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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 4,675
Likes: 164
SENIOR TECHNICIAN
I have never had this problem before. I have no problem starting up a utility but after shutting it down after use, it won't restart if I pull the rope a few minutes later.
I thought it was a sticking needle as it worked last time when I tapped the carburetor but this time it didn't and still refused when I tried pushing the primer a couple of times.
Only when I tried removing the spark plug and clearing out the cylinder with a couple of pulls of the rope and replacing the plug, it started first pull with some smoke that cleared quickly, suggesting the crankcase got flooded.
I did another bit of lawn, shut it down, and guess what, wouldn't restart when I discovered another bit I missed. Any suggestions? Very strange behavior (to me).

Note: I forgot, I actually found a tin of two stroke fuel disposed of with another Victa mower I found, and after seeing it had no water in it and had the dark green colour suggesting out was two stroke mix, poured out all into the large capacity tank of this mower. Perhaps it's stale, but it does work fine once you do get it going!


Ahh, if only victa had kept producing the thumblatch catcher series, they would be in better shape today!
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 147
Likes: 8
Apprentice level 2
Hi MF,

Something I thought of, is it possible, particularly if you're over-reving, and then switching off the mower, that it's flooding due to heavy load just prior to shut-down? That would cause excess fuel to be entering the combustion chamber but the spark plug would never spark and would become wet.

Something I normally do is to, after cutting, turn off the fuel supply and give the mower a 6-10 count before switching it off, that way extra fuel in the engine and carby is used, trying to prevent that exact issue. Maybe give that a shot?

Cheers,

pau13z

Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 4,675
Likes: 164
SENIOR TECHNICIAN
Hi pau13z,

no overevving or shutting off under load.
Will try your suggestion if I can get it to run. If no remedy, I'll dismantle the carburettor or swap it for another one.

Edit: I think I'll empty out this fuel with question marks attached and put a fresh lot in and see what happens.

Last edited by Mowerfreak; 17/01/22 12:52 AM.

Ahh, if only victa had kept producing the thumblatch catcher series, they would be in better shape today!
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 2,086
Likes: 80
SENIOR TECHNICIAN
MF, definitely turf the mystery mix - could be e10 or anything.

Are you pushing the throttle all the way down to run to knock the kill pins apart? Perhaps just shut it down and pull the plug lead, pop on a spare plug and check spark

Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 1,233
Likes: 32
Junior Technician
Those stupid kill switches give a lot of trouble when they get old. When you take carb off ,check O ring on barrel manifold. Fresh fuel is always good.
I have similar problem, it has weak spark, maybe dirt or rust on coil posts. I'm testing today.
speedy


........................Keep your blades sharp......................
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 2,059
Likes: 146
SENIOR TECHNICIAN & HISTORIAN
Hi Mf ,pau13z ,Tyler and Speedy

Could be low compression ,leaking crank or starter seals, ignition module or bad coil , bad fuel, spark plug.

Start with the easiest things first.

Cheers
Max.

Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 988
Likes: 7
Qualified Senior
Sounds electrical, coil might be unhappy.

Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 147
Likes: 8
Apprentice level 2
Hi MF,

How did you go with the fresh fuel? Out of curiosity, what type of fuel and brand of 2-stroke oil do you use?

The thing that confuses me is that it works when the spark plug dries and excess fuel is expelled through the spark plug hole. Which would suggest that there's too much fuel in there in the first place, completely soaking the plug. We know removing excess fuel resolved the issue, so to me, the first logical step is to try to replicate that without removing the spark plug. If the tap is working (Simple test), try turning off the tap a little before switching off the mower to reduce the mix in the carby/engine, and see if that resolves the issue. The best way to do this would be to turn off the fuel tap and use a torch to look into the carby bowl. Once the fuel level drops right down you can switch off the mower. Alternatively, and I wouldn't ever recommend this for continual use, but you could just turn off the tap and let the engine run dry (Not a recommended option). If doing that resolves the issue, then you can start looking at things in-between. The carby to me would be the most logical place, if the needle isn't seating correctly coupled with the fuel being left on between stopping and starting (Which is entirely normal), the engine could be flooding.

Have you noticed excess fuel use?

