OutdoorKing Repair Forum Forums Repairs and Maintenance Questions on Engines Questions On Victa Two Stroke Engines I'm done with Victa float needles

I am finally giving up on these 2 stroke Victas because of the problems with the float needles. The failure and problem rate is too high, just causes too many issues. I will work my way through the ones I have here but I will not be chasing anymore, they have finally beaten me.

The rate with my 13 is nil. All original equipment Victa plastic needles.
I think it's just an inherent design flaw with the whole set up that inevitably leads to problem carbys. I think getting them to be 100% problem free is chasing rainbows. You can only really reduce the incidence by the sounds of it. Well worth persevering for the end result of a top notch mower power plant.

Done with them MF, I will not be buying any more Victa needles, sick of wasting my time with them

I was given a complete LM last month by a mate - he said the motor was scrapped because it just wouldn't run - yellow needle in the carby was stuck.

MF, I have found the orange victa needles to be the best way to go as well - I have used a couple metal ones but have had some stick.

Its a shame such a small bit often condemns perfectly good engines

Hi Norm,

I thought you changed over to steel needles that are viton coated on the tip ?

Cheers,
BB.

I never had a problem with the plastic needles leaking when paying $1 each for one at the local mower
shop but I think the mowers Norm gets are little more worn out than the ones I've had.

I've had one Victa where someone had just replaced the plastic needle with a piece of alloy
welding rod that had a point ground on the seat side and that worked fine.

The Victa carbies I've had didn't need the brass seat to be re-cut but there
is a repair for them if the needle is still not shutting off correctly .

Might be worth trying if you know the needle is good.


Cheers
Max.

Hi Max,
New viton tipped needles,new primer caps and new floats and they still are causing never ending issues, I am really over them now.

Hi Norm,
I did not know you were using new primer caps and new floats , I would not think you are having any flooding
issues,unless the needles are too heavy for the float , If the needle is sticking closed ,I would try tying the
bottom of the needle with some fuse wire to the float.

If there is not enough room for fuse wire at the bottom of the needle I would drill a small hole in the
bottom centre of the needle and loctite the wire in then drill a small hole for the wire to go through
the plastic float.

If I was having the problems you are having I would experiment with making some needles out
of alloy welding rod.

Just a few ideas but it sounds like it's a frustrating problem getting the needle and seat to be reliable
100 percent of the time.

Cheers
Max.

Yes Max, you can see why I am done with them, regardless if they work today, it is fifty fifty if they will work tomorrow or in a weeks time. I have tried making up a little clip to pull the needle down and that seemed to work for a while but then it started sticking down and flooding out the primer cap. I have tried making needles out of silver solder welding rods, I have fitted Briggs seats in the caps and turned down Briggs needles to fit, but both these ideas were as unreliable as the ones I am using now. They are a fantastic carby but the primer and needle design is just crap and I am now completely over them.

Who knew it takes a needle to be cured of the Victa disease.

Hi Norm,
You move more PTs than me, but I always ask them to call me if they don't work. I know of one lady that I sold a PT to..
It wouldn't start , and she had the tray bids , so just dumped it. It was a powerful mower......
I like to keep a mower for a while , months to see how it goes, and how reliable it is.
Have a break from LM carbs and look at some line trimmers........ fishing.... pallet furniture.
cheers
speedy

Yep I can see Norm why trying to clip or tie the needle to the float would be a problem with the plastic Victa float.

I found that home made needle I removed from a Victa many years ago,it's not made out of alloy as I thought, it's
steel, looks like it's made from ark welding rods, it's a little longer than the standard plastic Victa needle.

The plastic needle would not open by gravity alone but the steel needle opened every time I moved the
float down so it had no problem opening just by gravity and without clipping the end of the needle to
the float.

I will have to try this needle in a mower and see how reliable this steel needle is. I remember this
needle working in a mower it's just that I never tested it over a long period of time but
the steel needle may have been in the carby for years.

Hi Max, I can't believe the steel needle would seal up against the brass seat in the primer cap. I pulled the brass seats out of many of the primer caps, drilled down with a 3/16th drill and the pushed a Briggs viton seal in there for the Briggs needle to seal up against
Yes Speedy I will have a Bex and a lie down, should do the trick.

G'day everyone,

Hi NormK I haven't worked on that many mowers mate only just a couple that I have here. The only thing I can mention is I don't know if it helps all that much but I think it's a good thing if using the standard red Victa needle to always turn the fuel tap off and let the engine run until it stops before putting it away. I don't sell mowers to customers so I don't know if you could possibly also tell them to always do this?

I have had a very good run for many years always doing this with my Victa Commando and when I drag it out of the shed even after 4 months or longer, I just put fresh fuel in and it eventually starts, sometimes it may take 3 or 4 pulls to start it after sitting so long. But once it starts it runs fine all day and I mow the lawns. Maybe I have been lucky I don't know. It just has all standard genuine Victa carby parts in it.

I have also put a standard red Victa needle in that red Victa Pace PT I repaired about 3 months ago. That's also been sitting for about 3 months now. The grass is starting to grow everywhere here now and once the weather starts to dry a bit I might take this out for a mow. I will see if it still runs ok after sitting so long. I do remember I also turned the fuel tap off on that one and let it idle until it stopped before I put it away.

Don't know mate I am just thinking maybe turning the fuel tap off and running the engine until it uses up the fuel in the carby to let the float drop a little bit and also it lets the needle rest and sit away from the seat may prevent it from sticking and then when you want to start it again it might work ok.

