OutdoorKing Repair Forum Forums General Discussion Forum Off Topics It's no wonder this country is shutting down !

Yes but it was in the classification of a luxury car and thus you paid the car makers" Luxury Price".

Spare parts were the same. If you bought a part for a "Statesman" which just happened to be exactly the same on a Kingswood you paid the Statesman price all because you said it was for a Statesman and not a Belmont / Kingswood / Premier / Monaro.

Cheers,
BB.

I guess if you turn up to the Opera House you don't want to be seen in a Hoon orientated Monaro, rather a Brougham / Statesman, thus you're going to pay a upper class price purely for the image.

Cheers,
BB.

Much like buying a Mercedes or Beemer.

Bloke across the road from me has a BMW M3 probably 14 years old and it is worth nothing and it appears to be in very good condition, but any time he needs to get something done on it (and that is quite often) it costs him an arm and a leg. You would not touch that type of car in a fit

The only good BMW these days is one covered by warranty. Any wonder you see abandoned with cobwebs like this poor old 750 il that sat here for years?

Hi MF,

Is that an abandoned Beemer ?

Hi Norm, All European cars are simply giant money pits with no returns at the end when it's time to part with it.

My brother bought a Merc about 4 years ago and paid $24K for it. Now it'll be worth around $6K tops. They just lose so much value, but the folks that buy them can most certainly afford to toss that sort of cash out the window, or better still toss it in a creek as we've just seen today.

Cheers,
BB.

It's a 750il V12 that sat in that spot for years. Gone now. I took the pic many months back. It had cobwebs all over the doors on the other side. A late 80s to early 90s model.
The owners must have had an expensive to fix issue with it. A great looking car. Some useless oxygen sponge vandalised the taillights toward the end.

BB,
with the BM across the road the last time he took it to get something done on it cost him $1800 so he just left it in the drive and went and bought a V8 petrol Land Cruiser and he says that is much cheaper to run because unlike the BM it doesn't break down all the time.

As Paul Keating would say, "there goes another Bone Head"

Cheers,
BB.

G'day everyone,

So many posts here where do you start? lol

I can probably just speak more about the older Fords only because I have worked on many of them years ago and also have been to many wreckers especially Ford wreckers and have spoken to quite a few people over the years, yes there is many stories about things from back in those days...lol

Well one thing I remember quite well was back around 2000 me and my mate with the black XB had both our cars parked at a Mcdonald's car park here in Melbourne one night. Anyway we were just standing outside chatting away when a car pulls up and parks near our cars. Two men get out and come over to us and say g'day. They were looking at our cars and we started chatting and one bloke introduces himself and says that he worked at the Ford Motor Company back in the days when those cars were being made. It was Wayne Draper and his panel beater who just happened to notice us and got out for a chat. I think I remember him saying that most of the interior and some exterior designs on those cars he had produced when working for the company. Stuff like on my XC for example, the exterior badging for the engine size "4.9" on the guards for example was his design, I think also the lettering and badging on the bonnet letters "FORD" and bootlid "FORD - Falcon 500" etc was his design, and there was probably alot more things that he had created or designed for Ford vehicles back in those days. He was quite impressed to see us younger folk interested in these classic original cars that he helped create and design certain things on them back in the good old days of Ford Australia. He also was talking to my mate about his black XB coupe as I think he also owned one when he worked at Ford back in those days. That's one time I won't forget. Sadly Wayne Draper passed away back in 2012. But I think he was a great bloke for taking the time to come out and meet us for a chat that night, and we were glad that he also chatted and gave us some history on our classic Ford cars from the 70's.

Also speaking of Ford putting parts into other vehicles yes I wouldn't be all suprised what they did back in those days, well we all know about what happened to most of the 200 sets of parts that were ready to be fitted to the new XAGTHO phase 4 sedan. When that program got cancelled because of the government putting an end to these supercars, Ford then fitted these Phase 4 parts to the normal GT's as the "RPO 83" option.

My mate once bought a complete XC Cobra 351 Cleveland engine to strip for parts and we pulled it apart in the backyard and noticed that it was fitted with a 4MAB crankshaft. I don't know how special they are but I think they might be slightly stronger or something than the standard 351 cleveland crankshaft.

