OutdoorKing Repair Forum Forums Restoring, Customising and Modifying Reel-Type Mowers SB 45 RAT REEL - Rebuild First Timer

Hi Pete, I think that is a good idea....Perhaps as you have done spin-griding before, the machinist may allow you to watch how he faces the bed-knife mate. Then you could do it yourself in future...Might be worth an ask...

Spoke to the local mower shop today who have been servicing cylinder mowers for way longer than I've been taking in oxygen, and they have confirmed the bed knife needs only a ground straight edge, true or not this is easily achievable on our workshop, so will perform the entire task in house and save some $$

Just curious how much you paying for a cylinder and bed knife re-sharp ?

Cheers

Hi Pete, I am lucky I have been using the same engineer/machinist for many years, and I guess he looks after me, for both the reel and bedknife, $80.00...which is not expensive, to achieve a quality cut.

The engineer I use does both surfaces of the bedknife, the upper surface is ground to ensure perfect flatness and soothness, to conform to the cylinder reel; and the front edge (where the cutting actually takes place) to a true straight edge.
Here is something for you to ponder:

Myth: New bedknives are �true� and don�t require grinding.

Fact: �New bedknives are certainly not true coming from the factory. Every bedknife that gets installed on a bed bar needs to be ground properly in order to achieve a consistent quality of cut. The bedknife is the single most important factor in achieving a great quality of cut. The bedknife�s job is to position the grass before the reel blade cuts it. Depending on where the position is will depend on how clean and consistent your turfs after cut appearance will look."

Bedknives will take the shape of the existing bed bar once tightened. By grinding the bed knife properly it will give you a smooth surface that you will then align to a reel that has been ground to a true cylinder. Once this is complete you will have 2 perfectly aligned surfaces that can achieve the quality of cut that everyone is looking for. It is very important that the bed knife is ground to its proper angle (manufacturer�s recommendations) in order to maintain high quality turf grass.

Hey Pete, I've found the price can vary quite a bit. The most I've paid is $110. I went with Darryl's advice and spoke to the local bowls club and golf courses and got a terrific contact. As long as I can leave it for the week they only charge me $33 for the reel and $15 for the bedknife. I also try and take 4 or 5 with me so that I get treated as more of a trade customer.

Hi Michael, that is a fantastic price mate, it sure pays to shop around doesn't it!

Absolutely Darryl, I never would've thought to ask the local green keepers, if it wasn't for your suggestion. And price aside, I've been happiest with the work also.

Hi Michael, glad to be of help mate!
Hopefully our other ODK members will do the same and find the best solution for their re-grinding needs.

Bit of progress...
Tidied up frame a lttle, deburred and bogged, sanded and primed.
Ground back the spot weld that lies in the path of the side cover,
planning on gasketing the side cover as they dont seal all that great !

Also ground back the ugly welds on the RHS for a better final finish.

Hi Pete, great work so far mate....the chassis frame is immaculate...

One thing has tweaked my interest....What is a 'bent lip' sole blade?

As an aside, the quickest way to prep the reel prior to powder coating is by sand or bead blasting...you just need to get it to the powder coaters quickly before light surface rust sets in...also a light spin grind will be necessary afterwards to restore the cutting edge.

Pete, be careful that you do not fully seal the chain case - you will have to provide a breather. With temperature and humidity changes, you'll get condensation and rust in there otherwise. The original system let dirt in, but it also allowed a movement of air which was beneficial. The ideal answer would be a flow of clean air through the housing.

Thanks Deejay, the sole blade has a raised lip on the cutting edge, I will have photos next week, they are common on industrial mowers, they are more robust and last longer.

As for air flow through the side case, I can always machine up or retro fit a breather, but I dont think it will be too much of an issue as I regually remove the side case and clean/re-grease and inspect...time will tell i guess.

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I agree Pete, as long as you check the interior regularly, it isn't hard to see condensation if you are looking for it. Keeping the dirt out is certainly an attractive idea.

If you find it gets damp, not only can you then fit a breather - you can keep watch to see if that fixes the problem, and do development work if you need to. A whole new hobby, in one move.

Hi Pete, and ODK members,
From your illustration, for this bedknife to work correctly, it would seem to need contact between the cylinder reel and the bent-lip blade.

From my research, I have heard of this type of blade being used on the out-rigger types of fairway cylinder mowers (eg. John Deere, Toro, etc.) but not to my knowledge on greens mowers, both golf and bowling, which use a bedknife with a straight vertical edge.

From what ive been told They work great on residential mowers, Keogh's sell them for SB45's, but they are not cheap.
I thought thats how they all worked...contact from reel to knife ?? Am i missing something here?

Hi Pete and ODK members,
This subject can open up a can of worms and much debate....