I know my green Victa FC usually runs ok after sitting for many months like this. I don't know about that other red Pace PT though. When I get around to starting it again I will see if it runs ok as it's been sitting for around 3 months now also. I just have a standard red Victa needle in it, but I have installed a genuine Victa primer cap and genuine Victa float and also a new genuine Victa jet. I don't know if there is much difference between the genuine and aftermarket carby parts.

Cheers!

Norm, I had a few idle moments this afternoon, and had a bit of a think about this.

1. maybe the regular engine oil you said you use in the mix is causing 'stickiness' of the needle in the seat - and this gets worse as the fuel evaporates. If the engine is shut off then the fuel tap turned, you have the fuel line full and the float bowl full as well - this could run down as the fuel evaporates and clog up around the needle.

I always shut the fuel off 20 seconds before putting them in the stop position. However, 2 months ago it was dark and all I did was stop my PT commando, take the fuel line off and drain the tank ((as per usual). Next week, it took 2 pulls to start instead of the 1 every other time - I have to put this down to leaving the float chamber full.

2. I was going to suggest drilling out the brass and putting in a vitron seat, but I see you tried that.

You have done so much good work with these LM's getting them to idle, to have throttle control and stop reliably, it would be a shame to have one of these other little things to stop such good work


Converse, I personally don't let mine completely run dry, but it clearly doesn't cause any problems if your Commando is any indication. What I don't like to see is when people turn the fuel tap off with the engine flat chat and then run it out of fuel. Backing it off to idle then running it out can't be that harmful.
Regards
Tyler

Hi Tyler, No I always just let it idle at a slow tick over until the engine stops. Never at high revs, although there has been the odd time when I have ran the fuel tank completely dry with the engine surging then it came to a complete stop when the fuel ran out...lol Luckily the engine still runs great even after this has happened a couple of times over the years.

Cheers!

I have done the same thing several times Converse, going along and then revs a bit and carks it.

Also have left the fuel tap off after I have shut it down to go and empty the catcher.

My Standard 2 had the yellow needle in it - didn't have issues for a good while. Then I built the new shed, and suddenly the trip from shed to lawn went from going over a few bumps, to going smoothly straight onto it.

Took 5 goes one time, then the next it just flat out refused - that is why I was mowing in the dark with the PT commando haha. guess the crooked pavers were freeing the needle up

Regards
Tyler

Hi All,

I don't think there should be any problem Norm with the brass seat and the steel needle,lots of
carbies use these components ,remember all the old single barrel stromberg carbies for example.

I can take some measurements of the needle if you like Norm if you want to copy that steel Victa needle.

Cheers
Max.

You won't be getting it any easier moving over to Briggs and Stratton or Honda's.
Maybe you can move your attention to Electrolux vacuum cleaners.

Thanks Max, I can always give a steel needle a try.
MF, I'm thinking of watching TV

In that case NK, you'll be back to Victas in no time at all!

There's nothing worth watching Norm.

Hi all,

Just thought I'd throw in my 2 cents, some of which has already been covered, and also as general info for anyone searching the forum in the future.

1. Use 2-stroke oil, not 4-stroke:
-> 4-stroke could be stickier, causing the valve to gum up
-> 4-stroke may separate more over time, exacerbating the issue
-> 2-stroke has additional fuel stabilisers to keep the mix more stable for longer without separating
-> 2-stroke has specific additives (detergents, etc) for 2-stroke engines to prevent build-ups and additional exhaust pollution

2. Use 98 octane fuel:
-> 98 octane fuel, as well as 2-stroke mix, contains fuel stabiliser agents and detergents to keep the fuel stable for longer and can assist in the blending of fuel and 2-stroke mix
-> 98 octane fuel is more stable, resulting in a more consistent burn in the combustion chamber
-> The detergents in it alone, let alone when coupled with a premium 2-stroke mix, can help to clear out gummed up passages faster and more easily

3. Use premium 2-stroke oil:
-> Premium 2-stroke oil contains additional stabiliser agents and detergents to assist further with lubrication and keeping the oil/fuel stable for longer

4. Do not let the mower run dry:
-> This is specifically noted in the PowerTorque Owner's Manual
-> While this occurring on occasion may not do any serious damage to the engine immediately, over time this can have dire consequences
-> Turning off the fuel tap before cutting out the engine could cause suction on the line, pulling the needle up and into the seat with more force, having an adverse effect. Leave fuel in the fuel line above the needle

5. Even with premium 2-stroke oil, do not mix more than 25:1:
-> 25:1 is more than enough to keep the engine running smoothly
-> Using 25:1 with premium 2-stroke oil (As opposed to the recommended 50:1) will provide more than enough lubrication and will mix well with the fuel

6. Starting procedure (Victa):
-> Ensure the spark plug is connected
-> Turn the fuel tap on
-> Move the throttle to the "RUN" position, then back to the "START" position
-> COLD START: Press the primer bulb slowly 3 times, pausing between each press
-> HOT START: Priming is only necessary if the mower fails to start on the first pull
-> Pull the starter handle slowly until it engages, then quickly once engaged. Return the starter cord slowly until recoiled
-> Run the engine in the "START" position for 10 seconds or until warm, then move the throttle to "RUN"
-> Keep the throttle in the "RUN" position in all mowing conditions

