OutdoorKing Repair Forum Forums Restoring, Customising and Modifying Tech Talk 2 Stroke oils, Mineral v synthetic

Continued on from this topic

Hopefully starting a new topic will make searches in the future less cluttered and easier

MF, out of interest, what is the JASO rating for the Aldi brand oil.

I am away at the moment, so can't tell you. It's blue in colour, does that help?

I have just been having a look, and know the one you mean. Only picture I could find was from 2017, and was small.

Its funny, it was on the same page as their mowers and trimmers - wonder how many of the ones they sold in 2017 are still running

It would have to be JASO FD grade. FA&FB are generally minerals or very poor semi-synthetic, most semis are FC and full synthetic are FD. I don't know how they come to the conclusion of of the ratings, but FD means very little ash and carbon build up is allowed.

From the MSDS (bearing in mind I am no chemist), I can see the flashpoint of the greenskeeper mineral oil (when it will burn) is 115 degrees, whereas full synth is 94 degrees. semi is in the middle at 97 degrees.
That means a more complete and clean burn (or at least thats my understanding)

G'day folks,

Just had a look at a bottle of that Aldi Gardenline full-synth 2-stroke oil out in the shed [marked as made 24/05/2017, in UAE], and it doesn't list any Industry Specs compliances at all! Just a list of seven product codes, of Gardenline products with two stroke engines, to which it is suited.

Not only that, the same Aldi product code, 51773, is also used for the 4-stroke oil....

Interestingly, the support/info website listed on the bottle [www.powertoolsupport.com] and its successor, www.extrabattery.com.au, are both now defunct.
However, a look at archived copies over at The Wayback Machine revealed that they hosted nil info on the oils anyway.

And, those websites were also the spare parts source for the Gardenline OPE machines.

From memory Toolhub, or toolclub is now the distributer of aldi gardenline parts

Help.tools (tool klub) is now called positec (what a load of BS).

Their number is 1800 909 909 - which gives a pretty good indication that it all stems from 909 tools - the old masters brand that was previously GMC.

And so the plot thickens

Now this really annoys me. Positec make Worx and Rockwell tools. And they must be somehow related to 909 Gardenline.

Yet on their website they claim how they are devoting 'ourselves to ridding the world of these pollution-pumping petrol parasites by promoting a full-line of electric and battery-powered lawn equipment that is emission-free. '

Yet they have their name on the top of a webpage that sells petrol mower parts

Hypocrites

As long as my Victa, Ryobi and Mitsubishi petrol equipment don't blow up, I'll be satisfied.

I have been looking at this topic over the past week, and from what I can find, JASO FB, FC & FD all have the same lubrication, but FD improves exhaust smoke & carbon deposits. Husqvarna semi-synth LS+ oil is FD despite being only a semi. $14 a litre roughly.

As a side note, I have been reading a 1978 paper that was arguing for a standardised system of measuring 2 stroke oils. They proposed a garden standard (using a mac chainsaw for measurements), a motor bike standard (using 180cc Vespa) and a outboard standard (using yamaha something).

Might have to start a 4 stroke oil thread now to discuss car oil v SAE 30 mower oil

Hi Tyler,

I'm noticing that quite a few of the stationary engines manufacturers are now specifying Automotive oil and not the older format SAE30 oils.

Briggs is just one of them while Honda are also part of this change, but in saying that they are still marketing it in containers using a different label which points it towards the mower industry. Many companies of other types of items that are usable in both the Marine and Automotive industry have exactly the same item inside the packaging but just sporting a different label.

It's called "Marketing" so they tell me ???

Cheers,
BB.

Reminds me of power steer fluid and ATF. 500ml of power steer fluid cost the same as a litre of ATF on the same shelf. Exactly the same stuff.

Hi MF,

That's my exact point, which more expensive horses for Royal Randwick courses. LOL !

Cheers,
BB.

And that is why I have always just used engine oil in my 2 strokes, never bought a bottle of 2 stroke oil in my life.

