OutdoorKing Repair Forum Forums Restoring, Customising and Modifying Reel-Type Mowers Scott Bonnar 45 Restoration - Crumpet

Hi CJ and all,

I'm sure that harsh impact would've been a major consideration and as you suggest no serviceable lubrication like the cutter reel bearings had access to.

It's just the very odd size of the outer race that's very frustrating when everything else is rather standard. The other thing I find rather strange and that is that the manufacture to order bearings that are now made available are exact replicas even down to the two different shields on each side. One would think that neoprene shields would be far superior than metal shields as far as entry of dust and foreign matter is concerned.

I'm going to take an original down to SKF and see what they can come up with as they are manufacturers and retailers, but one things for sure, with that odd sized outer race it's never going to be cheap.

I note that we still have OEM Scott Bonnar bearings here in our online store for $36.00 each, but then add $10 postage and that's $46 for just one bearing is a tad rich, mind you that's still slightly cheaper than any of the two eBay sellers are.

I'm interested to see what outcome CP comes up with.

Cheers,
BB.

This is what I do in regards the rear roller bearing, I do not believe there is a standard bearing available (metric bore, imperial outside diameter). I buy good quality sealed 6202 bearings with a 16mm bore (6202 are available in 15mm,16mm and 5/8" bores), I machine a steel sleeve with the correct od and lightly press/loctite it on to the bearing.

It then fits straight in to the standard pressed housings, the rear roller spins really nicely.

Hi Gino,

Firstly thank you for sharing your insights on how to get around this issue. I've rather quickly come to the same conclusion that there is no commercially made equivalent and as such some alternative must be reached.

Regardless of what is done it is still for most restorers an expensive exercise with no cheaper option at their finger tips.

I agree a 6202 bearing is an easily acquired bearing but the machining of a collar to space it out wouldn't be cheap to most people that firstly don't have the skills to machine up the collar and secondly have access to a lathe to do it.

So it seems most of the folk are at the mercy of these sellers that have them at such a high price.

Once again thanks for your input Gino and giving the more experienced operators an alternative option.

Cheers,
BB.

Thanks Bonnar Bloke
I contacted Anthony Innovations (Anthony Bearings) a few years ago regarding the rear roller bearings and the clutch thrust bearing. Both bearings were listed on their website (clutch bearing is a "castor/trolley wheel bearing" !), neither are stock items and I was told they were made to order with a minimum run of 500. I would imagine they may do smaller runs for regular clients.

I considered having some sleeves cnc machined and offering my modified bearing as a alternative but I don't believe it would be viable, I don't think the demand is that high !

Hi Gino,

I must admit that I've never had to change clutch thrust bearing as they can be easily cleaned out and pumped full of grease as they are a very low tolerance bearing and have plenty of inner race movement in them which they are meant to have due to the nature of the action they are subjected to.

As I suggested in the above post that there would be no affordable method to overcome the rip off we are being subjected to with the rear roller bearing. I just can't get my head around why they originally chose such an oddball size in the first instance. That bearing also is not a high tolerance unit with a rather cheap construction as it was never to be a high speed unit, rather a reliable low speed non serviceable unit.

Out of interest how much do you think it would cost for you to spit out about 10 collars ?

Cheers,
BB.

Hello Bonnar Bloke
If I can machine the bushes out 32mm nb pipe I would do ten for $120
posted. In the past I have turned them out of round bar, takes a long time on my lathe. They are quite time consuming as the bore has to be spot on for a nice fit on the bearing. I pay $9 for NSK bearings, you can buy ten Chinese bearings for $50 delivered on ebay (Australian seller). The Chinese bearings would probably last forever considering their application. If you are interested let me know and I will check out some pipe.If you want to see one that I have modified just let me know an easy way to post an image and I will give it a shot.

G'day Gino, and Mod BB

Many thanks for that problem solving!
I feel that is a competent engineering work-around to this problem...

Posting images is easy HERE.

I will leave it to Mod BB to comment further.
I do feel we will need to move the roller bearing part to a
new topic within SB Mower Frames. The information is too important!

