In conversation with one of our moderators Joe Carroll yesterday, he posed an interesting question on the 14" Scott Bonnar Model 45, that I did not know the answer to. The question was, "Was a twin-rail, Series 2, 14" Scotty 45 ever produced or were they all solid engine deck?"
After some research today, I have found that they were listed in the 1974-75 Product Range, (solid deck) but by the 1978 Product Range they had been discontinued.
Here's the 1978 Brochure...have a look at the 450 page...you will see the 17" and the 20" only. Vale the baby Scotty!
Last edited by CyberJack; 29/10/1511:27 AM. Reason: Topic heading.
Please do not PM me asking for support. Please post your questions in the appropriate forums, as the replies it may receive may help all members, not just the individual member. Kindest Regards, Darryl
I can answer this question for you easily gentlemen. I have two 14" twin rail 45's. They're nothing special but I can grab some pics if you'd like proof
I knew you would know the answer Michael, and yes, pics would be great if you please could post some....
The next thing we need to know is the date of manufacture of your Briggs engines to see if they are later than 1978, as the brochure do not show them even on the front cover pics...See HERE Thanks mate,
Please do not PM me asking for support. Please post your questions in the appropriate forums, as the replies it may receive may help all members, not just the individual member. Kindest Regards, Darryl
Who would know when my newly purchased 14" was manufactured, with the replacement engine there is really no hope.
Thats not to worry though, soon it will be a bare frame and a good stack of spares in a tub, as I intend on fitting the engine to my later model twin rail 17"
My favourite of all the 45's is the solid deck 14".
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The next thing we need to know is the date of manufacture of your Briggs engines to see if they are later than 1978
30th August 1975 on the Briggs, the other is Kirby powered I'm afraid. I'll grab some pics tomorrow. Coincidentally I just did a similar thing to Joe and stripped the Kirby powered mower on Monday (It's pretty trashed and has badly cracked rails).
Model for the Briggs twin rail 14" - 450511 Model for the Kirby twin rail 14" - 450407
Hi Michael, I would ask you please to post some photos of the twin rail 14" machine, that would be good for the archives. I think that my further research is correct, and that is, late 1975, early 1976 heralded the demise of the this favourite little machine. This also was the time that the Scott Bonnar company introduced the controversial SB 430 and 590 Diplomat rear catcher models to much pomp and ceremony, but did not live up to their earlier designs. Sid Bowditch must have turned in his grave.....
Please do not PM me asking for support. Please post your questions in the appropriate forums, as the replies it may receive may help all members, not just the individual member. Kindest Regards, Darryl
Hi Darryl, here is a pic of the Kirby 14" taken a while back before it was stripped.
I'll drag the Briggs powered machine out tomorrow and grab a pic. I agree that the 14" must have disappeared during the mid 70's. It's easy to pick a later Briggs as they changed logo and decals on the engines by 79. I've never seen a 14" with the later looking engine.
Many, many thanks Michael, this is great for the archives... that is the first twin rail 14" machine I have seen.
Please do not PM me asking for support. Please post your questions in the appropriate forums, as the replies it may receive may help all members, not just the individual member. Kindest Regards, Darryl
Hi Joe, And on finally getting the old girl home. I know you have got a good home for the G100 Honda, and I can't wait to see that!
Best wishes for the restore on the Honda, a good polish of the cowling and a re-paint of the tank..a little bit of elbow grease on the cast alloy...she'll look like a bought one Joe... Well done, mate!
Please do not PM me asking for support. Please post your questions in the appropriate forums, as the replies it may receive may help all members, not just the individual member. Kindest Regards, Darryl
Your inclusion of the pic of your 14" twin rail Model 45, with a Kirby engine, has started me on some more research this morning. What I have found is interesting.
Your 14" model number 450407 is mentioned in the 1974-1975 Model Range, with the 17" model number 450423 and the 20" model number 450431 all sporting Kirby-Tecumseh (Lauson) engines. See here...the illustration seems to indicate a solid deck 20" machine with the ying/yang catcher decal.
