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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 32
Likes: 3
wilbur Offline OP
Novice
Greetings all. It's been a long time between posts. You'll excuse me if I haven't found the right spot for this thread. Please let me know if this is the case.

I was hoping someone could identify this sixties Victa unit that I picked up with a spare motor a couple of years ago. My guess is a hybrid- mismatched chassis and motor, but I say this only because I couldn't find a match when looking through images on;

vintage mowers

Maybe a Model 7A chassis and bars?

The motors look unusual to me in that the carbie is on the LHS when viewing from the mowing position, and all the 2 strokes of the same general appearance (tank, cowel etc) seem to be the reverse.

I've attached photos that I'm assuming you will be able to see. If not I'll persevere and post next.

Thanks in advance for any information forthcoming.

Wilbur

Attached Images
victa entire comp 2.jpg (32.66 KB, 106 downloads)
engine number comp.jpg (31.28 KB, 105 downloads)
victa entire alt side comp.jpg (38.2 KB, 106 downloads)
Membership information
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 1,996
Likes: 137
SENIOR TECHNICIAN & HISTORIAN
G'day Wilbur

The chassis and bars look like they are Sheerline. The engine is definitely not original for the base.

https://www.vintagemowers.net/Victa_Sheerline.php

Cheers
Max.

Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 32
Likes: 3
wilbur Offline OP
Novice
Thanks, Max.

I had looked at the Sheerline chassis and bars. Mine has no Victa badge on the bars and doesn't seem to suggest there ever was one fitted (I could be wrong). The Model 7A looks to have a very similar looking chassis and is photographed without a bar badge, but the website we both have been looking at lists the chassis types as different (Types 6 and 7). I wonder whether anyone can identify the differences between these chassis?

Mine has a distinctive chute that I thought might date it (as per original post). Unless I am very much mistaken, it is original.

Love to find out what the motors are from. And why they have the reversed carbies/exhaust sides. I've assumed they are Victa 2-strokes, mainly due to the tank's decal (fuel/oil mix ratio detailed) , but????

If anyone can provide anything more, I'd be most grateful.

Once again, thank you, Max.

Wilbur

Last edited by wilbur; 04/12/21 05:06 PM.
Joined: Sep 2015
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SENIOR TECHNICIAN & HISTORIAN
.
To identify the base wilbur you will need to look under the mower to see if it has the reinforced base or not.

I can't see the side shoot as it's covered with a home made tin discharge cover.

more info here https://www.outdoorking.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=52538

Cheers
Max.

Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 32
Likes: 3
wilbur Offline OP
Novice
Thanks for the extra information, Max.

I've included a couple of shots of the underside of the chassis which I had taken prior to your link to the thread showing the difference in the chassis. I'll need to go back down to the shed and have another look, because I can't actually tell definitively from these photos (but maybe you or others can).

Interesting to hear that the discharge cover is homemade. It's a very nice job.

The other thing I notice is that the engine seems to sit atop lugs that are cast as part of the base, which doesn't seem to accord with the sheerline, four star or four stroke versions in the thread you directed me to, as far as the photos go, but the schematic does show one as having them.

Now I see that there probably was a much better area in which to post these sorts of queries. Apologies to all for my lack of forum etiquette/knowledge.

I very much appreciate your help, Max.

Wilbur

Attached Images
underside 1 comp.jpg (39.06 KB, 79 downloads)
underside 2 comp.jpg (31.98 KB, 78 downloads)
Joined: Sep 2015
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SENIOR TECHNICIAN & HISTORIAN
Usually wilbur with these sixties Victa mowers the 4 stroke base is made as a 2 stroke base then the centre section
is cut out and the 4 stroke mounting holes that are already cast into the base but not fully drilled through are drilled
through for the 4 stroke motor.

I don't own a 4 star or the 7A 4 stroke but from memory when seeing an original 4 star it had the bigger
centre hole, that makes me think people are drilling their 2 stroke base for the 4 stroke motors but are not removing
the centre section although the 4 stroke / 4 star motors have a spacer plate to lift the engine so it looks like the centre
section doesn't need removing except I'm assuming the oil drain plug is under the motor meaning if you don't remove
the centre section of the base, oil changes will be more difficult.

With the reinforced base that I can see in your images I'd say your base is 1961 .

Logically I would say your base is a two stroke base that has been drilled for a 4 stroke.

I have an image of a Sheerline base that shows the four stroke holes are not drilled through.

Cheers
Max.