7. Starting procedure (pau13z):
-> Before turning on the fuel, top the tank up with some fresh 2-stroke mix
-> After turning on the fuel, give the mower a bit of a shake/roll on the ground. This will help mix any fuel/oil in the tank that may have separated (Aided by the fuel you just added), and help to knock loose the needle if it may have stuck
-> Press the primer bulb 3-8 times slowly, then move the throttle to and from the "STOP" and "RUN" positions several times, before settling back on the "START" position
-> Only a gentle and not "super fast" pull of the starter cord should be required to kick over the engine

I've only ever used premium 2-stroke oil with 98 octane fuel. I currently have 5 working mowers in my garage, some of which haven't been started in over a year. With fresh 2-stroke and a bit of shake/rattle/roll, I almost always get a start within 1-2 pulls

FYI, the current carby available from Victa (Whole unit replacement) is really good. I've had carby's previously that look OK, replaced all of the parts, no leaks, nothing apparently wrong, however, the mower won't start. Replace the whole body, up and running immediately. In my experience, the needle has been the least of my worries

As for the Viton tipped needles, my thoughts are that while they should provide "the" superior seal, remember, this seal is to stop fuel entering the float chamber. If the needle is stuck open you'd know because the fuel would come out of the primer bulb as the float chamber fills up. If the seal is working TOO well, it could get stuck up in the seat, especially if a vacuum has formed between the fuel line and the needle. The hard plastic needle should be more than enough to stop the fuel coming in, but also the best to "pop" loose and allow fuel to come out.

Check my horrible drawing.... If the tip of the needle gets stuck in the seat because the soft rubber tip gets sucked in, it may not want to release. Just my thoughts, I'm sure you all deal with more mowers than I do, as I said, I just wanted to throw in my 2 cents

Excellent post pau 13. I can imagine the rubbery tip on the viton needles could pose their own problems and be more prone to jamming.
I thought 95 was enough but I will get 98 next time, especially after the point you made about stability over time.
I ran a Ryobi 31cc 2 stroke powered bike on Shell Optimax when it first came out about 2000 and noticed the performance boost immediately.

Great thread.

Hey Norm, I have not gone through as many PTs as you, and probably not as much as the others here. But I've had steel needles, black needles, yellow needles and pink needles. They all seem to work fine.

My troubles all seem to be with governing. I don't know why, must be air leaks somewhere, even though I've replaced the usual seals. Going to buy two full replacement carbies and see where I end up.

Did I read correctly that you add sump oil to the fuel to make your mix? I echo the others here. Reckon that might be causing issues for you.

Hi Norm,

Please do not give up Norm. We will never get another other engine to run a Super 24 like a Victa. They need a two stroke and what else is there? I know we have talked about those Suzuki clones at times but they are expensive, a bit small and they are known for carby issues as well.

I must admit that I have had the best results with old plastic needles although both my metal needles are OK at the moment. I think there is something in shaking the whole mower a bit before and after starting. I do that as a routine but its not the type of thing your customers will like to hear.

How are you anyway? I hope your operation went well and your are recovering well. Can you get down to your workshop yet? All will seem much better when you can.

All the best
Jeff

Hi Norm ,
Here are the dimensions for the steel Victa needle, a rough drawing from the laptop touchpad.

The steel Victa needle is 3.1mm diameter ( ark welding rod is 3.25 mm) so it could be made from a nail.
If need be you can file or grind a couple of flat sections on the side of the needle for more fuel flow.

Cheers
Max.

Excellent write up Pau13z.

The only bit I don't necessarily agree with is suction due to turning the tap off causing the needle to stick worse - there is a hole in the primer that will let air pressure out.

I use 98 with semi for full synthetic oil as well - the Victa's don't complain, and my starting procedure is identical to yours.

That being said, 98 shouldn't be a requirement for one of these to run - I have had very little success convincing others to use it. And I can guarantee a potential customer would balk at the requirement when a Briggs will run normally (which is to say quite averagely) on 91.

What they don't know is that most of there whipper snippers and leaf blowers are supposed to run 98 Ron as well (the manuals all say 91 r+m/2 - which is the american method)

Powerfit Semi synth oil is at bunnings for $10 a litre bottle - best price for semi-synth 2 stroke oil I can find. I used it when it was branded Ryobi and it seemed fine.

G'day everyone,

I guess i'll just also add my 2c worth here on premium 98 unleaded fuels and my experiences with it.

Many years ago I did try a mix of BP Ultimate 98 unleaded in the 2 stroke mix, I didn't think it made any difference at all in how the engine ran it seemed the same as running it on standard 91 unleaded. The only thing I do remember though was that my eyes seem to sting a bit and possibly my nose was stinging a bit from the gases emitted from burning the 98 in my lawnmower. I straight away went back to regular 91 which doesn't seem to irritate the eyes and airways so much. Well this was my experience running it in the 2 stroke mix. Because of this I always just stick to regular 91, this is also what Victa used to recommend to run the 2 strokes on.

Another thing is don't really believe all the hype about how stable or how much this premium 98 petrol will help to prevent rust in the fuel system etc. It may be better if it's left in a tank for maybe just a few months and constantly refreshed with fresh fuel. I once had this premium 98 unleaded in an older car with a steel tank thinking that it would better protect the steel tank and other lines on the vehicle from rusting away. The result was it completely rusted out the inside of the steel petrol tank! Wherever this premium 98 fuel was touching inside the tank it was rusted right out! The fuel was sitting in the tank for a very long time though.

