OutdoorKing Repair Forum Forums Repairs and Maintenance Questions On Ride On Mowers Questions on Greenfield Ride On Mower Frames Greenfield Drive Problem

Hi all,
I have a Greenfield Evolution around 5 years old with a Honda 16 V twin engine with around 180 hours on it and it's been great. I'm now starting to have a frustrating problem I hope someone could help me with.

When I try to climb hills sometimes it has heaps of power and other times it's almost got nothing. I go to accelerate and the wheels won't move. Then I drop the revs for a minute and try again and it roars up the hill. I also notice the forward pedal seems to get stuck in gear if you call it that and I have to tap on the reverse till it frees off or disengages. Could anyone please help me if this sounds familiar.

I'm sure it has nothing to do with the motor as it still runs like new but it has to do with the drive system. Thanks

Can you give us a few details please? First, when the mower goes slowly uphill, does the engine still run at full speed, or does it run slowly when the mower runs slowly? In other words, is this a problem of lack of engine speed, or of transmission slippage?
Second, please give us full model details, and tell us what kind of transmission it has. A picture of the mower would also help.

Hi Grumpy,
thanks as you can see I'm new on here. When It's cold at first it's fine then after a few climbs it starts and I can tell as soon as I take off before the climb I can feel it doesn't have the power or torque and gets up so far and just stops dead.

But the motor sounds perfect and also as I said and I don't know if it is just a coincidence the power pedal also sticks and when I take my foot of it just sits there and wont roll back down till I keep tapping the pedal in reverse and you can hear it click off and release then it rolls back down.

When I drop the revs and mow on the flat it's fine and then it will power up and take the hill again once or twice then it happens again. As far as the transmission I'm not sure if these have one but I've attached pics of the mower if that helps. It's about 5 years old thanks again

Jason

Just a quick question, how old are your drive belts? (the belts that go from the engine to the drive system)

I've found that at least some E2000 16 hp Greenfields have approximately the same drive system as other Greenfields: mechanical drive based on large forward and reverse clutches driven by a single V-belt that goes through a right angle by use of skew pulleys. That means that if the engine keeps running when the mower stops, either the drive belt or the clutch is slipping. I'm guessing the pictures in these two threads should be much the same as on your mower:

https://www.outdoorking-forum.com.au/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=20076&page=1

https://www.outdoorking-forum.com.au/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=21336&page=1

Can you confirm that your drive is like this one, please. If it is, we need to know whether your drive belt (the one from the crankshaft pulley to the two big clutches) is touching the bottom of the groove in the crankshaft pulley. If it is bottoming, it will slip and cause loss of drive, especially after warm-up. If it has that layout but the belt is not bottoming, it is possible that something is wrong with the pair of drive clutches. We can probably help you sort that out if that is the problem.

Please let us know the answers, and send pictures of the underside of the V belt - we may be able to tell if it has been slipping.

Thanks Grumpy and Joe for helping,
Yes it works on exact same principle with discs under the seat and cork clutch. I'm fairly sure it is not the drive belt slipping as I just put on a new one and it still does the same and it is nice and tight. The funny thing is as soon as I take off before I even start the climb I can feel the difference in the power and take off. It seems not to be slipping but more like I'm being slowed up like I'm towing something (and this one doesn't have a brake).

I feel it has something to do with that clutch and the pedal sticking on forward. There is plenty of cork thickness and when it is not running the pedal clutch system seems to move and changing across well and loosley. But when running and only up the steep climb it sticks in gear and I have to tap on the reverse till it clunks and lets go. But it does not seem to do this on flat areas or small climbing slopes.

