OutdoorKing Repair Forum Forums Repairs and Maintenance Questions on Engines Questions On Victa Two Stroke Engines I'm done with Victa float needles

In that case NK, you'll be back to Victas in no time at all!

There's nothing worth watching Norm.

Hi all,

Just thought I'd throw in my 2 cents, some of which has already been covered, and also as general info for anyone searching the forum in the future.

1. Use 2-stroke oil, not 4-stroke:
-> 4-stroke could be stickier, causing the valve to gum up
-> 4-stroke may separate more over time, exacerbating the issue
-> 2-stroke has additional fuel stabilisers to keep the mix more stable for longer without separating
-> 2-stroke has specific additives (detergents, etc) for 2-stroke engines to prevent build-ups and additional exhaust pollution

2. Use 98 octane fuel:
-> 98 octane fuel, as well as 2-stroke mix, contains fuel stabiliser agents and detergents to keep the fuel stable for longer and can assist in the blending of fuel and 2-stroke mix
-> 98 octane fuel is more stable, resulting in a more consistent burn in the combustion chamber
-> The detergents in it alone, let alone when coupled with a premium 2-stroke mix, can help to clear out gummed up passages faster and more easily

3. Use premium 2-stroke oil:
-> Premium 2-stroke oil contains additional stabiliser agents and detergents to assist further with lubrication and keeping the oil/fuel stable for longer

4. Do not let the mower run dry:
-> This is specifically noted in the PowerTorque Owner's Manual
-> While this occurring on occasion may not do any serious damage to the engine immediately, over time this can have dire consequences
-> Turning off the fuel tap before cutting out the engine could cause suction on the line, pulling the needle up and into the seat with more force, having an adverse effect. Leave fuel in the fuel line above the needle

5. Even with premium 2-stroke oil, do not mix more than 25:1:
-> 25:1 is more than enough to keep the engine running smoothly
-> Using 25:1 with premium 2-stroke oil (As opposed to the recommended 50:1) will provide more than enough lubrication and will mix well with the fuel

6. Starting procedure (Victa):
-> Ensure the spark plug is connected
-> Turn the fuel tap on
-> Move the throttle to the "RUN" position, then back to the "START" position
-> COLD START: Press the primer bulb slowly 3 times, pausing between each press
-> HOT START: Priming is only necessary if the mower fails to start on the first pull
-> Pull the starter handle slowly until it engages, then quickly once engaged. Return the starter cord slowly until recoiled
-> Run the engine in the "START" position for 10 seconds or until warm, then move the throttle to "RUN"
-> Keep the throttle in the "RUN" position in all mowing conditions

7. Starting procedure (pau13z):
-> Before turning on the fuel, top the tank up with some fresh 2-stroke mix
-> After turning on the fuel, give the mower a bit of a shake/roll on the ground. This will help mix any fuel/oil in the tank that may have separated (Aided by the fuel you just added), and help to knock loose the needle if it may have stuck
-> Press the primer bulb 3-8 times slowly, then move the throttle to and from the "STOP" and "RUN" positions several times, before settling back on the "START" position
-> Only a gentle and not "super fast" pull of the starter cord should be required to kick over the engine

I've only ever used premium 2-stroke oil with 98 octane fuel. I currently have 5 working mowers in my garage, some of which haven't been started in over a year. With fresh 2-stroke and a bit of shake/rattle/roll, I almost always get a start within 1-2 pulls

FYI, the current carby available from Victa (Whole unit replacement) is really good. I've had carby's previously that look OK, replaced all of the parts, no leaks, nothing apparently wrong, however, the mower won't start. Replace the whole body, up and running immediately. In my experience, the needle has been the least of my worries

As for the Viton tipped needles, my thoughts are that while they should provide "the" superior seal, remember, this seal is to stop fuel entering the float chamber. If the needle is stuck open you'd know because the fuel would come out of the primer bulb as the float chamber fills up. If the seal is working TOO well, it could get stuck up in the seat, especially if a vacuum has formed between the fuel line and the needle. The hard plastic needle should be more than enough to stop the fuel coming in, but also the best to "pop" loose and allow fuel to come out.