Well anyway that's just my 2c worth on this premium 98 unleaded petrol. In the end I think the only advantage of this fuel is if you actually need the higher octane of 98 to prevent pinging or knocking on an older engine or on a performance engine. It may have slightly better additives for cleaning the injectors or whatever on a newer vehicle. But as I mentioned don't leave it in any tank for a long time as it will rust it out. I learnt this the hard way.

Cheers!

Hi all,

I mostly use BP 95 or 98 because I am reasonably certain there is no ethanol in it. I also use a fuel stabiliser and quality 2 stroke oil. I’ve had good success with metal and plastic needles. With this method I feel I’m doing all I can to keep fuel as fresh as possible so I can be confident my 3 victa machines and 8 year old ryobi whipper snipper will start easily with the same procedure every time.

Cheers,

John

The suction isn't on the float chamber side, it's on the fuel hose side.

This could happen either way but it's more likely if the fuel hose is empty.

Think of it like this... If the fuel hose is full of fuel because you stopped the mower, and then turned off the fuel tap, and then, after being stored for a week the fuel pressure changes because it's cold in the shed. The pressure and vacuum in the fuel hose will change a bit.

Then instead, imagine if that fuel line was empty and full of air, or partially full of air. It gets cold, the air molecules condense and the pressure lowers, creating vacuum or suction in the hose. It can't suck from the tap side, so it sucks from the needle side, then the rubber tip gets pulled into the seat in the primer cap and gets stuck.

Does that make sense?

Converse, I repaired a mates mower last year (talon) and he asked why it didn't smell as much during use. All I had done was drain the dirt out of the tank & carby and refill with fresh 98 octane.
Maybe 91 has more sulphur in it and make it stink. Fuel and can was fine - it was the fuel line disintegrating inside that made it clog and surge.He said it returned to normal smell after he refilled.


That being said, when ever I really hammer the car (which I try to avoid but sometimes you can't), it stinks of rotten egg gas from the cat convertor, and thats on 98.

I am in the process of reading a rather interesting book on motor petroleum, and it does make mention of a quite concerning increase in octane requirement with even small amounts of carbon build up. Once I have a bit of a re-read, I will remember what the figure was. Its is a book made after tetra-ethyl lead, but before MTBE was banned

Thanks Pau13z, I understand what you mean now

I wonder how long it actually takes for the fuel to evaporate out of the fuel line. I might have to do a bit of an experiment

Regards
Tyler

Hi Tyler, I can give you my story on this, when I first bought my old Ford XC Falcon with the 302 V8, there was still good old Leaded Super available and the engine loved that stuff. Anyway after a few years they started phasing out Leaded Super and were replacing it with that LRP "Lead Replacement Petrol". Anyway after a while I noticed my engine started to make a metallic tapping type noise under hard revs. I didn't really quite know what this noise was I was thinking maybe something was a bit loose and rattling around the engine. Anyway I took my mate for a drive who was more into working on engines and race cars at the time and asked him what he thought this noise was. He said it sounds like the engine is pinging. I was like gees it never used to do that before. Then it clicked, it was the new damn LRP "Lead Replacement Petrol". It must have had a lower octane than the old Leaded Super where my engine never pinged at all. I never knew what the sound of pinging was when the car was always run on Leaded Super. Anyway there is my experience in finding out all about how good the old Leaded petrol was for those classic engines. I think back then Leaded Super had an octane rating of 97 or 98? That new LRP rubbish was like running water compared to good old Super!

Yes these days if you want to try and put a stop to your older engine from pinging your best bet is to try running it on Premium 98. In most cases it will stop the engine pinging because of the higher octane like the old Leaded Super used to be. I have ran some older 4 cylinder cars from the early 80's on premium 98 and it has stopped the pinging completely. If I run these engine's on anything lower than 98 they will ping. It's probably also from years of carbon build up in the chambers. Well I know running 98 has stopped the pinging on older engines and you don't have to mess around with rebuilding the distributor or adjusting the timing.

Then there's the other thing about how the older engines hard softer exhaust valve seats and this is where the old leaded petrol used to coat things and look after them. Some older cars had hardened valve seats and can be safely run on unleaded where others need some sort of additive added to the fuel to try and save the valve seats.

Cheers!

That what I do Converse, the Camira now gets 98, with valve saver every other fill - it has an alloy head and supposedly doesn't need any valve saver. But Red and Blue Holden engines would, same as 302 Fords and probably any 3.3L or 4.1 straight 6 before the XD got the Honda designed alloy head.

I put the timing back a couple more degrees last month as it was pinging at bigger throttle openings (under 15 mm hg on the economy gauge - remember them?), and I think another tweak is in order next week when I do the 6 monthly oil change (only does 1100km between them).

Its funny in the off season we all end up talking about cars as much as mowers haha, but I'm not complaining

Except for that one time, I've always run my PTs on 91, but I add Sta-Bil. I read a tech paper from someone who'd know (it was either an engine manufacturer, or oil company, but I can't remember which!) and they recommended sticking with 91 RON. The only exception is for smaller, high performance two strokes that rev. I'll use MotoMix for those. I thought that was a great way to part with my money until I read the patent and tech papers on that.

Funny about the mention of sulphur content in fuels. I cannot stand the smell of burnt 91. I can pick who uses what fuel in their car, and it's not necessarily a gift...!

I do love the smell of AVGAS on a hot day...bring back the TEL.