It just seems funny that I go up the climb and it just effortlessly goes up and I can come around again and it struggles and comes to a daed stop half way up like I'm suddenly dragging something behind me. Thanks again all for taking the time to help

Jason

Jason, if the engine does not slow down and the mower does, the belt or clutch must be slipping. The involvement of the clutch pedal feel suggests it is the clutch, not the belt. Also, the behaviour of the clutch pedal suggests it is a linkage problem rather than the clutch itself. The clutch linkage is most likely either worn or needs adjustment. It sounds as if you are pushing the pedal all the way down to get any drive, and the linkage is on the verge of going over-center somewhere, so you are not getting proper pressure from the pedal to the clutch plate. It might be that the screw-adjustment on the end of the pull-rod is wrong, and this is causing the over-center action. If not, there may be too much lost motion due to loose joints. Can you take a look at the linkage, try to find somewhere it can just about go over-center, and post pictures of it please? Once you find where it is happening, we can talk about how to fix it: whether it is a matter of adjustment, or too much lost motion due to slack.

Hi Grumpy,
I take it from what you are saying that there is meant to be an adjustment for the chain that is inside the rear left wheel but all there is is a large cog the chain is going around and a little one on top which turns with the clutch and that's it.

Also the chain has some loose slack in it as you can see to the right part of the pic below. You will also notice to the left of the chain (toward the front of the mower) there are some holes in the frame where it seems maybe this chain tightening adjustment may go.

Do I get the feeling we are onto something or am I getting excited for nothing?

aussie I think you are getting excited about the wrong thing rather than having nothing to get excited about. I think the most likely place for the problem to be, is in the linkage that connects the forward-reverse control pedal to the forward and reverse clutches. This linkage has an adjustment at the rear of the pull-rod that runs from the front pedal pivot to the link at the back that operates the clutch fork between the two clutches. The adjustment is a pair of locknuts on a thread on the end of the rod. It is possible that you can reduce or overcome the problem by adjusting these locknuts, but before you mess about with them it would be best to look at each part of the linkage itself, to see whether each bit of it is working through a proper range of angles.

I said that I think part of the linkage might be on the verge of going over-center. What that means is that the lever, for example, attached to the side of the control pedal, works through a range of angles when you work the pedal. If the linkage is properly set up, most likely the range of angles for forward will be much the same as the range of angles for reverse. If, by bad luck or bad judgement by someone who has adjusted it, the range of angles is not the same for forward and reverse, you may find that the link lays right down when you push the clutch pedal hard in the forward direction, so the lever and the push-rod are nearly in line. If that is happening, you need to adjust the lock-nuts on the other end of the push-rod so they do not get nearly in line even when you push the pedal with full force. Then you need to push it with full force toward reverse, and check that it is not coming close to getting in line with the push-rod at that end of the adjustment either. Most likely, with correct adjustment it will be about halfway between those two extremes.

There can also be similar issues at the other end of the push-rod, in the linkage connecting the push-rod to the clutch fork.

Before you adjust or change anything, can you please post some pictures of the various linkage pivots, at the two ends of the pedal movement (forward and reverse)? Then we can see if my first guess is right, and it will also give us a comparison with what it looks like after adjustment.

I'm guessing that there may have been some amateur adjustment of the linkage - someone may have messed it up, trying to reduce the pedal force that you need to apply to make it go forward. This sort of thing seems like a good idea at the time, but turns out not to be after normal wear occurs in the linkage.

Hi Aussie, it would be a good idea to tension that chain up as well. It would be doing your sprockets no favours. How are the teeth looking on the large sprocket?

It also looks quite dry. They should be lubed up regularly. People use the comment that dirt sticks to lube and ruins them, It terms of chains, after riding dirt bikes for years, lube extends their life considerably.