I also heard some stories that there was also some left over race style 351 Cleveland engine blocks that had thicker castings in the walls or something that were more durable for higher revving racing purposes. Some of these may have ended up in the last Cleveland V8 powered XE Falcons etc. That's some of the things I have heard and seen over the years anyway. I'm sure there is even more secrets and things that went on in those days.

Speaking about those old Ford Fairlanes and LTD's. Yes I think with the XC era LTD with the Rolls Royce front, they came with one driveline option. 351 Clevelend V8 engine, FMX automatic transmission and the Ford 9 inch diff with LSD. haha. I guess they thought if your buying a top of the line LTD you are getting the best and strongest driveline to go with it! lol I think in the ZH Fairlane model you had the option of the smaller 302 V8 if you wanted it. But not on the LTD...lol

That why you rarely ever see a Ford LTD with any of it's driveline still intact at a wrecking yard. The first thing that gets ripped out of those beasts is the good old Ford 9 inch diff, the FMX Automatic transmission and the 351 Cleveland engine. Pretty much all GT running gear in those classic beasts.

Also speaking of the XA's and how they may have rusted out faster etc. I have also heard about how there was alot of work strikes in the 70's at the Ford factory and many bare body shells were left outside or in paddocks outside the factory during the strikes. Then when they went back to work they assembled these bare probably surface rusted body shells into cars for sale. That's just one thing I heard from an old timer a while ago. I'm sure there is also many other stories to hear from back in those days.

Cheers!

I almost got a silver CM Regal in 1993-that looked very good bodily for $200. The owner couldn't get it to pass rego due to the engine blowing smoke due to worn rings.
I regret to this day not getting my slimy hands on it and taking it to my grandmother to store it until I had the funds to fix it. It had the steel sports wheels with the triangular holes, Regal grill and dark blue cordaroy cloth seats, which I have never seen in that colour since.

Hi Mowerfreak,

Yeah isn't it always the way mate, at the time for some reason or another you let something like that go then regret it later. Even me I could have at the time possibly bought an XC coupe instead of a sedan, silly me back then thought it's more practical to buy a sedan as a people mover. I had enough money back then to buy a 2 door coupe. There was even an original clean XC Cobra for sale at one stage for around $9000 back then. It was a bit pricey and it would have probably used up all my money then but look at how collectable and how much they are worth now? I would have loved to owned one of them. I remember someone had one down the road from my school in the 80's and thought wow that looks and sounds like a race car on the road! I remember waiting for it at the kerb so I could here it rumble past me and go into the driveway where the guy lived.

The picture I have added here was available in the local trading post here in Melbourne I think possibly around 2002 or 2003 maybe? Anyway this is true my mate showed me the ad from the trading post and was saying that I should buy it. I thought well it's not much but it did need a full restoration. I also didn't really have the space to store it until maybe one day I had the time and also some more funds to start restoring it. I seriously could have grabbed that car. Even my mate said because I was into XC's I should get it as it's a coupe. Oh well it's another one that slipped away and maybe I should have grabbed it when I had the chance.

Cheers!

How many now would drop the 3.5K on the table instantly eh ????

One thing I always said was Ford built cars to a standard and to retain a reputation while Holden built cars to gain the signature on another buying contract, thus why Holden had the slogan, "Have it your way" and thus was always on top of the sales list every year until 1980 when Ford claimed it due to Commodore being a mid sized car and the HZ finishing production.

Cheers,
BB.

PS. Maybe we should rename this thread to "Motor Cars"

Hi Bonnar_Bloke and Converse,
I remember reading somewhere that in the U.S (and Canada as well presumably) Ford was known for the best build quality during the 70s and 80s out of the big three.
As their slogan went : At Ford, Quality is Job No.1!!

Until the blinkin 88 EA came along. They were truly appalling though nice to drive and reliable in some cases I remember riding in an EA taxi in 88 and immediately noticing the bad quality feel of the plasticky interior bits.
I read that the EB was a vast improvement in quality, Ford had been working on improving it ever since the EA became the poster child for poor build quality in cars. My dad's 92 Fairlane Ghia feels quite sturdy inside.

Then apparently it all went pear shaped again around the time of BA didn't it as that seems to be the general complaint with those that their interior components were back to being rubbish.

