, debts, and assets, and for that reason is known as "reorganization" bankruptcy. Named after the U.S. bankruptcy code 11, corporations generally file Chapter 11 if they require time to restructure their debts.

Ok thanks for that .
I was watching what Aussie Disposals did at the start of the lockdown here. They had a number of stores in shopping centers that were not paying their way and they were locked into long term contracts on the shops. Obviously they couldn't break the leases so they called in the administrators. Obviously administrators have a lot of clout and they can terminate these things, then withing a few weeks Aussie Disposals were released from administration and they were back up and trading as they had had the big rent money removed from their back. This is what I think probably happened

A good start would be to scrap their never need an oil change line of consumer grade garbage plainly designed to further reduce longevity and their dreadful governor set ups and start making quality again. Lower the horsepower if they need to maintain their tier structure to get people to spend more on higher grades.

I found out some equity firm has it's sights on taking over the brand , already supplying finance during the restructure. That's how we lost Di¢k Smith Electronics (DSE) with one of these firms running it into oblivion didn't we?

I hope Victa doesn't go the way of [Censored] Smith as a result of this and gets a better owner.

I think also too, that a section 11 protects you from your creditors in such a way that they cannot apply to bankrupt a company or individual whilst it is under a section 11 agreement. If the company fails to then pay its creditors after a specified time frame, then they can certainly apply to the courts for a bankruptcy order. It just gives a company a bit of time to sell off excesses and call in accounts that may be still outstanding that may help to pay their bills.I think the major creditors may have had to approve of the chapter 11 in the first place, then they have to abide by the conditions placed on it also. Best to get some monies owed than nothing.

MF,
I doubt Briggs would be thinking about a revamp of their motor designs at this point in time and as for Victa, it is only a name now so whatever happens to it now doesn't matter that much although people will still buy on name alone until they realize they have been sold rubbish

What sad times this is..... Is this a wake up call for Australia to start producing again? Or are we going to be another garbage importanting country..

I hope we will go back to making some things, but never back to how we were

MF - how could they lower the horsepower - they barely pull the skin of custard as it is. The new basic 'series 300' has 3 ftlb torque. Bearing in mind the last of the 3.5hp flat heads was branded 450 (4.5ftlb) those new little ones can't hardly be a ball of fire. 3.5hp is sufficient to run a catcher mower over a average suburban lawn with minimal fuss.

If you equate (it doesn't work like this, but anyway) if 4.5ftlb = 3.5hp, then 3ftlb = 2.3hp.

I haven't yet had the displeasure of piloting one of these over thick grass - wouldn't be fun I am guessing

I agree with the just check and add system - planned failure

Just came across an indepth write up into the downfall of briggs.

From this article, it proves wheat we already know; the Vertical pulls were the last of the good ones, 1983 onwards was just downhill

https://wisconsinexaminer.com/2020/09/28/briggs-strattons-demise-greed-mismanagement-blaming-others/

Many thanks Tyler for this!

I have held back but this article is a quality analysis of the situation.

Briggs changed in the 1980s and I was a part of that.
In becoming an OEM(s) Briggs set a dangerous course of decline.

I do not think that 1983 onwards was just downhill, but in the small engine
sphere that would be fair point.

It was a race to the bottom and WE - as consumers - played a part in that.

In the commercial world, Briggs made engines equal to the best.

A sad story in the history of Briggs.
Maybe they will rise again. Their history suggests they will survive.

Cheers
-------------------
Jack

G'day Tyler and Jack,

What can I say ,It was going to happen one day, just look at the future

https://www.victa.com/au/en_au/prod...SLZntN6RoOgjV3_KieRHaTBeE-QWhX-HEDyci8uw




Cheers
Max.

Hi Max

I have written repeatedly that domestic mowers have become a
mere appliance in the modern world.

I hate that toys are now presented as lawnmowers.



Robot mowers have a long heritage - and I guess it was all
about labour-saving in households. I get that. Its an interesting topic
until it becomes main-stream ... when virtual becomes reality.

We have become slaves to a dangerous trend...
I mean, why vacuum your house - a robot can do that!
Thank you Roomba! F U Roomba.

For me, robotic mowers say - don't engage with nature.
Don't do physical activity in the garden. Gardens should be enjoyed from a distance.
Gardening steals our valuable time. Shame on nature!

If this trend continues then robotic lawnmowers are a god-send
to mower makers. Makers ask stupid prices for toys that have little
re-sale value. It's clever - how many consumers are conned.

Hey, Siri, what should I think today?

----------------------------
Jack

p.s. We need to get out and smell the roses.

p.s.2 (not the Play Station) - isn't it ironic that Victa
promoted lawnmowing as fun to do a few decades ago.
https://www.outdoorking-forum.com.au/forum/u...-promotional-recording-songs-for-73.html

Hi Jack and Max

The problem arose with (in my opinion) well before the 80s. It is a shame quality products are few and far between, and even if you do pay a premium for a good name, it is normally as bad if not worse than the cheap off-brand equivalent

That robo mower is almost as bad as those american victa hurricane and thunders - except more expensive and useless

Have to admit I do like the robotic vacuum cleaner - especially considering I bought it for $30 and only needed $5 of consumable bits to get it working perfectly. But, it does not replace the dyson, and anyone foolish enough to think it would deserves to be conned.

