OutdoorKing Repair Forum Forums Collectors Corner Identification of Particular Machines Victa Model 4 Automatic Specifications

Unkie, just going back through the thread and the point you made as to the coweling stickers, you may have missed the part (because I posted too many and the wrighting got seperated from the Pics), is my comment stating that this mower seems to have the wrong engine on it as it is a late run No- AC64743 and it has the wrong cowel on it and the tank strap rubber & wrong fuel tap also, so you can cancell out my example of haveing a cowel sticker. hope I explained that properly for you.

Sorry for the radio silence fellas - I'm out of town so posting on the run.

Regarding the Powerhouse example, I agree entirely with the "bitsa" assessment - it just seems far too mixed up to offer anything tangible to the record....though here are a couple of observations:

* Painted axle housings indicating an early production
* Still has front axle housing tag that (just informed) tells the purchaser how to adjust the height.
* Looks also to have come straight off the production line

My interpretation is that it probably did come from the Victa factory, as demonstrated by the axle tag, and was probably intended as a display model made from left over parts - however inaccurate. As Blue said, it offers little to our collective knowledge, but is interesting none the less. Lets leave it covered in dust - as it belongs

Blue, fantastic post on the starter knob/assembly. We could do well to have detailed images of component parts such as yours, to better articulates the variations. Those images off the other thread of the starter housing variations would be great on this thread!

Earlier, we touched on what the correct choke is for the Auto - case closed?:

Smiley face choke it is - at least on the early models - Blue was right again!This Diagram from the User Manual also confirms the correct fuel tap style, so two birds with one stone on this one.



One thing I've noticed is a variation in the "big nuts" on the handlebar. There appears to be three types, the last of which can be seen on many Specials:

Type 1:




Type 2:

Another fantastic post Unkie...So Happy you could finally confirm the tap and Choke assy once and for all. The existance of a Black print version seems to be a bit of a Myth...So yeah case closed:)

Fully Agreed on the Bolts/nuts Unkie...The Short Hex(Common) and Tall Hex to suit the Spanner clips are actually Bolts. And then the Dome Style,(As per your first 3 diagrams) I see far less of these,with the short plain hex Bolt as you say,the most common for the Special. These are the main tension/tightening bolts for the handle bars,and the ones that generally strip the alloy threads on the rear handle bar brackets. I always Helicoil these on restos:) I should have all 3 types,so ill take a pic and get them up also

As for the starters. Yeah the 3 shown in detail would be good as it will cover All The Auto and Specials Produced. Their are also 3 maybe 4 Rope pull start variants as well. With very minor Differences that can be covered in the Special thread when started.
These are mainly quality differences and maker marks. Small ESS print,Prominant 3" casting,rough 3" casting and the Victa Embossed pully.

Great diagram from the manual on the model 4 to Unkie!

Well been researching the Toe ring, Basicly there are
1: Rotomo 2 2a early 4 bolt on clamps (sorry no photo's, going on Blue's knowledge there)
2: Romoto 3 standard & Mod 4 special, Mod 5 ser 1, Clip on with 4 spring hoop clips F, R, L & R.
3: Romoto 3 standard & Mod 5 ser 1 & 3 - 1 and/or 2 front locating tags and 2 bolt on rear/side clamps.
4: Model 4 Automatic bolt on side skirts.

Firstly the information above is just what I have found in Victa manuals and observation of them, I really do not think we should put any faith in the diagrams in these manuals or treat them as being acurate as you will see.
Version 1- (handball to Blue) thats an easy one.
Version 2- information from this manual.

the fitting instructions.


Now the fun part, Romoto 3 standard


Model 4 Special with no badge, no recoil starter & bent spanner to suit the ring.


Model 5 ser 1 with series 2 axel housings.

of coarse the Model 4 Automatic bolt on side skirts come befor that and after the Romoto 2/2a ring.

will sign off now and so not too many pics and be back to finish the last version.

Well the bolt on version comes from this manual.

Fitting instructions.

Romoto 3 Standard.

Model 5 ser 3 Special with axel extensions on base and axel housings

Model 5 ser 3 with axel extensions on the base but with ser 2 axel housings.

Now if that hasn't confused you another pic for you to study.