Hi guys, i've had a couple of greenfields and the first one i had used to get stuck in forward, very similar to the description here, turned out after MUCH swearing, bashing, banging, removing of the drive system that one of the pressure springs in between the small and large forward drive pulleys was bad and it eventually got stuck in forward and wouldnt come oout, hence the removal of the drive system. the spring got twisted up and would not disengage the drive. VERY DANGEROUS depending on where you are driving and how steep etc. I removed the spring and put another in and replaced some of the shimms, all good. I found that i had to oil between the small corked plates and the centre bearing every so often to keep the corked plates and the centre bearing free to slide across the axle and back to correct position. push corked plate outwards to the big one, Drop some oil on axle between small plate and bearing, let it come back to centre or push it back if need be and work it across again and back till it slides well, do the same with the other side (DON'T get oil on the plates, just the axle) I found i had to do this esp whilst/after cutting in dusty - sandy areas. i suppose in reality if you oil this spot it will COLLECT dust sand etc but thats what i did with mine and it worked.

Just some input for you...

Gary

Thanks Gary, so far as the lube problem for the clutch hubs goes, I agree it is bad if you oil it (dirt in oil makes valve grinding compound) and bad if you don't (gets corroded and sticky). I think something like Dri-slide or a similar product may be the answer. These are squirtable liquids that dry up almost instantly, leaving graphite or molybdenum disulphide powder behind.

aussie's Greenfield has a serious clutch slip problem - this could be caused either by jamming of the clutch hub, or by a linkage problem. I'd like to see him check out the linkage and ensure it's working properly before suggesting he strips the clutch shaft and cleans/replaces the parts on it. I certainly agree he may have to end up taking the whole thing apart, but I'm hoping to find that the problem is easier to fix than that. (I suppose I have an ulterior motive, too: no one has worked on the clutch linkage or posted pictures of it yet, and it would make a nice addition to the archive.) Of course it is up to aussie what he does: he may just look at the clutches while operating the pedals, and see them sticking even when the linkage is free. So long as we find out what is wrong in the end, get pictures of it, and aussie gets his mower back into top shape, it's all good.

Aussie
If it is like my older model 13-32.
The tension adjustment for the chain is at the rear of the mower.
Need to loosen locknuts on each side on bearing retainer, then tighten (both side) nut on threaded rod at the rear of mower. Each side should be done equal amounts so axle is square etc etc, i left about 3 mm play in mine. Lube it up and good to go.
As for your other problems I have no idea, my model has no adjustment in the pedal attachment???I don't think. seems to be solid linkages right through.
Keep us posted i am intereted to hear the outcome..
My clutch pads look OK from the outside but ARE worn and i have a bit of travel between F + R. I do have to put more prssure on F than reverse but nothing inconsistant like yours???
Go the Greenfields

Thanks Beerpig, you caused me to look at the manual instead of relying on memory. I can't find the locknut adjustment at the back of the clutch rod in the Greenfield parts list, I must have been thinking of another mower. This pic is the E2000 linkage.



I must recant, aussie. I suggest you check your linkage for any bits that have come loose, worn out, or are stuck or misaligned. If you can't find a fault in the linkage, I think you will need to get in amongst the clutches themselves, following the process used in previous threads. Can you let us know what you find in the linkage inspection, with pictures if possible? If the answer is that you didn't find anything, can you post a picture or two of the clutches? You would be moving the clutch pedal back and forth, and watching what happens: the clutch fork will move sideways and you will be looking mainly at the rear of the fork and the centre of the clutch disks, looking for differences between when you push the pedal for forward, and when you push it for reverse.

Grumpy you may have been thinking of my Greenfield seeing we only just covered it. It has the adjustable screw locknut on the rod running from the pedal. Just for the record it seems a more simple setup on mine.

Having the minute amount of experience I have with these machines I would be looking into the guts of the clutch system.
If anything, if it hasn't been apart for the life if the machine it would be a good time for an inspection and service.

Firstly I just want to thank everyone again for their input I really appreciate it. I have attached pics below and to me it seems all the linkages are operating fine. I was pushing the pedal from forward to reverse with the motor off and the clutch seems to go across to each clutch fine and clamps quite well when I try to push it with the pedal still having more room to go down and not being flat to the floor.

