OutdoorKing Repair Forum Forums Repairs and Maintenance Questions On Ride On Mowers Questions on Rover Ride On Mower Rover Rancher 2 - 5 Speed Gearbox Problem

Hi Everyone,

I stumbled across this site while trying to find info on my old Rover and have found it most helpful. I have read all the threads relating to my Rancher 2 (and all Rover threads) hoping that my problem might have been covered before, but could not find anything. I did come across a post by a member called Alwood asking how to tighten the top belt on a Rancher 2 and while members discussed the types of belts he should use to replace the ones he had taken off no one answered his question, so I thought I would help anyone with the same issue by answering it here because Alwood's thread is now closed.

The top belt can be tightened by sliding the engine forward, you need to undo 2 bolts either side of the engine they are located on the chassis rail, the at the front of the engine again at the chassis rail there is a threaded screw by turning this screw it moves the engine forward, because the engine is mounted on its own sub-chassis that slides within the main chassis, once the belt it tight you need to tighten the 4 bolts back up.

The problem that I have is my mower will not move, I select gear but it will not move, I put it in gear with the engine turned off and it will not move and will only free wheel when in neutral, so the gears are being selected. I have taken the top cover off the gearbox and taken the gears out and the teeth and gain look in good order. So then I looked under the gearbox and the bottom pulley (the following numbers will be from the parts list that I downloaded from this site) item # 31 A07556 Pulley-X (11055) it tight up against the underside of the gearbox mounting plate stopping it from rotating. I have undone the 2 bolts which hold the pully in place from the parts list they are item # 53 A02082 (Use X02082K and managed to move the pulley down away from the gearbox mounting plate and then tightened them back up again, this did allow the wheels to move when I started her up again and selected gear, but the pulley moved back up tight against the gearbox mounting plate again.

So looking at the gearbox parts list the following parts seem to be in the location of where the bottom pulley if mounted.

Item # 30 X780086 Bearing Needle
Item # 45 (no parts list description)
Item # 18 X776135 Shaft Input
Item # 29 X780072 Race Thrust
Item # 32 X792035 Ring Retaining

My question is will the failure of any of these parts cause the bottom pulley to press up tight against the gearbox mounting plate?

Today I am going to try and remove the bottom pulley and see if I can see anything that might be broken above it and I am going to look at drilling holes in the side of the Shaft Input part where the 2 pulley bolts tighten against it, I am hoping these holes will help locate the bolts and stop the pulley from moving up tight against the gearbox mounting plate.

I am looking for any advice, because finding parts for this old gearbox might be hard if any of the above are faulty, the Shaft Input must be still in one piece because the wheels did move when I adjusted the pulley, so I am hoping my idea of trying to stop the pulley from moving upwards will work.

I managed to remove the bottom pulley and see that it has a spline and one of the 2 positioning bolts is located in the spline grove, so that along with the problems I would have in not being able to refix the circlip means my first idea is not practical. The shaft input (what the parts list calls it) as some play in it (from age) but still seems fit for purpose. I have noticed the gearbox is fixed to the plate using shims which raises the gearbox by about 12mm, so my next idea is to reduce the height of these shims which will make the bottom of the gearbox "shaft input" protrude further below the underside of the gearbox fixing plate. This will hopefully give my bottom pulley the clearance it needs so than it can spin freely and allow the drive to work.

Is your gearbox the old 3 speed H pattern or the later 5 speed? Post up some pictures if you can. There should not be any spacers between the gearbox and the mounting plate, with the pulley off there should be a circlip on the shaft against the bottom bearing and the shaft should poke through the pulley and have a circlip on it as well

Hi Nath,

Yes your right there was no spaces it was part of the casting with a line in the casting which I thought was a shim. It is the 5 speed, I marked the casting with a gauge and took 3mm of the part of the casting that I thought was a shim (it is threaded all the way up) and mounted the gearbox again. It worked really well with the pulley no longer catching the underside of the gearbox mounting plate. I started cutting the grass and it was working much better than before, but then it stopped again.