From this information, I think with some confidence, considering the manufacturing date of your Briggs engine on your twin rail 14" machine being 30th August 1975, that the change-over from solid engine deck to twin rail was very late 1975. That is allowing 3 months for delivery of the Briggs, from the USA.
We have been trying to nail down this time frame for many years and your machine may have solved the puzzle.
Please do not PM me asking for support. Please post your questions in the appropriate forums, as the replies it may receive may help all members, not just the individual member. Kindest Regards, Darryl
An interesting question mate, so I have done some research. Scott Bonnar as we now know were producing just the 17" and 20" in 1978 and continued to manufacture both models at the Thebarton factory in South Australia until 1983 when the whole operation transferred to Brisbane and was named Rover-Scott Bonnar.
Both models were manufactured there until some point in time when the Scott Bonnar name was dropped, the paint scheme changed to red, cutter clutch guards were fitted and was named the "Rover Model 45 Reel Mower".
The 17" machine (model number 45048) and the 20" machine (model number 45148) soldiered on until the closure of Rover Mowers (Australia) and the eventual take-over by MTD, some years ago, as far as I know. Perhaps another member can throw some more light on the subject.
I can tell you that the only Scott Bonnar mower being manufactured in Australia right now is the 30" Queen electric bowling greens machine.
Please do not PM me asking for support. Please post your questions in the appropriate forums, as the replies it may receive may help all members, not just the individual member. Kindest Regards, Darryl
Hi Deejay This post started on the 14"I not trying hijack the post it is just I have a some thing that shows the 17"(my error saying 20") twin rail was being made in 1984 and the Scott Bonnar name was still being used. The South Australia address is still listed and the colour as yet had not changed Ian Twin rail A lot of the material was dated
And thanks for posting that information as it proves my point... All 17" and 20" Model 45's post 1978 were twin rail machines.
It is fact that the Scott Bonnar Thebarton manufacturing plant in Sth Australia closed its doors for the last time in 1983. The manufacturing operation was then transferred to the Rover Mowers Australia factory in Brisbane. They continued to make the 17" and the 20" machines in the same colour hammertone scheme and pentagon decals. I am not exactly sure of the date the name changed to Rover-Scott Bonnar, but it was in the early 80's and as your brochure shows definitely by 1984.
The Rover-Scott Bonnar address in your brochure shows Beverley, this was the authorised SB dealers address, not a manufacturing plant.
You'll also notice that the machine featured in your brochure is a 20" machine not a 17"..... as evidenced by the 6 segments in the cylinder reel (the 17" has 5) and the length of the cutter clutch engine shaft.
You will also notice in the last pic of the rear of the machine, that an ID anodised plate stating Rover-Scott Bonnar, usually found on the rear rail adjacent to the clutch-fork is missing, indicating that this may have been a transitional machine. All good stuff!
Please do not PM me asking for support. Please post your questions in the appropriate forums, as the replies it may receive may help all members, not just the individual member. Kindest Regards, Darryl
just picked up this bargin & trying to figure yr & model , cant locate engine number , she is briggs & stratton 127 cc 3hp only plate i see is model numnber 45 06209, 14 inch , solid deck , cheers darryl
Last edited by grumpy; 12/08/1408:35 PM. Reason: Correct markup window selection
The engine's cooling air cowl, which has the Model, Type and Code stamped on it, is missing in that picture. The Code tells us the date of manufacture of the engine.
Do not operate the engine without the cowl - it will overheat, and the air-vane governor will not work properly. There may be other essential items missing too - in particular, the plastic thrust bearing between the clutch arm and the clutch. The machine needs to be completed before it will be usable.
Hi Darryl, and a warm welcome to the forum. It's always nice to welcome another Scott Bonnar model 45 owner, as we all like to learn new things and tinker here.
Your machine is a 14", manufactured at the Thebarton factory in Sth Aust, sometime between 1968 and early 1976, as it has a solid deck. It is a shame that the air cooling cowl is missing; as grumpy has said, that would have given us the date of manufacture of the Briggs, which would give us the approximate date of manufacture of your machine. Once again Darryl, to OutdoorKing.