I can also sense which RON they put in Mystyler, especially the cars about 15-20 years old now that their flash lambda sensors aren't so precise with age and wear

I found where the book said about octane requirement increase (ORI). Just so I don't end up crowding Norm's Victa Needle thread too much with this good more car petrol related info, I will make a new thread and put the info in there

Regards
Tyler

Yes, sorry Norm! I must say though, I have more than just a passing interest in fuels. I'll be keen on the new thread Tyler.

So yes, yes. Er, keep up the good work Norm, don't get discouraged. You won't be beaten by a little piece of plastic, will you?

Here's the Link for it,

https://www.outdoorking-forum.com.au/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/100306/petrol-octane.html#Post100306


My apologies as well Norm.

Hi Jeff,
too much info happened here at the moment so I will address the 600 issue with you. I have 2 of them here and I am convinced these slashers are not suited to the PT's for some reason. I have fitted 4 motors to these and they do not work well. The motors run fine on a standard base. I'm at the point of contemplating fitting F/C's on them. The bloke who owns one of them was on about fitting a Suzuki on his but I had told him I thought they might be too small cc wise, he wasn't listening but I think I convinced him yesterday when I told him they were a Chinese copy. He is trying to find a Honda for it now. At least I have a drawing here somewhere of the adapter plate that I need to make to fit an F/C on the later base.

To be fair I have gone through over 100 of the viton tipped needles, some work fine and never have a problem, then some cause issues and when this happens I can go through as many as 4 primer caps and needles before I get a combination that works and that mower settles down.These issues always arise usually in the first week or so so I do not believe oil is the issue but it could be if the mower was left to sit for many months.


Hi Max, I will make up one of those needles and see if it works, there is another 5 PT's I put in the front garage that I haven't looked at yet. Probably a good starting point With the needles, even with the viton tipped ones I have had to shorten a few of them by about half a mm. This must be because the seat height (depth) must vary slightly in the primer cap. When the primer cap is fitted in the body, the float is unable to drop enough to allow the needle to drop away from the seat. This is also compounded by the fact the viton tip will swell a fraction after a day in the fuel and this combined with the limited float travel it can be enough to stop the fuel flow. Anyway I will go and work on a Briggs some bloke dropped off here last night

Keep it up NormK :-)

Hi all,

I just fitted the steel Victa needle and cut some grass for 1/2 an hour ,worked well no sticking no flooding.

The only thing I did before installing was putting it in the drill first and cleaning the taper up with 600 wet
and dry sand paper.

It should work good for Norm too.

Cheers
Max.

Hi Norm,

Fitting an F/C to a PT Super 24 base? Thats exactly the opposite to what I have done. My PT on a FC base seems to work well. Been going a few months now but not much growth during winter. Its quite a bit of work I found fitting these non standard motors to these bases but I'm sure its possible. My PT is fitted crossways like all PT's except those on 24's. I can not see that that makes any difference.

Its a pity we are not closer. I would gladly swap bases.

I still think that Suzuki would be worth a try. As you have said I do not think the power is much of an issue. Its the blade spimming mass that matters
.
Good to hear you are well to work even if it is on a Briggs.

All the best
Jeff

Thanks Jeff,
Hip is 100 times better, at least I got the Briggs running. I have fitted a F/C on a 24 PT base before but it was a lot of work, not sure I want to go that way again. As for the Suzuki's I can't seem to find them now so they may be all sold out. I could drive down to the warehouse and find out, it is only 5 mins up the road. I still have a couple of F/C bases here at the moment that I have pulled the motors off, but as they are older the bases have suffered more wear up around the front axle and that requires me making up bushes to fill up where the alloy has been worn away.

Hi Max,
That is amazing, I can easily make one of those needles in the lathe, too easy. I did have quite a few of the briggs needle I was going to alter but I probably threw them out once I started using the viton needles. I will make one in the morning and see how it goes

G'day everyone,

I thought it's time to go out and give the nature strip a mow today. I haven't got any fresh fuel but luckily I still had just under half a tank left in the old FC Commando so I thought that should be enough for the nature strip. I also added about half a cup of what was left in the plastic fuel container and just gave it all a good shake around before trying to start it.

This mower has been sitting for 3 months, the last time I started it and mowed the backyard was when I recorded footage to upload on these forums and that was on the 15th of May 2019.

I turned the fuel tap on, let the fuel flow for a bit then I just pressed the primer bulb once to see if it starts. On the second pull it briefly started then stopped. Then I gave the primer bulb another press and on the next pull "VROOM". Away she went and never missed a beat until I finished mowing all the nature strip. Maybe next time I should try giving the primer bulb a couple of presses instead of just once.

Cheers!

Hi Converse,
when a float needle decides to work they are usually very good, it is when they decide to act up it can drive you nuts, but once they settle they usually cause no further problems

Getting very close to giving up on these 2 strokes again, so sick of float needle problems continuing so many over the last week or so, fit new primer cap,new needle works fine for half an hours mowing and then the start pissing fuel out the primer cap. It can't be this bloody hard to get a float needle that actually works, Briggs and Chondas seem to be able to manage it easily. I won't be picking up any more mowers I'm done with it

My latest idea is to set up a bank of 5/6 carbies polish the primer cap seat with a cotton bud with Autosol on it, fit a new needle and fit a fuel tank above the carbies and leave them with the fuel turned on for a couple of days to see if any leak. At least in doing this I can feel fairly comfortable that when I fit the primer cap and needle to a mower it should not leak. Hard to believe I have to go to all this trouble just because of these stinking float needles. Such a little thing that brings a tough mower to its knees

Two great minds think alike Norm

I have been struggling for weeks trying to get a otherwise perfect SPFC TAC right. It had sat in my to do line since sept 2018 and finally got to it late last year.