Pete, there are 2 schools of thought here, those who advocate light contact between the cylinder reel and bedknife and those who advocate minimum clearance between the two.
I belong to the latter school...and I will give you the reasons behind my thinking.
The following is a direct quote from a leading turf magazine....
Myth: You must have contact between cylinder and bedknife.

Fact: �You do not need contact between the reel and bedknife to cut turf grass. Contact between the reel and bedknife will generate heat which will have many effects on not only the turf grass, but also on the traction unit. The heat generated between the reel and bedknife will tinge the leaf blade. Also that heat can cause the bedknife to expand which will tighten the cutting unit up even more. The tighter the reel - bedknife contact, the more strain this puts on the traction unit which can cause hydraulic hose failure and premature failure of the hydraulic system or wear on chains and sprockets�.

Contact between cylinder and bedknife causes drag requiring greater effort to turn the reel and in turn this greater effort has an adverse effect on drive-lines and engines. This drag also leads to rapid wear and loss of sharp edges, as well as a poor quality of cut. With contact you have the undesirable �scissor� action instead of the desired �scything� action. It is the scissor action which damages the turf plant and can prolong the healing process.

Here is a video that fellow Moderator Joe Carroll and I put together to show the adjustment procedure we use, at the end of the video, you will see my SB 45 in action....
Click HERE

Pete, which method you use, contact or minimal clearance is up to you....this thread is to give you food for thought.

I do like a good can of worms

I've spoken to a few green keepers on this issue and they were of the opinion that the manufacturers guidelines should be followed. In this case that would mean light contact.

I live close to the former PGA golf course at Coolum and also a very nice course at Twin Waters. I had the opportunity to watch the reel adjustment on an extremely expensive Toro greens mower and it's amazing how finely tuned they are. I know that Toro specify contact but I believe John Deere do not.

The Scott Bonanr instructions state "The blades maintain a better edge so long as they are lightly touching the bottom blade. They become blunted and dull when they are no longer making contact, caused by the grass being "dragged" through and not cut cleanly."

This is taken from the Toro technical training manual - "If there is no contact (a gap between bedknife and reel blade) it can result in faster wear of the cutting edges and more frequent grinding. No contact results in the leaves of the grass plant being pinched or torn rather than cleanly cut. This causes poor quality of cut and can actually accelerate the wear process of the cutting edges. The result? Deteriorating aftercut appearance and leaf tissue damage which is detrimental to the long term health of the turf."

Here is a summary of the the findings from an Iowa State University study on the topic. They found that a sharpened reel with light contact consistently gave the best visual quality with the least injury to the turf. A dull reel and bedknife with light contact also outperformed a sharpened reel and bedknife with no contact in the same test.

And here is some other balanced info [color:#3333FF]"Is it a scythe or a scissor cut"[/color]

It's something that's interested me so I've experimented a bit with it on a few different mowers now. I think the most important thing is that you take the time to get the adjustment as close as possible, no matter which method you go with. I'm not sure I believe that heat generated from contact will tinge the leaf blade - and I think the university study confirms that. I agree that having contact does put greater stress on the mower and its components, but with SB advising this method, I'm not concerned by it.

Oh and don't worry about a hydraulic hose failure on your 45

Hi Micheal, and ODK members,

I hinted, at the outset, that this debate will go on forever, and we have, at OutdoorKing, over the years, gone through this many, many times.

In the end, use whatever method you are comfortable with, but I will add this...Scott Bonnar ceased production back in 1983 at Thebarton...and a lot of methods used back then are not practiced now in 2014....Reel to bedknife adjustment is not easy, particularly for a newcomer to reel mowers.

As I mentioned, I've experimented with both. I have my 14" (that I use out the front) adjusted with no contact and my 17" (that I use out the back) setup with light contact.

To be totally honest I can't pick the difference between them. They both cut well and both appear to have maintained a nice edge considering the amount I use them. If we were measuring the differences with a microscope on a professionally maintained green, I think we may see a difference one way or the other. In the real world on a home lawn, I really don't think it will matter.

Due to the fact that the no contact method will put a little less strain on the mower itself, I would still lean towards a no contact method personally.

But I do like a can of worms!

Hey Michael, so do I mate!

With the experiences you've had with both set-ups, I think you will see what I was getting at with Peettee's post #53199 on Page 2 of this thread....with its curled up lip at the front edge, I feel it will need contact for it to work properly.

With a normal Scotty 45 bedknife set-up, the very top edge of the front vertical face, is where the cutting action takes place. With a bent-lip bedknife, the grass sward would tend (I imagine) to be pushed upwards and perhaps away from the bedknife....

I have spoken earlier this afternoon to 2 greenskeeper friends of mine...and both work at Bowling Clubs, both have replied that the bent-lip bedknife would be unsuitable for use on a green, in their opinion.

As you have pointed out, "In the real world on a home lawn, I really don't think it will matter.
All good stuff mate....