Please do not PM me asking for support. Please post your questions in the appropriate forums, as the replies it may receive may help all members, not just the individual member. Kindest Regards, Darryl
hi thanks for reply , air cowl is not missing it off so i can replace cord, machine had been su=itting for 10 + years, changed oil, plug, fresh fuel & away it went , will check it when home & get some numbers thanks again darryl
No probs Darryl, can you please post the complete string of numbers (ie, Model, Type and Code) here... Thanks mate,
Please do not PM me asking for support. Please post your questions in the appropriate forums, as the replies it may receive may help all members, not just the individual member. Kindest Regards, Darryl
hi deejay & grumpy numbers are 80232 0917 01 80090603 got it up & running fine but throttle to gov plate springs fouls on air cowl , any chance you have link to photo showing correct positioning
Hi Darryl, It appears that there has been an engine change at some stage, because the the standard Briggs engines used at the time of manufacture of the solid deck 14" Scotties (1968 to late 1975) was the 2HP 60102 and the 3HP Briggs used on the 17" machines was the 80102. Your model Briggs is the 80232 and was manufactured in the Rolla Missouri plant in the USA on the 6th September 1980, by which time the 14" Scotties had been discontinued. I am sure grumpy will help you with the governor set-up.
Please do not PM me asking for support. Please post your questions in the appropriate forums, as the replies it may receive may help all members, not just the individual member. Kindest Regards, Darryl
Please post some pictures of the set-up Darryl, and I'll try to figure out which system it is. If it fouls on the cowl, it sounds as if it has been cobbled somehow.
Hi again Darryl, The plastic thrust washer is the black plastic piece with the oiling hole in it, that you can see in this pic, between the clutch fork and the clutch cone...
Please do not PM me asking for support. Please post your questions in the appropriate forums, as the replies it may receive may help all members, not just the individual member. Kindest Regards, Darryl
Hi Darryl, Thanks for posting that pic, I have noticed something I have not noticed before on the early solid deck Series 1 Scotties and that is an engine clutch thrust washer (Illustration No. 135 and Part No. 331803 in the SB 45 Parts Lists) placed between the brass thrust pad and the clutch cone.
It was obviously deleted when the plastic thrust pad was introduced on the Series 2 machines.
Please do not PM me asking for support. Please post your questions in the appropriate forums, as the replies it may receive may help all members, not just the individual member. Kindest Regards, Darryl
Just looking at that brochure, a couple of posts up and was rather interested in the width of the machine. The front shot clearly shows it's a 20 inch machine due to the cylinder and how inboard the engine is mounted but the rear shots show that it's a 17 depicted as the engine is basically flush with the RHS side plate.
Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, also you forgot to mention the ugly duckling of them all, the Kermit Green Rover that came in before the Red Rover, while the Red came in two Mk 's a one and two. The two having the rearward facing clutch lever and plastic cover something the Red Mk I didn't have.
Cheers, BB
I live a 24 Hour lifestyle, but every now and again I seem to fall asleep, well at least that's what my wife tells me.
Hi BB, Ooops mate, I think you may have replied to the wrong thread.
Please do not PM me asking for support. Please post your questions in the appropriate forums, as the replies it may receive may help all members, not just the individual member. Kindest Regards, Darryl
I've realised why you've thought that this post is on the incorrect thread and that is because it actually refers back to the page 1 posting of this thread where there is a SB brochure posted up. My mistake was that I didn't realise that I posted it on page 2.
DOH !!!!
Cheers, BB
Last edited by bonnar_bloke; 10/11/1408:38 PM.
I live a 24 Hour lifestyle, but every now and again I seem to fall asleep, well at least that's what my wife tells me.
