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Joined: May 2011
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I went to visit a friend of mine the other day, and whilst there, he showed me this old edger he had in the back shed, it's quite an interesting one, does anyone know more about it? The manufacturer plate was missing, all i can say is that it had a 2-stroke Kirby-Lawson engine, and used steel-core rubber sheath rope instead of blades, which, judging by the brackets used for the rope, is how it was supposed to work, not a tenant fix. Here is some pictures, sorry for the quality, I only had my phone with me. By memory, we worked out the engine to be late 60's from the serial, but I can't find the paper i noted it down on. ![[Linked Image]](https://www.outdoorking-forum.com.au/forum/uploads/usergals/2011/10/full-5013-4067-29102011013.jpg) ![[Linked Image]](https://www.outdoorking-forum.com.au/forum/uploads/usergals/2011/10/full-5013-4068-29102011012.jpg) ![[Linked Image]](https://www.outdoorking-forum.com.au/forum/uploads/usergals/2011/10/full-5013-4069-29102011011.jpg) ![[Linked Image]](https://www.outdoorking-forum.com.au/forum/uploads/usergals/2011/10/full-5013-4070-29102011006.jpg) ![[Linked Image]](https://www.outdoorking-forum.com.au/forum/uploads/usergals/2011/10/full-5013-4071-29102011005.jpg) ![[Linked Image]](https://www.outdoorking-forum.com.au/forum/uploads/usergals/2011/10/full-5013-4072-29102011004.jpg) ![[Linked Image]](https://www.outdoorking-forum.com.au/forum/uploads/usergals/2011/10/full-5013-4073-29102011003.jpg) ![[Linked Image]](https://www.outdoorking-forum.com.au/forum/uploads/usergals/2011/10/full-5013-4074-29102011010.jpg) ![[Linked Image]](https://www.outdoorking-forum.com.au/forum/uploads/usergals/2011/10/full-5013-4075-29102011009.jpg) ![[Linked Image]](https://www.outdoorking-forum.com.au/forum/uploads/usergals/2011/10/full-5013-4076-29102011007.jpg) ![[Linked Image]](https://www.outdoorking-forum.com.au/forum/uploads/usergals/2011/10/full-5013-4077-29102011008.jpg)
Cheers
Ty
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Joined: Jan 2009
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Bits of the design are interesting, Ty. The layout is the same as the Alroh Imp, but a lot cruder. Since my Imp is from 1963, and the one you've just documented may be a bit newer than that, it seems like it may be a bush league "me too" copy. I had the vague idea that the center-hinged frame that gives the height adjustment was patented by Alroh, but if it were your discovery would seem to be an infringement, so perhaps they didn't patent it. I like the general idea of the clamped piece of wire cable used as a cutting blade, because it would be cheap and easy to replace, but I doubt it could be executed in a way that meets my safety expectations, and most people wouldn't like the wide slots down the sides of their lawn (though personally I think I'd rather like it). Here is my Imp (before I brush-painted it to cure the rusting): ![[Linked Image]](https://www.outdoorking-forum.com.au/forum/uploads/usergals/2011/10/full-2772-4081-alroh_imp_edger.jpg) Here is Alroh's brochure image of the Imp (which seems to be a later one than mine): ![[Linked Image]](https://www.outdoorking-forum.com.au/forum/uploads/usergals/2011/10/full-2772-4082-alroh_imp_page_1.jpg)
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Joined: Oct 2010
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Junior Technician
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Geez grumpy it looks like it has a decent size blade swinging on it.
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 6,926 Likes: 10
Pushrod Honda preferrer
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Yes, it has 2 pairs of tapped holes, diametrically opposite on a big steel disk about half an inch thick. One pair of holes is on a larger radius than the other. The blades start off about (Edited for accuracy:) 6" long. When you get to maximum depth setting with them mounted on the smaller swing radius, you move the blades and mounting bolts out to the larger radius. When you run out of depth setting using the larger radius, it's time for a new pair of blades. Do you know where you can get 1.5" wide, 16 gauge spring steel? I might use it more if I had a cheap source of blades. It does a great job of cutting concrete, but the blade wear rate gets pretty high when you do that.