My neighbour across the road has supported this same notion as he claims his has a great feel when driving but everything in the interior is just plasticky and falling to bits.

Personally I drove an EA as our Government Group Vehicle and it was a fantastic car to drive and when we had it replaced with a Series II VN Commodore it was like stepping back in to a Flintsone's car. It was crude, noisy and harsh to drive. The NVH was truly dreadful compared to it's Ford counterpart of its day.

Give us back the Falcon everyone cried !

PS the "ED" was probably the shortest lived but best out of that series.

Cheers,
BB.

EA was a good car,I remember getting a new one up to 200 km p/h on a dirt road before that I only
managed 170 km p/h with the new XF ute on the dirt roads ,the Xf had a carby motor but the EA I remember
had multipoint injection,must have been the EA Ghia.

Had a new VN up to 120 km p/h on a dirt road and took a right angled bend in the road ,had the steering
on full lock in the opposite direction and the back end was still sliding around too far so I just spun the
wheel in the full opposite direction to before and spun the car in a few circles until it stopped, the car
stayed on the road that way.

The dirt roads were not public roads so I wouldn't have got a speeding ticket.

I've had a Ford cortina up to 160 km p/h in a grass paddock.

Think I was about 10 when I first drove a car and through our back fence ,my dad was
working on a XY Falcon and told me to get in the car and give it some revs ,so I did
not knowing he had left the auto gear lever in reverse,the car was backed up to the
fence and I flattened it,no damage to the car,I just drove the car forward and picked
up the fence,the fence was old and needed replacing anyway.

Cheers
Max.

I'll have to say as this is the off season for lawnmowers, this thread on cars is certainly keeping the activity going here on ODK I might add.

The EF was a rocket ship if you could forgive the dodgy handing due to bad matching rear axle geometry in relation to the front end, corrected with the EF II.
The dunnydores of the time were too lively at taking off from a standing start for their own good, something Holden strove to tame with each model, where Ford's were better at rolling acceleration and taking the slack up at the higher end.
The VX finally heralded a refined package and the series II addressed the embarrassing negative camber with the rear end, hastened by Peter RTS Hannenberger's directive, instead of having to but mms wait for the cheap feeling and rushed styling of the VY.

G'day everyone,

Good read there Maxwestern, that reminds me also when I was a kid and my dad was working underneath the old HR Holden sedan. I think my dad thought the gearbox was in neutral and he told me to turn the key to start it. Anyway the thing was in first gear or something and the car jumped a bit when I turned the ignition to try and start it. Luckily it stayed on the ramps and dad got out from underneath, he wasn't too happy..lol

Hi Mowerfreak I quite like the old "Peter RTS Hannenburger"...lol

I found this old footage on the old back up hard drive that I recorded back in 2006 when I went to an easter bathurst race weekend with some friends. I think we showed quite a bit of interest in this Allan Moffat race car at the bathurst motor racing museum when we were there that they took this car out and a few others on that weekend for a show and cruise around the track. It's not much footage but I was lucky as I was standing there near that road and I heard the cars coming around the bend and I quickly pressed the record button on the digital camera to capture something of the cars driving past me.

Ahhhhhh.........the most controversial Commodore in the history of motor racing.

Is that the real 05 or car 25 rehashed to look like 05. The argument continues to this day as it went to Auction recently (the Peter Champion version) and it's still not 100% clear who has "The Real 05", The Bathurst Motor Museum or Peter Champion ?

Cheers,
BB.

I came across this today. Guy just paid $9000 for it I was told. It has a V8 with dual exhausts and is a bit rough around the edges -literally. There is rust bubbling where the panel van body meets where the ute tray would start. The lighting is terrible. To much shadow and sunlit background.

G'day Bonnar_Bloke and Mowerfreak,

Hey Bonnar_Bloke you know more about that Commodore than I do mate. I would hope that the one at the Bathurst museum is the original one though. It's an awesome car that Holden VK Commodore. Last of the big banger group c touring cars and a bathurst winner!