Check my horrible drawing.... If the tip of the needle gets stuck in the seat because the soft rubber tip gets sucked in, it may not want to release. Just my thoughts, I'm sure you all deal with more mowers than I do, as I said, I just wanted to throw in my 2 cents

Excellent post pau 13. I can imagine the rubbery tip on the viton needles could pose their own problems and be more prone to jamming.
I thought 95 was enough but I will get 98 next time, especially after the point you made about stability over time.
I ran a Ryobi 31cc 2 stroke powered bike on Shell Optimax when it first came out about 2000 and noticed the performance boost immediately.

Great thread.

Hey Norm, I have not gone through as many PTs as you, and probably not as much as the others here. But I've had steel needles, black needles, yellow needles and pink needles. They all seem to work fine.

My troubles all seem to be with governing. I don't know why, must be air leaks somewhere, even though I've replaced the usual seals. Going to buy two full replacement carbies and see where I end up.

Did I read correctly that you add sump oil to the fuel to make your mix? I echo the others here. Reckon that might be causing issues for you.

Hi Norm,

Please do not give up Norm. We will never get another other engine to run a Super 24 like a Victa. They need a two stroke and what else is there? I know we have talked about those Suzuki clones at times but they are expensive, a bit small and they are known for carby issues as well.

I must admit that I have had the best results with old plastic needles although both my metal needles are OK at the moment. I think there is something in shaking the whole mower a bit before and after starting. I do that as a routine but its not the type of thing your customers will like to hear.

How are you anyway? I hope your operation went well and your are recovering well. Can you get down to your workshop yet? All will seem much better when you can.

All the best
Jeff

Hi Norm ,
Here are the dimensions for the steel Victa needle, a rough drawing from the laptop touchpad.

The steel Victa needle is 3.1mm diameter ( ark welding rod is 3.25 mm) so it could be made from a nail.
If need be you can file or grind a couple of flat sections on the side of the needle for more fuel flow.

Cheers
Max.

Excellent write up Pau13z.

The only bit I don't necessarily agree with is suction due to turning the tap off causing the needle to stick worse - there is a hole in the primer that will let air pressure out.

I use 98 with semi for full synthetic oil as well - the Victa's don't complain, and my starting procedure is identical to yours.

That being said, 98 shouldn't be a requirement for one of these to run - I have had very little success convincing others to use it. And I can guarantee a potential customer would balk at the requirement when a Briggs will run normally (which is to say quite averagely) on 91.

What they don't know is that most of there whipper snippers and leaf blowers are supposed to run 98 Ron as well (the manuals all say 91 r+m/2 - which is the american method)

Powerfit Semi synth oil is at bunnings for $10 a litre bottle - best price for semi-synth 2 stroke oil I can find. I used it when it was branded Ryobi and it seemed fine.

G'day everyone,

I guess i'll just also add my 2c worth here on premium 98 unleaded fuels and my experiences with it.

Many years ago I did try a mix of BP Ultimate 98 unleaded in the 2 stroke mix, I didn't think it made any difference at all in how the engine ran it seemed the same as running it on standard 91 unleaded. The only thing I do remember though was that my eyes seem to sting a bit and possibly my nose was stinging a bit from the gases emitted from burning the 98 in my lawnmower. I straight away went back to regular 91 which doesn't seem to irritate the eyes and airways so much. Well this was my experience running it in the 2 stroke mix. Because of this I always just stick to regular 91, this is also what Victa used to recommend to run the 2 strokes on.

Another thing is don't really believe all the hype about how stable or how much this premium 98 petrol will help to prevent rust in the fuel system etc. It may be better if it's left in a tank for maybe just a few months and constantly refreshed with fresh fuel. I once had this premium 98 unleaded in an older car with a steel tank thinking that it would better protect the steel tank and other lines on the vehicle from rusting away. The result was it completely rusted out the inside of the steel petrol tank! Wherever this premium 98 fuel was touching inside the tank it was rusted right out! The fuel was sitting in the tank for a very long time though.