Last edited by grumpy; 04/11/11 01:17 AM. Reason: Correct the length dimesion
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Joined: Oct 2010
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Junior Technician
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How thick is 16 gauge??
More important could be the hole diameter. Im sure you could use mower blades off some sort of slasher or side throw as long as they have the right hole diameter.
How long are they. The long blades for the old rover side throws come to mind.
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Joined: Jan 2009
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Pushrod Honda preferrer
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16 British Standard Wire Gauge is 1/16". It is the only wire gauge that works for, but the higher the number, the thinner the sheet. So, they are about the same thickness as a mower blade. The width isn't actually important, but the wider it is, the longer it lasts.
They are probably less than a foot long - I haven't seen new ones, just used the ones that were on it when I bought it for $20 on ebay, and they were 6". The hole diameter isn't critically important, since it uses bushes - the bolts clamp the bushes to the rotating plate, and the blades swing on the bushes. Making a pair of bushes is not much of a challenge since I have an old toolroom lathe. If the holes were too small I'd probably drill them out - I've sometimes drilled holes in spring steel quite successfully using magic arts.
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Joined: Oct 2010
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Junior Technician
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Id love to know that magic art. I stuffed a 10mm drill bit trying to open up a 5/16 hole in a bar blade not long back. Nah the rover ones are only about 6" or so long. A lot of the blades ive seen come from JakMax. Perhaps you could contact them to get onto a manufacturer http://www.jakmax.com.au/I wont say im a fan of their push mower blades, id sooner the BPL ones, they are thicker and id say harder, they dont tend to bend as easy. But they would be better than nothing. If its just a straight blade with a hole in the end it should be easy.
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Joined: Jan 2009
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Pushrod Honda preferrer
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The magic art for drilling holes in spring steel consists of using an ordinary masonry drill bit (i.e. brazed-on carbide tip, which is always sharpened with negative rake), running the drill pretty fast, and keeping the cutting edge submerged in oil. It chews rather than drills, and is therefore quite slow. Don't let the pool of oil go away, or the tip will immediately heat up and melt the braze joint holding the carbide tip to the SAE1040 drill bit.
It works because of the negative top rake of the carbide tip, which prevents digging in and developing high torque on the drill bit. The carbide stands up pretty well - I've drilled 3/16" holes in two pieces of 3/4" diameter spring steel bar without resharpening along the way, though I had to sharpen it after finishing the pair of them.
I hasten to disclose I didn't invent this, it's a standard trick of the trade in small machine shops.
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 6,362 Likes: 10
Administrator - Master Technician
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Hi grumpy, is it possible to date Kirby-Tecumseh engines by the serial numbers as you can with a Briggs? 
Please do not PM me asking for support. Please post your questions in the appropriate forums, as the replies it may receive may help all members, not just the individual member. Kindest Regards, Darryl 
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Joined: Jan 2009
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Pushrod Honda preferrer
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I don't know how the serial numbers work, Deejay. It appears the first letter in the model number is V or H for vertical or horizontal crankshaft, the second is simply K for Kirby (i.e. made under licence by James N. Kirby) and the final two numbers are the alleged horsepower. The serial numbers seem to have been Kirby's, not Tecumseh-Lauson's, so you could only break the code on them by use of information from the Kirby company.
Fortunately I haven't yet encountered an Alroh Imp with a Lauson engine - they used Briggs, even back in 1962, when they must have been paying a lot of import duty to do so.
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Joined: Jul 2005
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Administrator - Master Technician
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That's a shame, I thought we might be able to narrow down the year on this one....however SB were using Kirby-Tecumseh from 1960 with the Model 33 but they were 4 strokes....I haven't had much to do with the Kirby 2 strokes like this one. 