On a roll.
--------------------
Jack

G'day folks,

I'd think it likely that most of the retailers selling this bearing [except the ODK Shop and Protea Mowers] would be sourcing it from GA Spares [their P/No is BEA1512]. Who would be the firm getting them made, and their price would pretty much set the price the retailers have to get for these.

What's the actual OD of the A1129017 bearing? SKF do make a couple of 35mm ID precision sleeves, FWIW.

The bearing OD is 1.503", the ID is 16mm, the width is 7/16". Good luck finding one of those . 6202 is slightly narrower(thickness of one piece of paper)at 11mm wide.

G'day Gino

Many thanks for helping members out on this, and the great image of
the different approaches - original and work-around.

Mod BB and GM Gadge have spent considerable time problem solving.
You have clearly spent a lot of time too!
[I like the collar approach]

I feel the ODK Store does offer a viable alternative [whilst stocks last].
It appears to be the cheapest on the market!

The Model 45 was released in 1968.
Mod BB has told me that the only sealed bearing used was probably the one
located in the Land Roll clutch sprocket - at that time.

A few years' later, sealed bearings were being used on the reel,
yet SB continued with the 'trolley bearing' for the rear roller.

I suspect SB continued with this design because it did a good job
[as a slow speed bearing], but also because any change would involve a
change to the bearing carrier [because it was a non-standard size].

A great post on an esoteric subject, but an important post for
down the track.

Thanks Gino!
----------------------
Jack

Thanks CyberJack
When I am in the mood I rebuild model 45s to sell. The only way I could make a few bucks and still do a good rebuild is by doing things like modifying bearings for the rear roller, I make my own catchers from scratch as pictured,front roller shaft I cut in half and weld it up with unworn sections on the outside. Good condition 5/8" grubscrew style clutch housings with a worn bore I machine to 3/4", if the big sprocket on the cutter sprocket is knackered I cut it off and replace it, I machine/grind the cylinders, repair worn clutch output shafts and clutch cones.After all this my hourly rate goes up to $7.50 !. I bought ten new B&S engines a few years ago for a good price, I have three left and after reading this I think I will retire when they're gone !

HI Gino,

Yes all the parts are getting way out of control and it gets to the point unless you're restoring for one's self its just not worth it. Just look at the price of a cutter sprocket and the transfer shaft sprocket which are regularly worn out along with the chains. Now the clutch halves are up to over $90 retail and that's just going to have more 45's going to scrap, thus when I was buying used machines I wouldn't pay over $50 for one as most of them were all suffering the same issues and big $$ had to be spent. Every now and again I'd fall across one that had a badly flogged chassis and a whole heap of new parts installed and those were the heaven machines where the chassis was off to the next world and the parts were great for replacements on far better prospects.

I'd love you to make me a 20 inch catcher but sadly the freight is what drives up the price, especially from WA.

Now looking at those two bearings laying there side by side I think that you'll find that the races both inner and outer on the original are stronger than most standard bearings and that would've been done purely for shock resistance with the rear rollers having to traverse up and over concrete edges during their lifespan.

How do you feel that sounds ?

Cheers,
BB.

G'day folks,

Just looked up some pipe specs [good ole Machinery's Handbook, as pipe used in Oz is almost exclusively made to US specs], and it looks like Schedule 80 32mm NB pipe would be the go here - 42.2mm OD, 32.5mm bore.

Another possibility would be carbon steel hollow bar - one of the standard sizes is 40mm OD x 25mm ID, another is 40mmx20mm.

Might be worth looking up your WA Bohler Uddeholm branches in Welshpool and Canning Vale for that - I mention them because they do cut-to-length, and it's quite surprising what you can find in their offcuts rack for cheap, over this side anyway.
That's because they deal exclusively in carbon, alloy and stainless steels, so longer offcuts don't just get chucked in a scrap bin, but are racked and marked with the steel grade.