Hi Mowerfreak nice looking Panelvan there mate, I guess these days that must be what those sorts of cars are going for even with some rust. I think even back when I bought my XC the panelvans weren't all that common and available for sale. I noticed the old A-shaped tread pattern Yokohama radial 352 tyres on this XC panelvan. I spotted them straight away as I had also fitted those exact same style tyres to my red XC sedan when I had it. I like how the writing is coloured white on the tyres makes them look more like race tyres I guess. Yokohama doesn't make those classic radial 352 tyres anymore with the raised white lettering on the outside.

Speaking of car history I just know a little bit about the history of that Allan Moffat Ford XC Hardtop that's at the museum. I have heard many years ago from a ford racing historian that this car that won bathurst in 1977 and also I think the number 2 XC Falcon Coupe car that Colin Bond drove at bathurst in 1977 were originally the XB race coupes. I'm not sure what exact year they originated but they were the cars that Allan and Colin won almost every touring car round in 1977 before the bathurst 1000. I was told that they updated the XB cars to look like the newer XC falcons just before bathurst 1977. So basically what they updated was the front sheetmetal and grill to the new XC model. They also updated the inside dash panel to the new XC falcon style. The interior door cards weren't touched and they are still the XB type. Also you can tell at the rear of the coupe on the quarter panels on the racecars at bathurst in 1977 they still have the little side marker lights pointing in the vertical direction which is how they were on the XB falcons.

I also heard that they took these 2 Moffat cars to bathurst that year fitted with the reverse bonnet scoops but they were told by cams to remove them as they weren't officially allowed at that time or some other reason. I think they were then fitted to these cars for the later touring car races in 1977 after bathurst. Also i've heard that these cars were then updated to the 2 XC Cobra race cars in 1978 also. I'm not sure if it was still updated after the Cobra to the 1979 Federation insurance XC though.

So anyway that's just some history I have come across over the years on these old Hardtops. So this XC coupe that's in the museum was donated by Allan Moffat to the museum and would most definitely be that original body shell that started out as the XB race car and was updated throughout the years. Now it has been returned back to the 1977 bathurst livery as this was it's most famous victory at bathurst. Also those rear quarter lights on the car at the museum now has the later XC style marker lights where they are fitted in the horizontal direction as they were updated to the later XC style.

Here are some photo's I took at the Bathurst motor racing museum back in 2006. Enjoy!

My dream has been to get a CM and paint it into a former cab livery and make it into a taxi cab!
Not legally of course. I've even obtained a roof sign from the 1970s and an old mechanical taxi meter in readiness for the conversion.
The biggest challenge (apart from getting the car itself these days) is reproducing the cab co-operative's signage for the doors and boot lid from the 1980s period.
I'm prepared to settle for an HJ-HZ Holden or XC Falcon but I think a CM would be the best choice and would attract a tonne of attention at shows. I have even recorded genuine sound effects from the cab radio dispatch to play through the speakers lol, thanks to the 1980 Cabbies documentary.
The final items I'll need is a golfer's hat and to grow a thick moustache when behind the wheel "cruising for fares".

Hi Mowerfreak,

That sounds awesome mate I hope you can maybe one day make that dream come true. It sounds like you have some of the parts already, there is probably still a few CM's out there to be found. I did see a nice clean CM style Valiant sedan here the other day and it had club registration plates on it. I also saw a nice clean XA sedan today with the original early 70's black and white Victorian plates still on it.

You should be able to recreate the original signage for the doors and bootlid if you know what the original one's look like or from a sample maybe. I used to visit a guy that worked on older race cars years ago and he used to recreate the old race car advertising decals using a local signwriter company.

I'm thinking the last few items that you mentioned might be alot easier to obtain...LOL!

Cheers!

Hi Converse, forgot to mention an outfit of brown and beige clobber lol!!

One time I placed an old taxi sign on the roof of my yellow Valiant and took it for a spin one Saturday night just to see people's reactions on the street and let me tell you it turned heads! I even had a man outside the local RSL club actually try to flag me down from quite a long distance and I saw him flipping me off in the rear view mirror after passing him lol!
Then I saw a bunch of guys in a car waiting at lights laughing their heads off at the sight of the taxi sign as I rounded the next corner before heading home!!

LOL! That's a classic mate! You know what I reckon if you really made it into a taxi for use today people would want to travel in your classic original style Valiant cab instead of the regular new boring plastic car taxi's.