This morning I went out and put a little bit of thin valve grinding paste on the end of a cotton ear bud, wacked it in the cordless drill and polished it up, pushing the cotton bud right up into the seat.

Hopefully it works when I get around to refitting the carby

Strange thing is it runs great when its running, but its a bugger to cold start; normally no less than 20 pulls in between removing the plug and cleaning it due to flooding.

Have been giving it a hiding cutting new garden beds in, along with starting retic ditches for me. Went through half a tank just starting it last time, which I struggle to understand how.

Fixed a PT with one of the worst floods I have ever seen last week - guy left the tap on for 15 minutes with a yellow needle and lost nearly half a tank again

Hi Norm and Tyler

I think you are using the primer caps with the chamfer on the seat so the needle will seal ,if not
I can see the problem ,

Might be easier trying a pressure tester ,I was thinking of making one and using a Doctors
blood pressure tester hand pump ,the pump is only a few dollars online and just hook it to a pressure gauge.
That or just use a bike pump connected with a gauge.

The gravity feed idea should work it's just the time that it takes to wait.

I haven't had this problem ,if the cap leaks I replace the needle ,but I never buy new caps always just
take a second hand cap off a mower ,I know there are a lot of problems with low quality aftermarket caps,
the only way is to buy them from the same supplier once you know they are ok.

The pressure gauge would be a quicker test and is easier when testing the same needle in different caps.

I think you saw this video Norm showing the different types of caps that look the same on the outside.



I'm sure once you can get the caps and needles to the right specs you shouldn't have a problem
Norm but that may take some work as you say polishing the seat with Autosole may help but with
a pressure tester you can see the result straight away.

Cheers
Max.

Hi Tyler and Max,
It can't be this hard to just get a float needle to work.
Max, I wouldn't trust a pressure tester in this situation, only thing I am interested in it testing the [Censored] things with fuel and the only way I can see to do this is to set up a rig with a number of carbs mounted on it and a fuel tank above it and just keep the fuel sitting on the seat for a few days. The Viton tip can swell a bit once it is subjected to fuel so at least being in the fuel it means I should be able to fit and know it won't leak in 2 days time.

Norm, what about throwing a few in a bucket of 2 stroke mix for a month or so to get max swelling out of the way

I reckon a great deal of this issue is related to the swelling. Install, runs fine. Shut off engine then turn off the fuel tap - means the needle is at full height; the viton expands and catches in the seat (best case sticking, worst case damaging it).

I personally run them a little while after turning the tap off (but don't let them rev out at the end) and don't tend to have issues - but when I do I have a spate of them.

Max, I also find the old caps best, but they are progressively getting thinner on the ground. GA spares ones are useless, Victa genuine passable and Carbymasters are better, but still none are perfect.

Hi Tyler
Only way I'm going with this is getting each primer cap and needle matched together tested on the rig and then fitted to a mower so I have proven that that particular pair work and will shut the fuel off. No other way can I see it working

G'day Norm and Tyler

If the Viton is swelling I wouldn't bother using them ,I would just machine up some brass needles on the Lathe as
that's all some Stromberg carburetors ,early Villiers, and some motor bikes etc had and those needles and seats lasted decades with brass on brass.


Cheers
Max.

I think you are onto something here Max

60/40 brass has a density of about 8250 kg/m3 as opposed to mild steel at about 7850. Maybe the extra weight would help.

However I believe part of the issue is related to the fact it is a brass seat pressed into plastic; you can often see they are crooked. This is where viton shines as it will help seal a crooked seat.

There is also the issue with making the brass ones; stuffing around with a lathe with a piece of brass round stock. Even though I love 2 strokes, its just easier to throw a new carby on a chonda and put that on the deck

Hi Max and Tyler,
I have to pick up some 1/4 inch tees tomorrow and I can connect up the 5 carbies to the fuel tank and see what happens. Each seat has been polished, new needle and primer cap. At least if any leak I can see straight away which one it is.

Ok so now I have the proof, I set up 5 in a row, turned the fuel on and 3 out of the 5 leaked. That is brand new primer caps from the Carbymaster so they are supposed to be the improved type and I polished the seats with Autosol and 5 new needles. Hard to believe all other manufacturers can make float needles that work and we can't get anything to work on Victas.

Now after a further polishing of the seats on the offending caps I now have 5 sitting there with the fuel left on and only a minor weep on one of them. Now I will leave them there with the fuel turned on for 24 hours and see if any start leaking. Annoying that I have to go through all this crap just to ensure these things won't leak somebody has picked a mower up.

I reckon its related to weight, paired with the potential for the seat to be pressed crooked into plastic, paired with the seat latching the viton.

I have never seen a needle so small without a lever arm/fork helping it - even line trimmer carbies

Hi Tyler,
I'm fairly convinced the problem is in the seat more than the needle. I now have 5 needles sitting there and holding fuel with the tap left turned on for 24 hours. I have polished up all the seats with Autosol on the cotton bud and I'm now fairly comfortable I could fit these to any mower and not have problems and even comfortable that if the fuel is left turned on it won't cause issues. You can only tell people so many times to make sure the fuel is turned off. Now my next test will be on all the needles I have in the reject container to see if I can get them to hold fuel as well. That will be interesting and hopefully polishing the seats in the caps will fix it.Another thing I have noticed with polishing the seat is that every needle moves up and down without sticking in the seat. It was always 50/50 before. Stay tuned I think I have solved it.