Sorry to resurrect an old thread but I've been searching for info on the later SB Rover Brisbane made models and manufacture periods and we don't seem to have that much info...or I can't find it
It seems the Rover Brisbane factory took over from late 1983, and at least for a period kept the same colour scheme as evidenced by the 1984 brochure in this thread. As BB mentions they then went to the Kermit Green still with SB name for some time. Then eventually ditched it all and went Rover Model 45 with the red. Any ideas when all this occurred? When was the last 45 manufactured in australia?
Not sure if it helps but I just purchased a Kermit SB with original receipts dated 1992. so start and end dates of the kermit are some time either side of that I guess...
That's a decent question there. Yes, it would appear that the SA Thebarton factory was closed by the end of the 1982-83 Financial Year, moving all production to Fison Avenue, Brisbane, the home of Rover Mowers. This article is from SMH30/11/1983.
That is fantastic information - that you have a 'Kermit 45' with receipt dated to 1992!
It appears to be an unanswered question when the Kermits were introduced. We have a 1984 brochure still advertising the older SB hammertome scheme.
My take on this is that the Kermit colour was introduced in about the mid-1980s. I speculate that the Rover takeover of SB in 1980 enabled Rover to stockpile sufficient quantities of Adelaide machines for a period after the SA closure of mid-1983.
The Green colour was introduced and done, I believe, by the powder-coat process. Rover had introduced this new plant at their Brisbane factory in about 1980. I speculate that that process cannot produce the hammertone finish...? ... Meaning that Rover stuck with a green colour to differentiate SB from Rover's own colour scheme (and still use the SB name).
At some point (we now know this was after 1992) Rover changed the scheme in favour of full-integration with the Rover branding. The machine became a Rover 45.
I guess the last 45 was manufactured close to the closure of the Brisbane factory on the 1st of April, 2007. The Rover Parts List I have shows revisions right up to the end of 2005, suggesting that the last 45s were made close to the Brisbane closure. The end of two AUS icons was now assured.
The rest is history. ------------------------------ Jack
Wow, thanks Jack. There is a lot of interesting info there. That article pretty much highlights that the drought was a significant contributor to the closure of the Adelaide SB plant. Rover must have been very happy with the purchase when the drought broke that year.
I have not paid close attention to the coating on the Kermit. It did strike me as painted rather than powdercoated, but I will have a closer look and advise.
I was a young teenager in Brisbane back then and my main source of income was mowing lawns, including my Grandmothers and my Parents Blue Couch lawns with SB45's. Both had extensive automatic watering systems and water was plentiful thanks to a much smaller population (the great victorian migration had only just started ) and a newly completed Wyvenhoe D@m...oh the memories
I am out of the country at the moment but will post the receipt for the record when I get back on the weekend.
I've had another look at the Kermit coating and it may well be powder coated...unfortunately I am no expert, but it does look thicker than I would expect a paint to be.
Thank you for that important document. Big Ask: would it be possible to get a close-up of the manufacturer's plate? I ask that to confirm the model number.
You have added valuable information here. Now, we need to establish when the change in colour occurred.
Facts: - 45s still branded as SB in 1984 (brochure). - 45s as Kermits introduced after that (still branded as SBs) - 45s as Kermits still available in late 1992 (invoice) - 45s as Orange Rover45s (SB name dropped) introduced at some time after 1992 - 45s as Rover 45s still available this century, probably ceasing with factory closure in early 2007.
All very interesting. -------------------------- Jack
I've been watching this thread with much interest.
This model 45 is definitely Powder Coated. Just look at those welds and how bulbous they look, that's the effect powder coating gives as it's a good filler material opposed to paint, also the powder coating line was in full swing by the 1990's.
I have started my timeline spread sheet on documenting all the changes made on the model 45 since it's inception way back in 1968.
Just an interesting point on this thread which shows the brochure with a date of 8/84, the photos still show images of the 20 inch Model 45 due to the wider reel but the blurb on the brochure only mentions the 17 inch machine as it's cylinder mower offering and in it's dot points it refers to 5 cross over points in the reel while the 20 inch reel pictured has 6, but in saying that the 17 inch model 45 offering from SB only ever had the 5.