Attached Images
Sheerline.jpg (49.03 KB, 77 downloads)
3rd Feb 1961.jpg aa.jpg (153.82 KB, 77 downloads)
change_oil.png (58.92 KB, 72 downloads)
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 32
Likes: 3
wilbur Offline OP
Novice
Sorry for pause in communication, Max.

So, to summarise, it looks likely that my chassis left the factory in 1961 with a 2-stroke motor, at some stage subsequent had that motor replaced with a 4-stroke (with mounting holes fully drilled out to accept, but centre hole NOT enlarged?) and then, finally, had an earlier model 2-stroke motor plonked on it. It's like researching a family tree!

Outstanding work, Max. Thank you for sharing your knowledge.

Now, the only remaining questions are with regards to what vintage/series/origin the motors are. Does the engine number shown in the original post give any clues? I'm assuming it is a Victa 2-stroke, but.......

Wilbur

Joined: Sep 2015
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SENIOR TECHNICIAN & HISTORIAN
G'day Wilbur,

The motor is Victa made but it's the Tiger / Industrial version used on other equipment like edgers ,pumps ,boat motors
etc but also used on other manufacturers mowers ,I would say your motor doesn't have Victa cast on the top front crank case.

The ICAE prefix, I have seen on HG Palmer mowers https://www.outdoorking.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=34955


Cheers
Max

Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 32
Likes: 3
wilbur Offline OP
Novice
Max, your knowledge continues to amaze me.

I'm interested to see that the HG Palmer shown in the link you provided has the carb/exhaust on opposite sides to mine. Is this unusual, or would the various applications these motors have been used for (edgers, pumps etc) explain this ? Is it as simple as the barrel being turned 180 degrees, or did it require different castings? I notice the Sheerline 2-stroke has the same configuration as the motor on my mower, but most other Victas I could see on Vintage mowers had the opposite (but that could be a failure to observe closely enough).

The fuel tank, which I suppose doesn't have to be originally matched with the motor, has a Victa fuel cap, which is on the opposite side to that on the HG Palmer. I will attach a photo of the tank and decal. Although it can't be seen in the photo, I can just make out a faded Victa mowers where Tiger was to be seen in the HG Palmer mower photos.

Along with the mower as I have shown it, I picked up a spare motor at the same time. It also has the same carb/exhaust configuration with the exhaust being cigar shaped as shown in the Sheerline 2 stroke photos you directed me to. I've attached a photo of the engine number (CA 1473P). Does it tell you anything re its origins?

And lastly, another motor I picked up somewhere (can't remember from where), which I assume has Victa origins, has the engine number 47720 396. I've thrown in a photo of the whole motor, which has a vacuum unit on the head and the spark plug seemingly entering slightly from the side rather than from the top (as per the other two motors). I assume that makes it a much later model.

Enjoy your weekend, Max (and any others who might happen upon this thread).

Wilbur

Attached Images
Spare motor with exhaust 2 comp.jpg (51.28 KB, 51 downloads)
fuel tank comp.jpg (37.11 KB, 51 downloads)
spare spare motor comp.jpg (50.21 KB, 51 downloads)
spare engine number comp.jpg (37.73 KB, 51 downloads)
Joined: Sep 2015
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Likes: 137
SENIOR TECHNICIAN & HISTORIAN
Here is a HG with the muffler on the same side as your motor Wilbur.
https://www.outdoorking.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=68985&page=all

Victa changed the muffler side in the early sixties , I think they copied Pope and thought it was a good idea but
Pope changed back to the conventional side and Victa followed.

Yes you can turn the barrel 180 degrees but you must rotate the piston as well otherwise the ring gap ends up
in a port.

The short answer is the major thrust side of the piston shouldn't be on the exhaust side of the barrel as this
will generate more heat causing scuffing , seizing or greater wear under certain conditions.

The Sheerline is an example of the wrong side to fit the muffler.

The fuel cap side depends on carby side as the tank is bolted on either way too.

The CA prefix ,I've seen on edgers , but a lot of the Tiger motors have been swapped for other tiger
motors and aren't original and I don't have a list for every prefix for every application of the Tiger
motor.

The 47720 396 looks to be a 1972 model ,the 47 should give you a code for what model it was from ,not
sure if I've recorded that number ,I can check later.

Will do Cheers ,Weekends half over enjoy what's left Wilbur

Joined: Sep 2015
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SENIOR TECHNICIAN & HISTORIAN
G'day Wilbur,

47720 396 is from a 1972 Victa Special.

Attached Images
Victa 1972 Range.png (564.48 KB, 32 downloads)
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 32
Likes: 3
wilbur Offline OP
Novice
Well, I think you have managed to provide answers to all the questions I have posed, Max. I owe you a debt of gratitude.