Another thing I also didn�t mention is sometimes even on a flat area when I try to take off from a dead stop it struggles and doesn't want to go then once it gradually starts rolling it then takes off and is fine. It�s like it needs some slight momentum first before it can take off and doesn�t like moving from a dead stop.

Could it be the cork surface needs cleaning because it�s not gripping tight enough?

First point: that belt seem to be sitting rather deep in the pulleys. aussie, you said it is a new belt: are you sure it is the right section size (i.e., width of belt)? And is it the right length, so the tensioning device is well within its movement range? If the belt is bottoming in the drive or driven pulley, or if the belt tension is less than it should be, you will get approximately the problem you are having.

With regard to the clutches, I've had clutches slip at full clamping force if they had oil on them. Your current problem could be due to having oil on the friction material of the forward clutch, but not the reverse clutch. However if one of them were that oily I think you'd see it: oil would be thrown out of it when it was running, and would make a mess around the clutch. I see no sign of that near your clutches. The other reasons for clutches to slip are insufficient clamping pressure, too much torque to transmit, or too much heat due to having run too long in a slipping condition. (In my foolish youth I learned that if you speed-shifted a Holden 202 cubic inch 6 (red motor) with a four speed manual transmission from a standing start, by the third acceleration run the clutch took a while to bite when you shifted into third and fourth. The clutch was hot by then.) Considering those possibilities in sequence, lack of clamping pressure is quite likely if your clutch disk is, for example, seized onto the central shaft. Your clutch could only be overloaded by too much torque if your rear axle or chain drive had seized up, and if that happened it would probably affect reverse as well as forward movement. Your clutch is slipping even from a cold start, so I don't think it is an overheating problem.

That seems to point to two things worth looking at. First, with the engine not running and the clutch pedal not pushed, is your mower easy to push both forward and backward? If so, it probably isn't a jammed drive train. Second, when you push the pedal forward and backward, does it have the same amount of reserve travel in both directions, or does it come much closer to the end of its movement in the forward direction? Is the friction material of the forward clutch the same thickness as for the reverse clutch?

Greetings all ... I'm a total novice but having identical issue with my Rover Rancher Auto Drive

I noticed that my problem only happened going forwards ... when reversing uphill the mower will climb until the wheels lose traction (so belts must be ok?) .. have you tried this?

I have rebuilt the drive with new corks, bearings, sprocket and chain and was still the same !!! by a process of expensive elimination i have concluded that its the linkage mechanism (threaded rod thingy as described above)

I hazard a guess that your problem is due to linkage , glazing or oil on the cork, or possibly binding of the clutch plate on the drive shaft.

Try adjusting the linkage first (like I should have) and if you have to take it apart swap the clutch and drive plates around upon re-assembly .. they are identical on my mower ...

good luck!

Hi Wonga, and welcome to Outdoorking. There is a lot of good sense in what you've said. In the case of aussie's Greenfield, it has the later type of clutch linkage that is not adjustable (I was following the same line of thinking as you were until I found that out).

The Greenfield mowers use a system of forward and reverse clutches rather than a slipping belt system as most other mowers do. This means they can last a lot longer without new parts, but it is necessary to understand how they work, and repairs are more time-consuming when the clutches finally wear out.

We haven't completely worked out all that is happening to aussie's mower, but I currently have a theory that I haven't explained because we haven't yet clarified the current status of the machine. Posting "solutions" before you have the symptoms and circumstances clear is untidy (though it often works, and fairly often actually saves time). Yes, I know, I'm a victim of my own training as an engineer: it's warped my thinking. Freud would have said I'm suffering from a type of anal retentiveness.

Thanks again all,
Grumpy yes it rolls very easy when motor is off forward and back. The belt I got from a Greenfield dealer and gave him the code of the mower and looking at the thickness is the same as the other 2 old ones I have and is very tight with still some room on the sliding pulley adjustment for more tightening.