Well anyway that's just my 2c worth on this premium 98 unleaded petrol. In the end I think the only advantage of this fuel is if you actually need the higher octane of 98 to prevent pinging or knocking on an older engine or on a performance engine. It may have slightly better additives for cleaning the injectors or whatever on a newer vehicle. But as I mentioned don't leave it in any tank for a long time as it will rust it out. I learnt this the hard way.

Cheers!

Hi all,

I mostly use BP 95 or 98 because I am reasonably certain there is no ethanol in it. I also use a fuel stabiliser and quality 2 stroke oil. I’ve had good success with metal and plastic needles. With this method I feel I’m doing all I can to keep fuel as fresh as possible so I can be confident my 3 victa machines and 8 year old ryobi whipper snipper will start easily with the same procedure every time.

Cheers,

John

The suction isn't on the float chamber side, it's on the fuel hose side.

This could happen either way but it's more likely if the fuel hose is empty.

Think of it like this... If the fuel hose is full of fuel because you stopped the mower, and then turned off the fuel tap, and then, after being stored for a week the fuel pressure changes because it's cold in the shed. The pressure and vacuum in the fuel hose will change a bit.

Then instead, imagine if that fuel line was empty and full of air, or partially full of air. It gets cold, the air molecules condense and the pressure lowers, creating vacuum or suction in the hose. It can't suck from the tap side, so it sucks from the needle side, then the rubber tip gets pulled into the seat in the primer cap and gets stuck.

Does that make sense?

Converse, I repaired a mates mower last year (talon) and he asked why it didn't smell as much during use. All I had done was drain the dirt out of the tank & carby and refill with fresh 98 octane.
Maybe 91 has more sulphur in it and make it stink. Fuel and can was fine - it was the fuel line disintegrating inside that made it clog and surge.He said it returned to normal smell after he refilled.


That being said, when ever I really hammer the car (which I try to avoid but sometimes you can't), it stinks of rotten egg gas from the cat convertor, and thats on 98.

I am in the process of reading a rather interesting book on motor petroleum, and it does make mention of a quite concerning increase in octane requirement with even small amounts of carbon build up. Once I have a bit of a re-read, I will remember what the figure was. Its is a book made after tetra-ethyl lead, but before MTBE was banned

Thanks Pau13z, I understand what you mean now

I wonder how long it actually takes for the fuel to evaporate out of the fuel line. I might have to do a bit of an experiment

Regards
Tyler

Hi Tyler, I can give you my story on this, when I first bought my old Ford XC Falcon with the 302 V8, there was still good old Leaded Super available and the engine loved that stuff. Anyway after a few years they started phasing out Leaded Super and were replacing it with that LRP "Lead Replacement Petrol". Anyway after a while I noticed my engine started to make a metallic tapping type noise under hard revs. I didn't really quite know what this noise was I was thinking maybe something was a bit loose and rattling around the engine. Anyway I took my mate for a drive who was more into working on engines and race cars at the time and asked him what he thought this noise was. He said it sounds like the engine is pinging. I was like gees it never used to do that before. Then it clicked, it was the new damn LRP "Lead Replacement Petrol". It must have had a lower octane than the old Leaded Super where my engine never pinged at all. I never knew what the sound of pinging was when the car was always run on Leaded Super. Anyway there is my experience in finding out all about how good the old Leaded petrol was for those classic engines. I think back then Leaded Super had an octane rating of 97 or 98? That new LRP rubbish was like running water compared to good old Super!