It allows more time to do other important things (like lawn)

During lockdown, I would have wrung the neck of the next yuppie I heard bemoaning being bored around the house.

I'm with you Jack, I hate this throwaway world, everybody is banging on about man polluting the planet and we have manufactures producing products that are not repairable or cheaper to just replace. I hate waste, couple of days ago the tyre on my wheelbarrow started to split and expose the tube. Bit of messing around and I now have a barrow with a rear wheel off a rideon mower fitted and now it will outlast me

I can't believe how ignorant people are. There are many who still think Briggs and Stratton are like a trusted name to look for in mower engines.
That died decades ago. It's a signal to run away now and I was appalled after reading that article a few posts up in Tyler's link. They embody the unscrupulous American company think of short term profits above all else.

I was also appalled at that behaviour MF - especially at the union cracking and the millions paid out just before

Can't remember if that article mentioned it, but those 2 previous MD pri*ks are now trying to secure 40+ mil in severance packs from their retirement plans

Never mind the thousands of employees who no longer have retirement healthcare plans or small pensions (terminated by briggs).

Which leads me to another point; for all of the Aussie health systems failings and waiting lists, we are lucky to have it.

So Briggs And Stratton were run by criminals essentially.
And they of all companies buy Victa out. Great.
It beloved icon owned by that POS engine maker who churn out POS.

Hello all,
I do not endorse much of this thinking.

Briggs history reveals it was a quality manufacturer led by competent people.
We need to separate Briggs as a domestic engine maker and as a top-end engine maker.

Just like pizzas, there has been a race to the bottom in the modern era.
Briggs responded badly to that, but I understand the pressure of separating
changes in market to keeping meals on the table for their employees.
Of course it was a race to the bottom.

If domestic mowers are treated as mere appliances, then engine makers have
responded in kind. That is what has happened historically.

I am sympathetic to the view that Briggs did not understand the phenomenon.
But who did!

It is a sad story.
But Briggs deserves more credit than is due in responding to this silly new world.

---------------------------
Jack

I agree Jack, there are some good engines they make - mainly vanguard and other similar IC motors.

It pains me that we are in such a disposable society that we have got to the point where a $500 piece of machinery, let alone one which has the capability to take limbs off, is treated with such disregard by people.

I was in bunnings the other day and briefly helped a guy (who stank of cigarettes) pick which oil for the Victa he had on his trolley (classic cut, briggs) and said take this 1L 10w30, tip in 450ml, fill with petrol, start and let it idle for 10 minutes to run in. Then after 3 months, use most of the rest of the bottle to do the 5hr break in change and use the dregs to clean and oil the filter. He questioned why he would want to do any of that. Told him to preserve engine life. He said he could care less about engine life, he just needs the lawn cut.

I eventually related it back to fill it up, start it, put it at idle, go smoke 2 winfield's and then mow. That got it through his head. The oil and filter change less so.

The general way is to treat everything like crap then complain it doesn't last.

There are very few things I do not maintain to a high degree (mostly hot water systems and computers).

Is it because people are not taught or because most people have grown up in a world where cheap products are readily available that they do not bother to maintain or repair.

I must admit, I was having computer issues and complaining about the damn thing. I was called a hypocrite - I bemoan all these idiots who run things into the ground; yet I hadn't done a defrag in 2 years, rarely deleted old programs, never cleaned up photos for at least 4 and had never had the laptop apart in its 6 years. So I did all of that and it runs 10 times better. Different priorities.

Had I taken it in for service, the tech would have got as angry as I do when I see a 6 year old formerly $1200 Victa with no oil, filthy filter, deck covered in grass and blades worn to stubs. Those people had different priorities as well.


Overall, it must just be most people are either ignorant or so self centred and can afford new things every time something breaks. Good luck to them, I bet its going to come back and bite them very shortly now.

Their good engines are mainly outsourced. Their core engines are antique pigs with lipstick with inferior components.
This debacle it's the kick in the bum this company needs although the architects of this doom get rewarded for negative achievement. That makes them worse than bludgers and bank robbers for that matter.
The worst part of all is it's perfectly above board. That's why we have regulation to make stuff like this illegal in the first place and put a stop to it.

Hi Tyler
Many thanks for a reasonable and considered opinion.

----------------------------
Jack

Actually you can trace B&S's downfall to a certain type of management ideology which also came to Victa post the Sunbeam sale to GUD Holdings When all the decks became cheap and the sale of the Milperra site. Now was the Power-torque an in house Victa design or was it outsourced by Sunbeam to a engineering company.

MBA's and Cocaine are bad mix

I hate that term holdings. It means grubby take over merchants who remain behind the scenes trading in respected names. Wasn't a company like that responsible for the demise of DSE?

They are cases where a company is worth more broken up than it is as a complete entity.

The people responsible are worth-less in my eyes and worth more broken up as well.