Please do not PM me asking for support. Please post your questions in the appropriate forums, as the replies it may receive may help all members, not just the individual member. Kindest Regards, Darryl
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Joined: May 2011
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I'll try and get some clearer pictures of this one, Plus it's serial number in the near futre. It may take me a few weeks to get back there though, I'm currently moving house. That Imp from the brochure looks to be the exact same one I picked up the other day, I'll be able to grab photo's of it tonight hopefully. Here's the best shot of it I have on me right now. ![[Linked Image]](https://www.outdoorking-forum.com.au/forum/uploads/usergals/2011/11/full-5013-4115-sdd.png)
Cheers
Ty
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Joined: Jan 2009
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I've a suspicion that mine is almost a prototype Ty, and the one in the brochure is the usual one. The serial number of mine is 4IEB641038. On checking I find my Briggs was made in March 1963. I suspect the edger was made very early in 1964, and may have been only their thirty-eighth attempt. I raised the subject with the manufacturer, but their response was just to refer to it as "this old edger", which convinced me they weren't interested in the subject.
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Joined: May 2011
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They Rarely are, I've contacted Victa a few times over the last few years looking for, or to provide information on their history, or models, and all I have ever gotten is a generic little read out of how "Victa began in 1952 with the Invention of the worlds first rotary mower, and is still today one of Australia's most recognised brands"
A sentence I'm finding less and less validity in as i find out more about the history of the rotary mower.
Cheers
Ty
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Joe Carroll
Unregistered
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That edger is a goodun Ty, I like yours better though, when we found that I wanted it and didnt even know you had already picked it out 
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Joe Carroll
Unregistered
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Take not on the first edger that started this thread, it has a rover snorkel and air filter housing, maybe they had something to do with it.
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Joined: Jan 2009
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Pushrod Honda preferrer
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Bob, with regard to edger blades, Alroh still makes them as spare parts for the later Imp version that Ty has, and they are available from the Outdoorking online store, along with the mounting hardware: https://www.outdoorking-forum.com.au/index.p...s_id=48&zenid=7i76no4d29kvt2bpr4iav0iq42I actually measured my blades and I think they were probably only 6" long when new, and are about 4.5" now. I'm trying to figure out how the replacements can be 1/2" thick, as the online store listing says, when the replacement retaining bushes are the same as mine and only allow for 16 gauge blades. It is a puzzlement. Ty, can you tell me how thick the blades are on your Imp please?
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Joined: Jan 2009
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Pushrod Honda preferrer
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Joe, if you are interested in my Imp, we could arrange a swap. I just don't have enough straight-run edges to use it.
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Joined: Jul 2005
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Administrator - Master Technician
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A sentence I'm finding less and less validity in as i find out more about the history of the rotary mower. Amen to that, Ty
Please do not PM me asking for support. Please post your questions in the appropriate forums, as the replies it may receive may help all members, not just the individual member. Kindest Regards, Darryl
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Joined: May 2011
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I'll get those photo's up, and mesure the blades tonight Grumpy, but by memory, they are pretty thin, I wouldnt think more than 5/64. Darryl, this little blurb (Wikipedia) sums it up fairly well in my mind: Rotary mowers were not developed until engines were small enough and powerful enough to run the blades at a high speed. Many people experimented with rotary blades in the late 1920s and early 1930s, and Power Specialties Ltd. introduced a gasoline-powered rotary mower. Kut Kwick replaced the saw blade of the “Pulp Saw” with a double-edged blade and a cutter deck, converting the “Pulp Saw” into the first ever out-front rotary mower.[6] One company that produced rotary mowers commercially was the Australian Victa company, starting in 1952: these mowers were lighter and easier to use than the mowers that came before. The first Victa mowers were made at Mortlake (Sydney) by local resident Mervyn Victor Richardson. He made the first out of scrap in his garage and then moved to a shed behind St Mary's Church of England, where the first Victa mowers were manufactured and went on sale on 20 September 1952. The new company, Victa Lawnmowers Pty Ltd, was incorporated on 13 February 1953. The venture was so successful that by 1958 the company moved to much larger premises in Parramatta Road, Concord and then to Milperra.[7] Two Victa mowers, from 1958 and 1968 respectively, are held in the collection of the National Museum of Australia.[8] The Victa mower is regarded as something of an Australian icon, appearing en masse at the opening of the Sydney Olympic Games in 2000. The early 1930's rotary mower made by Power Specialities, was the first Rotoscythe (not mine) Power Specialities made rotoscythe's up till the late 50's I beleive.
Cheers
Ty
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