Good job NormK.
I can't say a I've ever had a problem with a needle unless the tip has rounded instead of being pointy.
I've only dealt with original Victa primer caps though AFAIK.

Ok so I kept those carbies with the fuel turned on for 24 hours and they all held fine. Now I have 2 on test that were in my reject needle container, 2 new primer caps and gave the seats a polish with the Autosol. One leaked fairly quickly so I polished it again and now it is holding so I will leave them on test for the next 24 hours. Hopefully they will pass the test. Seems the only way I can sort these out

Norm

What about the other problem of the needle sticking in the seat making the mower impossible to start
How can you check for that
Both my Carbymaster primer caps and needles work perfectly but both stuck shut when new

2 yrs done the track and all is good.

Jeff

Hi Jeff,
What I have noticed after polishing the seat is that when I test the needle with the float the needles all drop out of the seat instantly, before polishing them it was a 50/50 as to it sticking or not. I had always just assumed the weight of the fuel would push it down but as you know sometimes they would stick. I'm fairly confidant after polishing that the needles won't stick and everyone I have polished holds fuel, fingers crossed this is the answer I have been chasing for years

Norm, Repco have 1kg tub of autosol for $45 next week; interested in a lifetime supply?

I will be going down to get a tube sometime as the valve lapping paste is still a little too coarse

Thanks Tyler but I think that the amount of Autosol I use on each seat, this tube will last me another 300 years. And my wife bought me a big box of cutton buds so the fact they are banning them from tomorrow in SA and Vic in 2 years, I have a lifetime supply tucked away

I thought you were having a lend Norm, but sure enough; cant believe they are banning cotton buds. Don't even know if you can still get the wood ones anymore

To solve one thing doesn't solve everything.
An improvement is a one step of innovation.
It does it because there is reason.
Now, frustration comes along our way.
But still, we persevere because there's a solution.

CM

I'm hearing you Mr Miyagi, wax on wax off

Hi all, been following as I'm having issues myself, but I just thought I'd ask the question- has anyone ever tried fitting an entirely different carby? Walbro / Zama etc?

Do i and report..
speedy

There is nothing wrong with the carbies, they are a brilliant design and will operate under the most awful conditions unlike most other carbies. The one and only real issue with them (apart from a couple of Victa design blunders) is the float needle. The Viton tipped are a big improvement so it seems the seat is the major fault now. Polishing the seat with a cotton bud and metal polish in a battery drill does help but no guarantee it solve the problem. So annoying that all other carby manufacturers can make needle and seats that work perfectly and still we continue to fight these. The Carbymaster has come up with a number of improvements but they continue to be problematic

My dad bought a Waltons store brand mid arch Celestial 160 in the late 1970s V177 code and it had the G4 carb with no prImer. He took it to a mower shop a few years later because it wouldn't start.
It came back with a white primer cap fitted as per the 1978 bulletin instructing such fitment to mowers brought in for any attention to the carburettor.
That mower was what I considered a reliable mower like you consider a vehicle reliable. You knew it would start by the second or third pull (it would never start first pull) and get the grass done. It sadly didn't get much use in it's first half of life as my dad was a bit yearly mower if that!! Only when I became old enough to operate it, did it come out od the shed far far more often!

Hi Normk,

We are almost there to put this float needle issue to an end. Most of the carburetor needle seat have lever as we knew. They all experienced the same thing and luck if not without the level in place. Lever has its single purpose is to pull the needle to allow fuel to flow and to shut off the valve when full. This is what trying to implement on this Victa. With my prototype it always open and shut off the needle valve as intended regardless. How much more for the final manufactured needle float lever? This is what everyone is waiting for. Once I successfully tested a sample, I can give them a go to mass produce the product and would be available for everyone. The reason why the metal needle has a crown during the design and not following the original design is because of this purpose, "the lever" the grab on an angle. It was planned and took me years to implement and to convince the manufacturer to make the tooling and to mass produce. I expect it would be cheaper than the viton tip needle.

Cheers,
CM

Hi CM,
I just hope you can recoup the tooling costs on this venture it seems the volume of PT's kicking around now seems to have drastically reduced and as Max says he can't be bothered trying to sell PT's because people don't want them

Hi Normk,

Selling the product is only secondary to me or just a bunos. It is the achievement and challenge to come up with this solution that works and benefits everyone Victa enthusiast, professional and home small engine mechanics working on PT. It is the self satisfaction to be part of it. I don't expect to cover the cost of tooling. I do this for everyone.

Cheers,
CM

Hi CM,
that is very noble of you to go to all the trouble of trying to solve this needle problem but you should't do it unless you can at least recover your costs, not make any money but you should recover your costs. I have probably 60/70 tested/running motors here but that won't help much with your costs

The sad thing is it's a very worthwhile endeavour that may be the sorely needed long overdue breakthrough to making these near 100% reliable, but the public out there have no idea about it and the more machines are crushed by the garbage contractor truck, the greater their attrition as they're no longer made.

It seems at least some words are spreading. I came across a random YouTuber who's using them.

The rear discharge power torque just doesn't sell well in my area, sometimes I just want to get rid of a couple serviced mowers
quickly and put a couple for sale with alloy bases + catchers and they are advertised at $50. for the lot of 2 serviced mowers .