Cheers,

pau13z

Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 4,675
Likes: 164
SENIOR TECHNICIAN
G'day pau13z, paul_c, maxwestern, speedy and Tyler,

had a test today without changing the fuel, and it started first pull without priming needed. Did your suggestion pau13z and turned off tap for 15 sec (that's when I could hear revs give a hint of starting to rise) before shutting it down. Came back about three minutes later and starts right up first pull. Let it run a minute or two before turning of tap 10 seconds this time. Waited 30 seconds before turning on tap again and starts right up again.

Looks like flooding with the tap left on is the issue.
Might need another needle by the sounds of it.

It looks like you have provided a solution for now pau13z.
As for any excess fuel use, can't tell at this stage and having a near full large capacity tank doesn't help in finding out!

Cheers for your suggestions everybody.

Last edited by Mowerfreak; 18/01/22 06:54 PM.

Ahh, if only victa had kept producing the thumblatch catcher series, they would be in better shape today!
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 2,086
Likes: 80
SENIOR TECHNICIAN
MF, one other thing to check is the fuel cap. I can't see it being the problem here but I had a guy bring around a late 90s PT that had been fully serviced, but would flood seriously in the shed.

After another new fuel tap, needle, etc he said the problem was solved last june. He then came back a few months ago right after we got a bout of hot days. I put 2 and 2 together - the tank wasn't venting, heat in the shed pressurised it in hot weather and forced fuel past the tap and needle.

New house, detached shed storage in lieu of cooler garage it lived in for 20 years

Everyone else who had looked previously was apparently telling him he wasn't shutting the tap, etc, but he keeps it in good nick and knows a 2 stroke - shuts it down like Paul mentioned.

Drilled out the hole in the fuel cap a bit larger, told him to disconnect fuel line and put end in a bucket and see how much (if any) comes out and tell me if there is any. Haven't seen him in the last 2 months so probably worked.

The hole was in the cap but very small and easily clogged with grass. There was a service bulletin at the time regarding poorly formed hole in a production run (wouldn't affect yours though as its older - but it is the same cap so could have been substituted).

Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 4,675
Likes: 164
SENIOR TECHNICIAN
That sounds like something that occurs in storage rather than right away like mine is doing.
Good to know about all the same.


Ahh, if only victa had kept producing the thumblatch catcher series, they would be in better shape today!
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 2,086
Likes: 80
SENIOR TECHNICIAN
MF, I was thinking if the motor is heat soaking the fuel, paired with hot weathe, though it probably isn't that hot in woy woy is it

Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 4,675
Likes: 164
SENIOR TECHNICIAN
More horrible sticky humid weather than hot outright. I never used the mower for very long at a time and it was mostly shady conditions. It's most likely the carburettor. There is a long fuel line to the relatively high position large fuel tank.
The combination if the high position, large amount of fuel pushing downwards and the long fuel line containing more fuel then a domestic fuel line, may all be contributing to high fuel pressure forcing it's way to the crankcase when the tap is on.

Out of interest that may be related to fuel pressure, here is an LM carburettor on a utility wreck I found and there is a plastic tab on the primer cap. I wonder what this signifies? A needle and seat made for higher gravitational pressures from the large handle mounted fuel tank perhaps? I have never seen this before, not even on another utility with big tank I had that never gave this trouble.

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Last edited by Mowerfreak; 19/01/22 06:35 PM.

Ahh, if only victa had kept producing the thumblatch catcher series, they would be in better shape today!
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 147
Likes: 8
Apprentice level 2
Hi MF,

Based on the screw cap on top of the carby, I'd suggest that's an early G4 or a G3 model carby, so perhaps something to do with the older designs.

As I understand it, Victa sell one Carby part now and they sell it as a whole kit replacement, which is designed to be used on anything with a G3, G4, or LM Carby. That being the case, anything in the current Carby kit should function on any Victa 2-Stroke model with one of those Carby's, from the cheap steel bodied to the 24" slasher.

I have an MSP560 that I purchased new a few years ago, same deal, big tank mounted on the handles, I don't recall ever having an issue stopping and returning and it not starting due to a flood condition though. Everything on it is stock and original as well, so I've never changed the carby or anything.

Cheers,

pau13z

Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 4,675
Likes: 164
SENIOR TECHNICIAN
Pau13z, In the type that if I find a way to reliably use something, even if it's technically faulty, I'd rather use it that way, then go and attempt to make it run as it originally should. You have effectively provided a solution for me with this mower!


Ahh, if only victa had kept producing the thumblatch catcher series, they would be in better shape today!

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