Yes these days if you want to try and put a stop to your older engine from pinging your best bet is to try running it on Premium 98. In most cases it will stop the engine pinging because of the higher octane like the old Leaded Super used to be. I have ran some older 4 cylinder cars from the early 80's on premium 98 and it has stopped the pinging completely. If I run these engine's on anything lower than 98 they will ping. It's probably also from years of carbon build up in the chambers. Well I know running 98 has stopped the pinging on older engines and you don't have to mess around with rebuilding the distributor or adjusting the timing.

Then there's the other thing about how the older engines hard softer exhaust valve seats and this is where the old leaded petrol used to coat things and look after them. Some older cars had hardened valve seats and can be safely run on unleaded where others need some sort of additive added to the fuel to try and save the valve seats.

Cheers!

That what I do Converse, the Camira now gets 98, with valve saver every other fill - it has an alloy head and supposedly doesn't need any valve saver. But Red and Blue Holden engines would, same as 302 Fords and probably any 3.3L or 4.1 straight 6 before the XD got the Honda designed alloy head.

I put the timing back a couple more degrees last month as it was pinging at bigger throttle openings (under 15 mm hg on the economy gauge - remember them?), and I think another tweak is in order next week when I do the 6 monthly oil change (only does 1100km between them).

Its funny in the off season we all end up talking about cars as much as mowers haha, but I'm not complaining

Except for that one time, I've always run my PTs on 91, but I add Sta-Bil. I read a tech paper from someone who'd know (it was either an engine manufacturer, or oil company, but I can't remember which!) and they recommended sticking with 91 RON. The only exception is for smaller, high performance two strokes that rev. I'll use MotoMix for those. I thought that was a great way to part with my money until I read the patent and tech papers on that.

Funny about the mention of sulphur content in fuels. I cannot stand the smell of burnt 91. I can pick who uses what fuel in their car, and it's not necessarily a gift...!

I do love the smell of AVGAS on a hot day...bring back the TEL.

I can also sense which RON they put in Mystyler, especially the cars about 15-20 years old now that their flash lambda sensors aren't so precise with age and wear

I found where the book said about octane requirement increase (ORI). Just so I don't end up crowding Norm's Victa Needle thread too much with this good more car petrol related info, I will make a new thread and put the info in there

Regards
Tyler

Yes, sorry Norm! I must say though, I have more than just a passing interest in fuels. I'll be keen on the new thread Tyler.

So yes, yes. Er, keep up the good work Norm, don't get discouraged. You won't be beaten by a little piece of plastic, will you?

Here's the Link for it,

https://www.outdoorking-forum.com.au/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/100306/petrol-octane.html#Post100306


My apologies as well Norm.

Hi Jeff,
too much info happened here at the moment so I will address the 600 issue with you. I have 2 of them here and I am convinced these slashers are not suited to the PT's for some reason. I have fitted 4 motors to these and they do not work well. The motors run fine on a standard base. I'm at the point of contemplating fitting F/C's on them. The bloke who owns one of them was on about fitting a Suzuki on his but I had told him I thought they might be too small cc wise, he wasn't listening but I think I convinced him yesterday when I told him they were a Chinese copy. He is trying to find a Honda for it now. At least I have a drawing here somewhere of the adapter plate that I need to make to fit an F/C on the later base.

To be fair I have gone through over 100 of the viton tipped needles, some work fine and never have a problem, then some cause issues and when this happens I can go through as many as 4 primer caps and needles before I get a combination that works and that mower settles down.These issues always arise usually in the first week or so so I do not believe oil is the issue but it could be if the mower was left to sit for many months.


Hi Max, I will make up one of those needles and see if it works, there is another 5 PT's I put in the front garage that I haven't looked at yet. Probably a good starting point With the needles, even with the viton tipped ones I have had to shorten a few of them by about half a mm. This must be because the seat height (depth) must vary slightly in the primer cap. When the primer cap is fitted in the body, the float is unable to drop enough to allow the needle to drop away from the seat. This is also compounded by the fact the viton tip will swell a fraction after a day in the fuel and this combined with the limited float travel it can be enough to stop the fuel flow. Anyway I will go and work on a Briggs some bloke dropped off here last night