I feel that the photos were either older stock shots on hand or they still had a 20 inch machine on hand to use as a photographic model.
My opinion is that the 20 inch was well and truly finished by Aug/84 with production of it ceasing here in Adelaide at the time of the Holland Street Plant closing down and that they had simply made a mistake on the brochure with the photos used and felt no one would really know anyway.
Like the disclaimer always says, "Photo's are for illustrative purposes only" and "we reserve the right to change specifications without notice"
BTW Jack when you refer to the "Orange" colour scheme, don't you mean "Rover Red" ?
Cheers, BB
I live a 24 Hour lifestyle, but every now and again I seem to fall asleep, well at least that's what my wife tells me.
BTW Jack when you refer to the "Orange" colour scheme, don't you mean Red ?
Hello Mod BB,
Yes, it was my cunning plan: I do mean red. When I say 'cunning', I mean 'colour blind'. I guess, more red than orange.
I count 4 spiders / collars/ crosses for the 14 inch reel I count 5 spiders / collars/ crosses for the 17 inch reel I count 6 spiders / collars/ crosses for the 20 inch reel
Many MD's are specialists at preparing a company for sale. They are engaged by boards specifically to do what is necessary to get the best possible price. The changes are rarely good for long term health of the company (or its staff) so such MD's are not usually kept past the sale.
In my experience once a sale is effected the buyer quickly finds out the layers of smoke and mirrors employed....if the MD is smart he has already exited stage left by that time....
Spotted a mower for sale recently that the chap couldn't get going, he was unsure of the make of the mower, so I did a deal over the phone seeing that it had a late model Chonda on it so it would be an easy fix. Got the mower home and could just make out it was an S/B on the plate and after a bit of research I think it is a 14'' Twin rail. Cosmetically a bit average but solid and looks like its all there except original catcher and engine. Was there a couple of different engine installed on this model or is there 1 specific engine, and if so which would it be ? The little unit Fly's with the 4hp on it, anything above quarter throttle has you in a canter behind it ! I love the split roller on it....... like it is hard to turn being 14'' The plate numbers are 45 41897 45 0407 Cheers wce
Might be a bit hard to find that motor now ? but will keep an eye out. Surprisingly the mower sits flat with the 4 hp on it and cut a nice strip in the lawn when I gave it a test run. The body of the mower without the engine on is very heavy. Quality build will do that I guess.
H4-4A's are plentiful and not hard to find at all. If you were in Adelaide I could probably sling you a couple as they are pretty well junkers now with most people replacing them with newer much smoother running power plants than keeping unbalanced rail destroying monsters as they are seen as these days.
Cheers, BB.
I live a 24 Hour lifestyle, but every now and again I seem to fall asleep, well at least that's what my wife tells me.
I have been recently acquired my first SB45 twin rail. I got curious after reading this thread and took some pics of the old girl. I was wondering age of machine and engine age as well. it runs well, cuts ok but could do with a reel grind I'd say.
On the Tecumseh motor it has a label that lists D.O.M = Date of manufacture ,the first number here is the year but doesn't list the decade, so looks about 1985 or 1995 , then the 226 is the 226th day = around August 14
Scott bonnar 45 machines went into production in 1968 and followed through to 1980 where it was purchased by Rover and was completely lost to rover by 1983
The H30 on the engine ID is Horizontal shaft 3 Hp and also has the 3 Hp sticker on the starter .
Tecumseh introduced its line of black four-stroke engines in the mid-1980s. The black engines were designed to provide a more modern aesthetic and improve performance and durability. This development was part of an overall trend in the industry towards four-stroke engines, which were becoming increasingly popular due to their efficiency and lower emissions compared to two-stroke engines.
Isn't it frustrating that the manufacturers don't put all the info on when stamping plates.
Scott Bonnar like most manufacturers only do what's necessary ,the number 36,698 they'd have records that would tell them the date of production from that number but when Scott Bonnar got taken over by Rover I would assume by now the records are long gone.
Yes it's a pity they didn't stamp the year on the mower, if you had the original motor you can get the date from that.