OutdoorKing Repair Forum Forums Repairs and Maintenance Questions on Walk Behind Lawn Mower Frames Victa Lawn Mower Frames Victa Self-Propelled - Difficult Manual Movement

Hi all,

I've got a Victa MSV562 Self-Propelled mower, and I've noticed that when the drive belt isn't engaged, moving the mower forward is often much more difficult, but also when trying to move backwards, the rear wheels sometimes lock up and if they don't, it's still just as difficult to move backwards.

Is this normal? Is there possibly a problem with the gearbox?

Also, I've found that when the drive belt engages, even at the lowest clutch setting, the mower moves faster than I would imagine for the "Slow" setting. Sometimes it will grab a little and move slow briefly, but then it will stop moving as if the belt is slipping. My thoughts are though that if I tighten anything, it will simply grab more and drive at the slowest speed that I'm already getting, but what I'm after is an even slower pace.

What sort of speeds are normal?

Cheers in advance,

pau13z

How long have you had this for Paul is it a recent purchase?

Yeah, I've had it a few weeks, I haven't tinkered with this one at all. It came to me in very good condition. 2nd hand, but it looks like it's been garaged all of its' life.

Paul, the symptons you describe are similar to the early one I have here which is fitted with a full crank, I just thought there was something wrong with it. I also had one here to repair a while ago that was non self propelled model and it was heavy to push around, I don't really know why, to me it was a bit of a pig to use

The unit is heavy, no doubt, so moving around isn't that easy all of the time. But I also have an MSP562 which moves without fault, nice and solid and smooth. In the case of the self-propelled version, it's like the gearbox locks up sometimes, and if it's not, I'm constantly fighting it to move when the gearbox isn't engaged. I just don't know if this is normal behaviour or not.

So Norm, you've had the same issue with a self-propelled? Difficult to move back and forth compared to a push version when the gearbox isn't engaged?

Yes Paul same problem with the one I have here I will hopefully get time soon to get it up on the bench and see what I can find with it, it has been sitting here for a couple of years now so it is getting further up the must look at it pile and decide what to do with it. I got the motor running last year but the gearbox cable had been disconnected and I think it requires the gearbox to be removed to re-connect the cable

What model? When I worked on another 560 series previously I re-connected the gearbox cable without removing it.

Paul I don't know what model it is only that it has a full crank motor, I looked at the cable and I coul;dn't see how I could connect it quickly so I put it back in the shed

I have attached a PDF file showing the parts list. Have a look at item 33 on drawing as it might not be moving freely causing your issue.

Hi Bruce,

So you think it may be an issue with the drive belt tensioner moving back or forth after being pulled on or released? I can imagine that being an issue with the variable speed not engaging at lower speeds, but would that explain the rear wheels locking up when trying to pull the mower backwards? Or the mower being more difficult to move back and forth when the drive belt isn't engaged?

Cheers,

pau13z

Hi Paul, just looking at the diagram Bruce put up, bit hard to see but I don't think they have sprag clutches in the wheels, so that every time you push/pull it you have to rotate the axles through the gearbox. If I get a chance tomorrow I will pull the one I have here out of the shed and pull the rear wheels off and see how it works

Hi Paul, I put this one up on the bench to have a closer look, the reason they are heavy to push when not using the drive is because the rear wheels are having to rotate the gearbox which creates the resistance. Inside the drive gears somehow there is a sprag clutch that allows the rear wheels to rotate backwards when moving the mower backwards. If yours is locking up then there is something wrong inside the gear on one or both of them, I would assume it would only be one wheel and that is an easy test, sit the rear of it on a brick or block of wood and rotate the wheels backwards, you will then know which wheel it is. I haven't tried to remove the gear so not sure how it comes off.

No wonder they often remove the system. They are nice to use but add considerable mass.
That's why a side throw mower is such a refreshing contrast.