Edit: This is the only likely 35mm ID sleeve I can find in the SKF listings, and I doubt it would be very machinable; probably need to be ground. http://www.skf.com/au/products/seal...dex.html?designation=IR%2035x40x17%20EGS

Hello Gadge and Bonnar Bloke
Thanks for the info on the pipe etc, local steel merchant will sell me a metre but the id od and wall thickness they told me didn't make sense,if needed I was going to check it out.

As far as determining the durabilty of my modified bearing compared to the original I am way out of my depth there. When I initially looked in to doing it I spoke to the bearing supplier about using the bearing, I described where it was being used and the weight of the mower. Its all a bit too much me for me but from memory the static load rating of a 6202 bearing was well over 300kg. I have had a bit of a read and bearings subject to severe shock may also use different grades of steel to a normal bearing, whether the SB roller operates under severe shock conditions is debateable, I guess some people would use the mower as a battering ram when mounting kerbs etc.
You would think that bearing I use would probably have a lower rating than a normal 6202 bearing as it loses 1mm somewhere. Total "thickness" of a 6202 (inner, outer, ball race) is 9.5mm. A 6002 bearing total "thickness" is 8.5mm, if I am reading the chart correctly its load rating is close to 300kg, it is also 2mm narrower than a 6202.
How does the quality of the original bearing regarding materials etc compare to an NSK bearing ?.

Personally I think the 6202 bearing works fine, maybe there is a mechanical engineer on the forum who could give an educated answer.

Gino

Hi Gino,

Lets put it this way,

If a 6202 wears out with whatever load it is subjected to it within 6 years then it can be replaced around 8 times for the cost of the so-called OEM rear roller bearing.

So in the end who's laughing, the reduction collar can be used over and over again and honestly the new modern well made bearings will outlast the battle-weary old ones that have done well over 30 years of service.

If you are to make a a small amount of collars and keep them on hand I'm sure we can wing some business your way as we get asked about this situation quite regularly and thus you can sell the collars on their own or as a package deal with the bearings. One way or the other it might end up putting some serious pressure on the two eBay guys to stop being so greedy and level out their pricing structure some what.

Competition is always good for the consumer.

Cheers,
BB.

No worries Gino.
Standard black/gal waterpipe is 'Schedule 40', and you wouldn't be able to be certain that the ID would clean up to size for this job.
32mm NB Schedule 80 is thicker wall, but same OD - that's how it works with pipe sizes [bassackwards though that may seem at first glance], so that the external threading diameter remains constant. That's why it's called 'nominal bore' sizing...

Simply stating the actual OD as the size, as is done for tubing, would really make much more sense, but I'd say it's just one of those anomalous historical legacies that still exist in the metal trading world.

Hello Bonnar Bloke and Gadge
You live and learn Gadge, so the bore of 32nb pipe can actually be as big as 36mm, might see if I can put some money in a nominal bank account. I think a big advantage with using a 6202 bearing is it is properly sealed, apart from the mower I used to own (it lived a sheltered life) I have never seen an original bearing that wasn't full of crap and flogged out.
Smart move by Anthony Bearings if they made bearings in sizes not available any where else in the universe.
Gino

Hi Guys,

Personally I feel that SB would've sourced that bearing when it was probably far more commonly used in something else of high volume, eg. Shopping trolleys of their day and thus they got it at a cheap price. This is a low speed, impact durable bearing for that purpose. They were then probably dropped as the trolley design changed and then solely manufactured for SB alone and subsequently Rover.

I think the sealed 6202 bearing would do the job perfectly if not better being sealed with the adaptor collar fitted.

Cheers,
BB.

Hi all,
My measurements on the bearings come up as 1-1/2" od 5/8" id 7/16" width.
Also have searched tirelessly on every catalogue that I can find - no company that has made bearings of this size is on the internet. I think Anthony bearings were the only ones to ever make an inch and a half bearing ever.
I have given my Anthony bearing Melbourne to two major bearing suppliers in Canberra, the last guy said that Anthony bearings has just been sold and told me he'd try and find out where stock is going to.

So I'd b in the market for a couple of sleeves if ever they were available!! Fx

Cheers grame

Hi all,
Count me in for a set if it goes ahead!
Thanks
Glenn