Wouldn't it be awesome if you had all 3 models mate, A CM Valiant, a HZ Kingswood and a XC Falcon all in original taxi livery! I reckon you'd be getting people ringing up to place bookings to travel in these Aussie classics again!

How cool would these classic taxi's look lined up at the taxi rank with all the new current taxi's?

It reminds me of a few years ago here in Melbourne they were still running some older electric trains. People loved them and were taking photo's near the train. Those old trains the windows would open on the carriages. I am glad that I got to ride in them a few more times some years ago before they finally stopped running them. I remember those trains when I was a kid and it was like stepping back in time!

Cheers!

Here in Sydney they run vintage double deckers that date from the 1930s to the 1970s on Australia day and young chicks will actually take selfies in front of the radiators at the front of the bus!! I never noticed this in years past. People appreciate retro more than ever. I think many people have a bitter sweet attitude to modern life and see something from the past like this as a much needed transportation to simpler times.
I even had the manager of my local tyre shop marvel at my 89 Laser Ghia sedan and it's condition for it's age. He called it a blast from the past and commented you don't see these anymore, even though it's still my daily(ish) drive.

Hi Mowerfreak,

I have sometimes here seen those red double decker style buses run, I think they are more a tourist thing. Don't know if I have seen them lately though, I think they are from the UK? You know I tried looking on youtube last night and I can't believe I can't find any footage of some classic Melbourne public transport buses from say the late 70's or through the early to mid 80's. I do remember travelling on these classic Melbourne buses when I was younger, they had those deep sinking style vinyl seats. You probably know the one's I am talking about. I am not sure what make they were now maybe Volvo or MAN? They were the nice comfortable style buses before they all went to those seats where it feels like you are sitting on a plank of wood like most modern public transport buses are now.

Yes I think alot of people appreciate retro now. I used to frequent some old op-shops around here some years ago and I would watch how many of these younger generation were always buying retro op-shop items like furniture and other household items to take home. I think many were probably university students and maybe these hipster types. But I tell ya they love the retro items. They were even buying old records and cassettes.

Also you'd be amazed at how much stuff gets thrown in the rubbish bins everyday at these op-shops, simply because they don't have the space to store the items or because they think that no one will buy the items. Once when I was there the dumpster was quite full and you could see the junk near the top of the bin. I could just see a few VHS tapes near the top so I took them out to see what was on them. Anyway one VHS tape I found was an original Nokia 1610 Australia mobile phone advertising training tape. I kept that one. I also found a few VHS tapes that seemed to be from channel 10 here with GMA "Good Morning Australia" outtakes back when Bert Newton was hosting it. They have proper printed labels like they were purchased from the 10 network. I have them here somewhere I did have a look at one a bit back then and I remember it had Bert Newton talking to the crew as he was getting ready before the Morning show. That is just a couple of items that I happened to find on one occasion in an op-shop dumpster. Imagine how many other goodies are thrown out and lost forever at these places.

Cheers!

Hi Converse,
You want to talk buses, I'm the guy. Those MANs you mentioned were the MAN SL200 mark 1 and 2. The Mark 1 had the ugly looking older style body and the mark 2s had the square looking more modern shape and higher horse power engines.
Sydney had hundreds of Mercedes Benz 0305 city buses and I have learned they are basically the same bus chassis and mechanicals but with their own engine ancillaries and different transmission choices.
Other than that, they are very similar underneath.
The Volvo you describe would be the Volvo B59 rear engine bus with the massive destination screen up top.
They had a very advanced (for the time) 9.6 litre turbo charged engine (the MANs were 11.4l NA) let down by a dated 2 speed ZF automatic and talk axle ratio.
I actually rode one with a private operator in Sydney bought second hand from Melbourne and was shocked at how slow these things were from the mark. They later fitted three speed autos to them which made them much more acceptable but still slow due to the tall diffs in them.
I have a 1:76 scale model of a M&MTB Leyland National bus which Melbourne took delivery of 30 units in 1975 and were run until about 1990 when they were retired and sold off to other operators or scrapped.
You probably rode them as well at some point.
Just Google image search Leyland National and you should recognise it. They were once a ubiquitous sight in the UK and some have been preserved and restored there.