Agreed MF not a particularly good design, even though it is a 22 inch cut the 24 is such a better machine

Yes Norm is on the right track about why they are difficult to push,both gear drives have a one way
ratchet so if the ratchet is not working the mower will not push either way.

When the ratchet works the mower will only move freely in one direction only.



Cheers
Max.

Hi Max, the Honda is a better design as it has the clutches external of the wheels the Victa has the clutch somehow mounted in the drive gears. These are a very robust mower but not one of Victas better designs

Ok I think I will give up on the one I have here, I have removed the gearbox/axle assembly and it is slipping inside the gearbox and I have no idea what is inside there so I may just remove all the drive assembly and use it as just a push mower. Without the gearbox it will be able to pushed around much easier unless anybody has any idea as to what is inside the gearbox. At least it has a good SPFC motor on it, I might just put that on a 24.
Another issue I have noticed with this machine that makes them feel heavy and not balanced is the fact the handelbar mounting point is too far forward of the center of the rear axle making them heavy to lift the front wheels up off the ground to use them as a slasher which is what they were designed as

Now this gearbox is starting to bug me, I can't get my head around what it is doing. If I lock it in gear and rotate the pulley on the top of the box in the correct direction I can hold the wheels and they stop, but if I rotate the pulley in the anti clockwise direction the wheels are locked in by the wheel clutches but the wheels are being driven in reverse, it is like the clutches in the drive gears are operating in the wrong direction. I have not worked out the gears are to be removed as yet.

Ok I now really need help with this as I am unable to sleep until I can solve this problem. It is purely a mechanical issue that does not make any sense, simply why do these sprag clutches in the drive gears operate in reverse. I have been thinking if I can lock the gears to the shaft then it will mean when pushing the mower back and forth without the motor running it is going to be turning the gearbox. At this stage I'm not sure how in can lock the gears to the gearbox shaft

Hi Norm,
The first VC self drive mowers have a similar drive as the Honda then the later Victa self drive mowers
are how you describe them having the over run clutch and gear assembly.

The first thing I do is remove the rear wheels and check the drive gears free wheel in one direction
but will drive in the reverse direction when the axles are being driven by the gearbox.

If the gears are driving the wheels in reverse,I would think that the over run clutch needs repairing or replacing.

The only other way the drive gears can work in the opposite direction is if someone puts the left over run clutch
and drive assembly on the right hand side, so if they are installed on the wrong side they drive in reverse because
one is for the left side only the other is right side only..

This self drive setup is nowhere near as durable as the first self drive Victa mowers that used a friction
drive on the treads of the tyres.

Cheers
Max.

Thanks Max, I have thought that the gears might have been installed on the wrong side, all I could think of but so far I haven't worked out how to get the gears off. Doesn't look like the one in the pic, not enough room to fit all those bits in it, the gear looks similar but that is about it. I am stuck on it and I can't give up on this basic engineering principle that is driving me nuts.

Does anyone know if the gearbox setup/config is any different for the 560 series?

I haven't disassembled the gearbox (Or any Victa gearbox to that point), but when I called Victa and asked for official workshop documentation that I could potentially purchase (For either the MSP562/MSV562/MMX482), they reported that essentially the official Victa manual is the Gregorys 424 manual (Which is no longer in production, but which I do own, and in it is reported that many of the images are provided by Victa, so it would appear they've worked collaboratively to produce this publication). The problem is the 424 manual stops at the 550 series and was last modified in 1991 (I believe). So if there was a change to the gearbox setup/functionality, I'm not aware of any official documentation of it, and as far as I'm aware at this point, Victa considers the gearbox/axle assembly a whole unit replacement which they don't intend to be serviced.

So I don't think we'll get any info on internal movements and how to troubleshoot. I think the closest we'll get is troubleshooting the pinion gears on the end of the driveshaft and the overrun clutch. Perhaps for more information, we would need to contact Victa directly and ask them... for this iteration of the gearbox (If it's different to the aforementioned 550 diagrams in the Gregorys manual), how is it supposed to function in relation to moving back and forth, and is locking up of the wheels normal, etc.