Then after a week or 2 of them still not selling ,I just put one for sale at $50. and eventually it will sell.

No problems selling 4 strokes at $100.


Cheers
Max.

Here is another idea I might try Max, convert a rear discharge PT into a sidethrow because the sidethrows always sell

I guess you would need to have a mulch plug in the back of the mower Norm or make up a rear blade cowl
so you don't loose air flow to throw the grass out ,then the base would need to be reinforced on the
side where you cut the side discharge position out . The air flow is wrong with a rear discharge to
be used as a side discharge as the rear discharge opens up mostly at the back where the side
discharge opens up mostly at the side discharge port.

The rear side discharge sheet metal cover didn't seem to take off. I think people like the look of the Utility.

Pity we can't get 100 Utility bases stamped out at a cheap price.

Cheers
Max.

I had forgotten about the rear discharge cover, nobody ever inquired about it, maybe the whole idea is dumb but the little sidethrow utilities are a cracking machine to use on long grass. I used one a few days ago and it just blitzes it. Pity they are in limited numbers

I was lucky enough to find a discarded PT ute chassis at a mower shop skip bin a year ago, complete with good wheels and the high capacity tank.
I had found a domestic PT with worn out (but a still useable) surface rust coated rear catcher deck which turned out to have a good motor after a quick clean of the carb and moved it over to the ute which I now use as the household mower!
Funny thing is the other mower had a chute attached to the back.

There is not one word I am allowed to use on this forum to describe how I feel about these float needles/primer caps. The words I can use do not describe how I feel about them

Hi Norm,

I'd try pushing the old seat out of an old cap and pull the new seat out and push the old seat into the new cap as I use new
needles in old caps and none have had a problem.


I think the new caps you could cut the seat to get a bigger seat but it's so small it's very difficult to see how much you are cutting the seat


Cheers
Max.

Hi Max,
I don't think there is any taper cut into the seats, It is very hard to see but I think they are cut flat and stuff the end user. When I use the cotton bud to polish the seat the end of the cotton bud ends up completely square with no sign of taper at all. Typical of Chinese manufacturing junk

Hi Norm,

Yes I've seen some like that with very minimum taper ,I might try putting an old brass seat into a new cap and see how that
works with the Viton needle.

I've had a few new manufactured items from China that don't work from day one but usually you can use parts from the
second hand item to get them working.


Cheers
Max.

I have been trying to work out how I can cut a bit of a seat into them. I thought I had solved the problem cleaning the burr off the inside but that is only partially fixing the problem lately.
Ok so now I have tried to cut a miniscule seat using a pointed Dremel HSS tip by hand with a couple of turns. I have pushed up on the float with a lot more pressure that the fuel could ever do and the float still drops. Some of the needles I have had to grind a fraction off the end to allow the float to drop enough to allow the fuel to flow. I will see if the seats now stop the fuel or I have to throw the caps out

Today, partial success , but still patchy. I reamed the seats and got the needles to drop without issues. Problem is some times fuel pours out the primer bulb. Put another needle in and it can work fine, motor starts straight up and works fine. Using this method I ended up getting 4 mowers starting and running fine. This method appears to be working but it is time consuming getting a needle and seat to work together but it appears now that once I get them working in this manner, they seem to keep starting and working fine. I will see how they shape up tomorrow, but this seems about the most success I have ever had with these caps and needles. Time will tell

Hi Norm,

I was going to grind up a small stone to the right shape to grind the taper and see if that works.

It does sound like the needles you have aren't very good if some work and others don't.

Sounds like you are getting somewhere with them now.

Cheers
max.

Hi Max,
I think the tiny reamer is the best option, it is nice and sharp and I can control it easily in a small chuck and give it a couple of turns with a bit of pressure on it. It pulls out small shaving of brass. I don't think there is much between the different suppliers they all seem as bad as each other, they are all coming out of the same factory. I would like to do another half dozen just to see if this is the answer

Latest update is all 4 mowers fired up this morning, a couple fired up and stopped a couple of time but eventually fired up and ran fine. Can I say for sure this fixes the problem, I'm not sure but at this stage I feel comfortable with these 4 that they have been fixed. I have wasted massive hours dealing with this Chinese junk but hopefully this info may help somebody in the future

Checked a couple of them today to see what was happening, one started up fine but the second one just flooded out the primer bulb. I guess I can live with a 50% strike rate

I noticed in a tin of stuff that I inherited that I have red, white, grey and black plastic needles.

Danny

Hi Danny,
you can always try them nothing to loose, just a bit of time. The different colours are different lengths, you put the needle in the cap and put the float on and put it up to the light so you can check when the float is up the float doesn't hit on the body of the cap. When you look at it you will see what I mean. Then fit the cap to the carby body and see what happens, either stick up or flood out the primer bulb

I need a yellow to complete the set...or are there others?

I was given a Victa Tornado mower (blue one) earlier in the year from a bloke who still seems to find stuff by the roadside (Campelltown NSW area}. I used it back in May and it started first time and worked fine. I went to start it a week ago and nothing, then noticed fuel dripping out of the primer cover(not the bulb).

I pulled the cover and the black needle was reluctant to part company with it's seat. Anyway, cleaned it all up, dropped everything, cleaned it all up, put it back together again and after blowing out the filter and, just because I came across some, gave it a puff of Aerostart down the tube.
Went like a bought one. I suppose I can expect more trouble with that plastic needle? I have learnt that the black needles are probably hardest to find on the garage floor!

Danny