Which is fine when engine are using pressurize oil systems as the detergents will suspense the contaminates other than metal chunks for the oil filter to catch. Here Briggs is switching from the 5W30 synthetic recommendation to a 15W50 synthetic due to better upper heat range. Still should use the SAE30 non detergent for non pressurized as contaminates will settle to the bottom on the engine. Also need to continue to the 5W30 for below freezing operations as it makes starting easier.

So that is what the blue haze from the West is. Norm cutting grass.

Hmm, one way to use up some used engine oil. Do you just use any multigrade or monograde oil lying around?
Would used engine oil be detrimental and do you use the same ratio of 25:1 or whatever other specified ratio?

I don't think that using used engine oil would be such a good idea, I probably have a couple of hundred liters sitting here, always a pain to get rid of.I did know a bloke who had an oil burning paddle steamer up on the Murray, I think it was called the Iron Maiden, but I haven't seen him for a couple of years. I might have to chase him up again so I can get rid of the oil I have here, that is unless the greenies have tracked him down and put paid to his little steamer.

What about the ratio and type of engine oil?
I imagine the greenies (or watermelons -red inside) would have a fit. Then again they always find something to gripe about with people going about their lives normally.

I just run everything 25 to 1 keeps it simple and whatever engine oil I have here at the time

And they never blow up, score the piston or smoke much?

I mowed the lawn once while the greenies were having a meet in the local park - they were not happy

With regard to 4 strokes, I use regular car oil. I tend to use 15w40 cheap oil (the $8-10 per 5l on super special Gulf westerns or Nulon types) for a few mows after I get a mower. That strips the muck out.
After the few mows, I drain it and put in Magnatec 10w30 or GTX, or any other good 10w30.

However, I change the oil before it gets dirty - probably a good idea for the average person (who only changes it once every 2-3 years or more) to use the non detergent so the dirt remains at the bottom.
On that note, what ever happened to flushing oil? I got a bottle of Nulon engine flush for free, but haven't used it. Don't know what it might do.

I might try blending my Aldi Gardenline brand synthetic 2 stroke oil with some spare motor oil to make up my own cheap semi synthetic fuel mix.

Probably would do no harm MF. Because of the little amount I go through, I will just stick with the rip-off 2 stroke specific oil. Probably has no difference in the long run.
80ml left in the semi-synth bottle, should only be another month or so before I open the full synth.
I am betting no difference, but I have the guinea pigs to try it out on. These early cold winter nights, 6:30 pm with a led torch is perfect for seeing how much smoke comes out of victa exhausts.

G'day everyone,

I remember reading this post a while ago so I thought i'd post it here. This guy says he has ran his Victa Mustang on Castrol GTX and ron95 petrol for decades and it runs fine.

https://www.outdoorking-forum.com.au/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/56799/2.html

I will keep using the mineral based Castrol 2 stroke self mix as i've been using it now for around 25 years or so.

I will probably switch over to synthetic 2 stroke oil when I can no longer buy the mineral based 2 stroke oil.

Cheers!

Hi there Converse,
good read from the golden era of Victa discussion (although we are experiencing a renaissance of sorts thankfully).

Just on the news that the majority of motor vehicles on the road get absolutely no benefit from using 95 or 98 fuel, claiming it is a complete waste of money and all these cars are far more sophisticated than a very basic design motor mower. So my belief is still that using 2 stroke oil only is designed to benefit the oil companies because they have been scamming the public since the year dot with all their marketing hype and now the proof is out there regarding fuels as well

G'day folks,
The potential issues with modern 4-stroke oils in 2-strokes are mainly due to the differing additive packs between the oil types.

Modern lube oils consist of a 'base oil' blend, plus various additives. Something like the 1950s Castrol XL had bugger all additives, in comparison to the current Castrol XL!

Without getting into the chemistry, modern 4-stroke oils can be up to 50% additives, to boost properties such as: anti-wear, detergency/dispersancy, anti-foam, anti-rust, viscosity index, anti-oxidation; to name the major ones.

Not all of these 4-stroke additives function as intended in a 2-stroke engine with its 'total loss lubrication', and they create three main potential problems;

1. Additives may not mix into, or remain dissolved in, petrol; they may also form gums
2. Some of them are metal-based, and will leave significant solid ash on burning, which can be abrasive and/or leave deposits in the combustion chamber - 2-stroke additives are ashless or low-ash.
3. Excessive smoke, as these oils are not designed to burn cleanly, unlike 2-stroke formulations

That said, it can be quite possible to get away with using some types of 4-stroke oil in low-output 2-strokes, such as mowers. I wouldn't use them in brushcutters or chainsaws, though.