You are right about the circlips either side of the pulley and there is also a small washer on the side of the shaft when you take the pulley off, which must be a small spacer.

I think the pulley is catching again because it is very hot, so there must be a problem further up the shaft, but not sure how the pulley is moving upwards with that circlip on the shaft above the pulley so the all shaft must be moving upwards, which must mean some part is worn out within the gearbox.

Sorry I do not have any pics (I took some but cannot find where they are on my phone) the parts diagram shows what I am talking about quite well. PDF on this page 3rd up from the bottom https://www.outdoorking-forum.com.au/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=7306#Post7306

Hmm, unfortunatley i am not as familiar with the 5 speeds as i am with the 3 speeds, I have one but I haven't opened it up, also check that your belt is on correct and all the keepers are in the right spot.

Failing all else open up the box and pull the input shaft out and check for wear or scoring.

Also parts for these boxes should be still be available as they were made by peerless who I think are owned by briggs and stratton.

OK taken the input shaft out of the gearbox and the needle bearings have disintegrated to such and extent that there are no longer any needles just the housing which is bent and twisted causing ware to the shaft and aluminium casting.

Still trying to get one of the needle housings out of the casting, not sure I can salvage the casting, there seems to be room for 3 needle bearings not just the 2 shown on the parts list, so it might be the case that these are not the original needle bearing and at some point someone replaced them with two that were not as long.

Nath you are right they still do parts for the 700 series and there is a company that makes an aftermarket replacement, it seems the 700 series is the gearbox of choice for people building go karts in the USA. Here is a link to video about the 700 series

So will see if I can repair mine, is there anywhere in Australia that sells imperial size needle bearings or will I have to get them from the USA?

Hello datum1m and nath

Welcome to the ODK forums.
I'm no expert on these boxes but this post appears to be a good one for
diagnosis. So, the pulley was hot because of the bearing failures.
It may be - probably - that the bearings failed because the belt tension
was too great on the input pulley over a period of time.

To answer your question, a bearing supplier should stock imperial sizes.
Normally, the bearing casing will have an identifier number.
Given that the parts lists only shows 2 bearings, that would be correct (not three)
It is normal practice to separate them - probably for heat dissipation.

Thanks to nath for his knowledge here: Much appreciated.

Please let us know how you go.
--------------------------------------
JACK

Hi Cyberjack,

Thank for your input, not sure how the bearings failed because the input shaft pulley works by applying pressure to the acceleration pedal, without pressure applied it should free spin making this act like natural allowing gear changes.

I have found this listing on ebay for a needle bearing http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Peerless...-Y-810-/251381474407?hash=item3a8780e467 , the picture looks like the bearing is longer than it is wide and the bearing housing that I have managed to remove is 22mm wide by 14mm long which is why I said I could fit 3 of these to my input shaft. I will ask the ebay seller how long the needle bearing is they have for sale.

The same ebay seller as this input shaft for sale, http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Tecumseh-Peerless-Shaft-776098-/251761795645?hash=item3a9e2c223d the shaft as an extra circlip grove near the spline slot end of the shaft this might be because it is a universal shaft allowing for different casting lengths. It may also work with my gearbox which is a model 715A, I have found a complete 715A gearbox for sale on the UK ebay http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Peerless...-Mower-/311430681252?hash=item4882b712a4 for 75 pounds but its condition does not look too good.

I am hoping the needle bearing used within my gearbox were the wrong size because they have badly scored the aluminium casting (put a grove in it the length of the needle bearing) and longer bearings would sit in a position where the casting is not damaged hopefully bridging the scored part of the casting. If this does not work I would need to replace the bottom part of the gearbox casting and then I might be better off buying a replacement gearbox.

Hello datum1m

Okay ... let us know how you go.
Watch the freight costs when ordering overseas.
I still believe that local procurement may be the go.

Also note:-
http://www.heavycut.com.au/SpecialOffers.htm

Hope it works out.
--------------------------
JACK

Hi CyberJack

The peerless 5 speed gearbox was a nice find, I rang him up but is idea of cheap was $240, I can buy a complete Rancher 2 for that sort of money and have lots of spare parts.