I did expect that it would be more difficult at least to a degree to move due to some sort of engagement by the gearbox, and I can deal with the slightly more difficult movement, my main concern is the wheels locking up because if you're doing something as simple as moving in a square, whenever you get to a corner and need to rotate, you can find yourself trying to pull the mower back when the wheels don't want it to move and as everyone has mentioned and it is true... it's not a light unit without pulling it against its' will! An alternative is to lift the rear of the mower and pull it back towards you with the freely moving front wheels, but that should never be recommended or considered a safe option in my opinion.

Thank you all so much for your replies and for looking into this. Unfortunately I haven't had a chance to take another look at my mower and see what's going on, but as soon as I do I'll post an update, but of course, feel free to continue troubleshooting and if there's anything I can help with I will. If you'd like pictures of some pages from the 424 manual to assist, please let me know, I'm more than happy to provide them.

Hi Paul, something that has troubled me a little is the PDF that Bruce put up to me it looks like the gearbox is on the right side of the mower, the height adjuster lever is on the left but the height adjuster quadrant is on the right hand side. Is this how yours is, with mine the box is on the left. Bizare as it might sound I even thought (while trying to go to sleep ) I was trying to work out some lever system with another set of wheels behind the drive ones just so you could push the lever and lift the drive wheels just clear of the ground. I know another dumb idea but I'm running out of ideas. I guess if I did put another pair of wheels on it I could call it a 6 wheeler mower, now that would look cool

Hi Norm,

I actually like the idea of that if it's possible, though I don't think it is without heavy modification. Of course, we wouldn't need to come up with an idea like that if they simply had the gearbox disengage when the drive wheels are moving (Which I think is actually supposed to happen).

As for the image posted, it's nice and confusing. The mower is facing one direction, but they've rotated the gearbox and driveshaft assembly so you're looking at it in the correct direction (As if you're standing behind the mower). I'm at work and don't have the manual in front of me at the moment, but with a quick search, I found the below image, which I have rotated to show what it should look like..ish. When standing at the rear of the mower, the gearbox should be on the left, the height adjustment handle should be on the right, and there should be a steel plate which the height adjustment arm attaches to on the left of the driveshaft (Which reaches forward and connects to the front wheel shaft to adjust the height there).

Hi Norm,

I said before,
"The only other way the drive gears can work in the opposite direction is if someone puts the left over run clutch
and drive assembly on the right hand side, so if they are installed on the wrong side they drive in reverse because
one is for the left side only the other is right side only.."

That is missing information,if you swap the gears to the wrong sides you will have no forward drive the over run
clutch will slip on both sides you would need to turn the drive pulley in the opposite direction when the gears are
on the wrong sides to get reverse drive.

With drawings schematics and pictures,I have seen a lot that are backward as they must have made the image
from the wrong side of the negative.

I'm hearing you Max, it doesn't look as if the gears have been removed at some stage, or it has been operated in this manner for a long time. I'm going to see if I can remove the gears now and let you know what I find.

Thanks Max, good one that is all it was, the gears had been fitted the wrong way around. How could anybody pull the gears out, put it back together, find it doesn't work and just leave it that way. Just in case anybody wants to remove the gear/clutches they are held on with a roll pin that is located through the cut out sections in the gear, you rotate the shaft till you can see the pin and then you can punch it out and the gear/clutch comes off as a complete assembly. Not sure how that comes apart.

Ok I have it all back together and everything appears to be working as it should, pulling backwards is still too heavy for my liking, just too stiff, so I am still thinking a set of wheelie bar wheels on the back so it can be moved around easily

Maybe just an old set of roller skates under the rear wheels would help move the mower around Norm.

I don't think so Max, not going to be effective when wanting to pull the mower backwards when you are mowing whic is what the problem is that Paul was having. It is just the resistance that the gearbox has when moving it backwards. Not one of Victas finest achievements