And they're not advisable in any really high-performance 2-smokes, e.g. karts, motorbikes, outboards/jetskis, any Rotax engine, etc. Recipe for disaster, right there.

If you must do it, it'd actually be better to go for cheapo generic brand oils, as for sure they will have less additives in them, to save cost.

As far as 4-stroke mower oils go, the main reason for using SAE30 monograde in sidevalve engines [older Briggs etc] is just to minimise oil consumption. Multigrade oils are fine from the lubrication perspective, but in Oz, go for one with at least a SAE20 cold viscosity [i.e. 20Wxx].

As far as cost and low-end 2-stroke oils are concerned, there are two main reasons for their higher cost;
1. Economies of scale - car and truck engine oils are produced in vastly larger quantities - by far the dominant factor. And small retail packs are invariably the dearest option!
2. The additives that are used in 2-stroke oils are more expensive than those in 4-stroke oils, though this affects top-end products to a much greater extent.

Hi Gadge,
I hope you are not telling me not to use engine oil in my Stihl chainsaw I bought for $850 back in 1984, which was a lot of money back then and it is still in great working condition although I haven't used it for 12 months.

Hi Gadge,
do you mean pick 20W XX if you must use it for two strokes, or did you mean for the side valve four?

Penrite is on 30% special at super cheap this weekend

the full synth is $25 save $10

The semi synth is $11.64.

Super Cheap (and just about every other business under the sun) have that black friday sale this week

The best deal SCA have is Gulf Western Semi synth 2 stroke oil - 4l for $9.50. It meets JASO FC, and the price is definitely right

https://www.supercheapauto.com.au/p...z=60&start=8&prefv1=Gulf+Western .

Thanks Tyler, that is supercheap, I'm going to head off and get a couple of them and also see if I can use Jeans SCA card as well.

A pity, my local one at least, no longer stock Penrite 15w40 premium mineral motor oil. Semi synthetic only.
Superstupid.

Couldn't find it at the local store they had plenty on the shelves but at $31 I asked at the counter if they had any of the $9.50 ones and she said they were down the back.I went and had another look, still couldn't find it, had the 2 dogs in the car and it was hot so I had to give up on it

Norm, do what I do - click and collect and pick up next day or later in the week at a cooler time

Always have issues finding where the stock is at my local as well (and no staff will help), so free click and collect means those bludgers have to find it haha

MF, penrite 15w40 is 1/2 price $25 at repco this weekend - but its semi synthetic unfortunately

Thanks for the heads up Tyler. My local Repco normally stocks the mineral stuff. I hope that's included or did you mean they have it but it's not discounted?

Just checked MF, its semi synth only on special - will let you know if I see any 15w40 penrite mineral out cheap

If you would, thanks, even if it's Auto Barn. There is one a fair drive away. I'll just have to stock up.

Auto barn is also a fair drive away for me as well

I stocked up on the castrol ultra clean the other week - I now have about 40l of it sitting around

Will use probably 5l this week on some of my mowers

Norm, not quite so good a deal as before, but $13 for the 4L isn't too bad https://www.supercheapauto.com.au/p...oke-oil---4-litre/545139.html?cgid=SCA50 .

If you do a click and collect, they should have it at the front of the store for you so you can quickly pick it up and be on your way - I know the sort of weather you are having over there

They also have the penrite 5l bar oil for $17.5 which is ok considering repco were $42 last I checked

Thanks Tyler, just checked and it comes up not stocked in the 4 stores close to me but it does show up in Carrum Downs so I might drive over there.

Was at SCA today - some stores still have Castrol 2t 1L bottles for $4.77 each. Pretty Cheap as far as 2 stroke oil goes. Wouldn't use in a new Stihl or Husky, but probably fine for old ones

Osbourne Park WA has 4-5 bottles on the shelf as at 2pm today, and it didn't look like they had been touched for a while