Also you thought I mentioned this problem happens cold or hot but It doesn't seem to happen at first. The first 2 or 3 climbs it can climb well then it gets up about half way and stops dead with no wheels turning and motor still running perfect. If I leave it and mow the flat for a minute and go back to it, it climbs up well again another once or twice and then happens again and sticks in forward gear and wont roll back down until I tap the pedal in reverse and it clunks off and releases.

Another thing I notice is if I lower the power down and drop the revs it seems to help to climb a bit better when it starts happening.

There is no oil around the clutch and the pedal system to the clutch all seems tight and operating very well and responsive. When motor is off it rolls very easy forward and back and when I hit the pedal forward or back its like hitting the brake and stops dead but from only free rolling that probably doesn't mean much.

aussie, I'll explain my current theory of what may be wrong. The clutch facings wear, and the pedal has to move further to engage the drive. The forward clutch usually wears much more than the reverse clutch, because it is used more. The new (E2000) linkage type may have less effective movement than the older type, and unlike the older type, it no longer has a linkage adjustment. I'm guessing that your forward clutch has worn enough so that it requires adjustment. It would be possible to dismantle the whole clutch axle and change the shims, but I'm guessing that you may be able to just use a simple adjustment and avoid doing the whole rebuild job until the clutch facing is worn considerably more than it is so far.

On the clutch shaft that runs laterally across the chassis, at each side of the stack of clutches, there is a hexagonal nut which sets the positions of the fixed (outer) clutch plates. If the forward clutch facing is worn too far for the linkage to cope, the position of the fixed plate can be reset by tightening the nut on that side slightly. I suspect this is what a dealer would do to fix your problem. It is important to adjust the nut on the same side as the forward clutch: do not allow the nut on the reverse clutch side to turn. This means you have to hold the clutch plate, to keep the shaft from turning when you tighten the nut. I suggest you only adjust it about 30 degrees, then retry the mower. If it helps, but the pedal still moves further than it does in the reverse direction, adjust the nut a bit further.



The picture shows Deadly Dave adjusting his clutch pack. He did it on the bench - you would do it with the clutch shaft still installed in the chassis.

If my theory is correct, the reason you get more drive from a cold start, and the reason you get more drive when you slow down the engine, is explained in one of my previous posts: when a clutch plate gets hot, it slips. Your forward clutch gets very hot when it slips, and that makes it slip a lot more.

Thanks Grumpy and might I say from knowing very little about how this mower functions, since being on this forum and the help I have had I now have so much better understanding so thanks to you and all for giving me your time and patience on here.

Now the mower. I tried to tighten the nut you are talking about but it seems to not want to go. Looking at the whole assembly to enable it to adjust further something would have to make room on the other side ie the same nut on the other end for the reverse. For that cluth plate to be secure something must be also keeping it secure on the other side somewhere to keep it fixed not allowing me to tight and move the plate in if you know what I mean.

Could It be that you cannot adjust anything, the linkages, cluth or any of it? Is it just all fixed so that when the cork wears so far down that's it and you have to put new cork on so it cannot be adjusted to allow wear right down to metal and cause damage maybe?

aussie, the width between the two clutch plates and the nuts that locate them, is set by a series of parts across the center, including some shims. I suggest you take another look at this thread:
https://www.outdoorking-forum.com.au/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=21336&page=1
In that thread aldot and Murray both talk about adjusting the clutch plate clearance by using the nuts at the sides of the clutch pack. aldot says the washers in that area are crushable, so you need to tighten the nuts just the right amount to get the proper clutch plate clearance. Murray seems to be saying that his washers are crushed further than he wants them to be, so he is now using loctite on the thread of the adjusting nut to hold it in the position he requires.
I haven't seen one of these clutch packs, and the Greenfield parts list doesn't show how it works. I think we need aldot, Murray or Deadly Dave to clarify the position for us both. If my reading of that other thread is correct, you just need to apply more torque to that nut to crush your washer stack and get the correct clutch adjustment. You would need to end up only moving the nut on the forward clutch side, not the other (reverse clutch) nut. Let's see if one of the experienced guys can clear this up for us.