After considering all the provided information and the space I have (physically and mentally) I think I will have to pass on these pieces to someone who can do something with them. Given that, you should be the first person I offer them to. If you have any interest in acquiring any or all of what we have discussed, let me know (I'm in Jamberoo, you're in Sydney- we are coming to the Sydney CBD on Wednesday). I was thinking of putting them on Gumtree, but will wait for you to let me know if you have any interest (or space- physical or mental) for them in your life. I'd be happy to get what I paid for them if you wanted them for your collection ($80- but would accept less if you thought fair). I imagine you have as many Victas as you can fit (or maybe even more), but wanted to make the offer. Failing that, I thought I'd chance my arm with Gumtree. An opening price of around $150 might be about right, but I really have no idea. Feel free to disavow me of this notion. If I were a rich man, I would donate, but I'm trying to raise some cash by passing on some of the random pieces I've collected (everything from cedar furniture to a 1958 Coca Cola yoyo!). Being a flea market and tip shop frequenter, it's hard to say no to these things when they present.

Just so you know, hidden by the chute is a chip out of the chassis, a triangle about 20-30mm(?) in size. I think I've got a photo to attach.

In case you do have an interest, the motor attached to mower fired up easily with a squirt of fuel mix down the carbie throat. Other motor turns over freely by hand but has sat without plug in it for some time. No scratchy sounds when turning over. I was told that one of the motors had been rebuilt, but this was second hand information from the tip shop man, so.......

I've got to say what a pleasure it is to be able to learn about these machines. And making connections with like minded people. Thank you Max. I salute you. I really hope my intention to find a new home for the pieces doesn't make you feel like you have wasted your time, sullied our discussion or broken any forum etiquette. The learning journey has been the highlight of ownership.

Hope to find another reason to keep chatting.

Oh, and there a couple of other spares that made it into my collection. See photos.

Regards

Wilbur

Attached Images
spare cowl.jpg (31.31 KB, 32 downloads)
Spare pull start.jpg (34.98 KB, 31 downloads)
chassis damage.jpg (51.3 KB, 31 downloads)
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 32
Likes: 3
wilbur Offline OP
Novice
And a couple of pictures of the really nicely formed chute. Someone has done a very good job if they made it themselves. Thought you might like to see the effort put in. The photos don't really give a good view of the gusset plate reinforcing the 2 facets. It isn't just a second sheet, it forms a triangle with the top and side surfaces.

I just noticed the 4 star and/or 4 stroke did have a chute (clearly different to mine). I'd missed that when I looked through the post you directed me to for the first time. I had, of course, noticed the catcher version though.

Wilbur

Attached Images
chute attachment.jpg (45.1 KB, 26 downloads)
chute from front.jpg (28.24 KB, 25 downloads)
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 32
Likes: 3
wilbur Offline OP
Novice
One more for clarity....

Attached Images
chute from end.jpg (27.7 KB, 26 downloads)
Joined: Sep 2015
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SENIOR TECHNICIAN & HISTORIAN
Hi Wilbur,

Thanks for the kind offer for me to buy the Victa mower and parts ,definitely some good parts there
for any collector / restorer , I have to decline from buying them as I have too much in my collection
already .

The side shoot cover does look well made ,it's just that I've never seen that style on a Victa mower but
have seen well made accessory parts like this cover that are home made parts .

Good to hear any other thoughts on the cover though ,It looks to me that the bracket that holds the catcher
on also was used to mount the side shoot cover so removal of the bracket wasn't needed when using the
catcher or side shoot ,just saying it explains why the cover was made the way it is.

With the sale ,It would be best to remove the engine from the base and remove muffler ,fuel tank ,cowl ,carby,
starter cup ,blade plate and starter and sell separately on eBay ,I understand if you don't wish to sell on eBay but that's
where you could easily make $300 plus. ,you will need to advertise postage available and pick up also available .

If you use Gumtree and advertise the lot you may need to start at $250. The red starter with the nut in the centre
I see them sell for $100.

If you get no takers on gumtree ,you could list separately or lower the price until you get some interest.

I would say like myself people here like to discuss mowers etc ,glad to be of assistance ,It's always worth
learning about what you are selling first.


Cheers
Max.

Attached Images
Victa 18 Special Engine eBay running.png (195.73 KB, 23 downloads)
victa 18 engine eBay.png (140.33 KB, 23 downloads)
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 32
Likes: 3
wilbur Offline OP
Novice
Thank you, Max.

I will follow your advice.

Wilbur

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