Hi Grumpy I assume when you say "crushing washers" you mean compressing a type of spring that applies pressure but will allow to compress in to adjust against it?

Hopefully one of the guys you mentioned will help us on this but if not It seems quite simple to remove the clutch assembly and take a look in there and thanks the progress from you and this forum I've made, I feel I can put new corks on the clutch when needed.

Hi fellas. I initially thought they may have be en crush washers but they are not. I disassembled my clutch pack and re-shimmed it through three goes to get something I was happy with. Unfortunately I didn't photograph it.

I purchased six shims which I will measure up and photograph this evening. At a guess, two were 1mm and four were 0.5mm. The previous service person over tightened these as they had heavy indentations of the square drive centre pressed into them.

I set the shims up to the desired thickness then once the drive assembly was done I rolled it on the floor while holding the main shaft. If I could not overcome the force of drag it was too tight. I finished off the two hex nuts with a dab of medium strength locktite.

As you roll the shaft on the floor, preferably carpet or rubber mat so the large outer wheels get some purchase, you should be able to hold the centre shaft from spinning. If the inner clutch plates are to tight the shaft in your hands will spin as there is too much drag to overcome. I found that I did want some amount of drag but not simply free wheeling as then you would have too much pedal free play.

I'll try and get some pics.

Thanks aldot. Any details you can provide would be very useful to other Greenfield owners: so far we don't have anything on clutch adjustment posted, so a set of instructions would be a valuable complement to the existing threads on removing and replacing the clutch axle. aussie, it looks as if you will have to take out the clutch axle and follow aldot's about-to-become-a-procedure to adjust your clutch. Depending on whether you hate doing that and don't want to do it again for a decade, or you don't really mind doing it, you might or might not replace the clutch facing material on the forward clutch while you have it apart. Sorry about that, I was relying on there being crushable washers to avoid you having to take it apart. Looking on the bright side though, you might be able to supply pictures as you go along, and test aldot's procedure as well. Every post a winner, the true spirit of Outdoorking!

No problem Grumpy now that I understand what I'm dealing with and have the confidence not only with myself but the support on this forum I'm actually quite excited about going in and operating.

I will let you know how I go and give some information and pics if you like for other Greenfield owners on the forum.

If I do decide to put new cork on would you say to remove the old ones to use something like a wire brush after the bulk of it is off? I don't want to gouge or damage the disc it attaches to with heavy scraping or anything like that.

Maybe if Aldot or anyone else who has changed and removed the old corks and replaced with new ones could advise me on it,it would be much appreciated.

Please go ahead with pictures and explanation of what you do Geoff, especially when it comes to setting up the shim stack so that you get the right amount of clutch clearance. That should complement aldot's explanation that he is going to supply. He didn't need to replace his clutch facings, but Murray did, and has posted something about how he did it in this thread:
https://www.outdoorking-forum.com.au/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=20076&page=2

He explained how he removed the old facing with a knife, then softened the glue with petrol and wiped it off, so there wasn't much risk of damaging the disk.

Hi Aussie. Same problem here. I'm pretty certain that one of the clutch springs have gone. Mine gets stuck in forward and reverse. I can actually see the clutch plates staying to one side. One is trying to drive one way and one the other as they are both trying to drive at once. Gunna pull mine apart and replace the springs etc and coat the axle with graphite. not oil as it'll attract the dust. I replaced the clutches about a year ago and am now kicking myself for being so stingy as not to replace the springs as well. My Evolution 2000 is now 18 years old and still goes perfectly otherwise with 800 hours on the clock. Had to "find" a starter for it though. They are no longer available. Hope this helps.
Bussy