So afer all that I dont know what conclusions could be made if any apart from the fact the clip on toe ring came before the bolt on, so,
1st- Romoto 2/2a
2nd- Model 4
3rd clip on.
4th bolt on.
still an interesting and possability althouh slim Model 4 Special with no badge, recoil starter

Why are you doubting yourself Jonesy? This is some conscise and acurate infromation.
Your Images clearly show all the variants as we discussed in a prior posts.
The main point is it lists ALL the variations and what models they predominantly belonged to

Additional attention can be placed on the model 3 ring style,as on many model 3 Bases there are 3 holes in the exact postions the 3 hoops sit. Ill post an image of what I mean,as maybee they are the locators for the hoops.:)

I will post an Image of the Early style and this will complete the the known Varaints.
I think its safe to assume as you said,
1:Roto 2 2a 4 Bolt on clamps.
2:The ring style for the model 3 appears the earlier
3:The 1 and 2 tabs with bolt on clamps for later Utilities and Specials,
4:And the Model 4 Auto.
Some Rings may have also been interchangeable on a few models,just being of slightly different design,but still carried over.

I think this is pretty close to accurate and a well presented and Informed post! Any other variants can be added any time in the future...Great job Jonesy..

There is also the difference in the bolt on toe rings that exist.
the Model 5 series 1 toe ring as below has 8 locating tabs (that stick up) around it.


And the later one for the utilities, it has 6 locating tabs around it (both have 2 front larger tabs that clip over the base), as below.



Blue I'm not doubting myself, I am doubting the acuracy of the sketches in the Victa manuals, just like the Model 5 ser 3 with axel extensions on the base, this is just incorrect.
I also understand what you mean about the indentations in the base of the Model 3 for the clip on base and some pics would be great.

Also I dont know if you missed it or not but the "ring" or clip on style was not just the Model 3 but also the Model 4 Special, (which makes it Special)

My appoligies, the utility of vccomm above does in fact have the 8 tab toe ring on it, but there is also a 6 tab ring that I need to find a good photo of, it has two tabs at the center of the base at the sides (both forward of the bolt on tab) and two at the rear.

No I got You Jonesy. The model 3 and Model 4( NON AUTO) would be the same as they Intersected and ran side by side,So it makes perfect sense.
Yep that is right they have 8 locating tabs. The first example has 8 as well with 4 Mount Brackets. (Next Post)

And yes I often doubt the diagrams,which I have brought up with Unkie on a few occasions. Look at all your first diagrams. The model 3 STD is running the 2a pulley,which is accurate for early model 3s. BUT then the Specials also have the same pulley in their diagram. The Auto and Specials did not recieve this Pulley. Its not really a misprint as such,Just reusing OLD artwork. Very common for Victa Images. Hence the Confusion.

These all look on the money Jonesy from the Variants ive seen. Its good to finally see which ring went with which Model.
Youve done well to distinguish them correctly.

This should be the First style for Rotomo 2. 4 Clamps,1/4 nuts/bolts. I only have one other and its also on a late Rotomo plastic wheel Model. Its very rough in finish and the use of the four clamps would be quite damaging to the paintwork and more tedious to fit compared to the other variants.

Ive never seen a digaram for this one,or reference to it in the Rotomo Manual. So it is still open to speculation. But ive seen a couple on Rotomo mower examples over the years.
So if anyone else can confirm 100% with Sample or Image To its correct/Alternate Model Fittment,please let us know

In the image you will see I have cut it in two,this was purely for repair purposes,as it had a large twist and needed to be relaxed in order to realign it. So it is Definately one piece originally.

OK found the 6 tab bolt on toe ring.



same as the others with two lage taggs on the front but only has 6 locating tangs, need more info as to were this one sits in the time line, here it is fitted to a Model 5 but if anyone can confirm they have one the same and what mower it is fitted to would be great, thanks for the pic Blue as I have had nothing to do with the Romoto I have not seen one like that, the other point that would be good to clear up while we are sorting these is which ones have "TOP FRONT" pressed into them, so feedback would be good from anyone, of course the Model 4 won't have.

The one in my image has "top front" just hard to read in this Image,but its fairly clear. Bottom of the image,down low and direct centre:) Sorry the pic is crappy.

Just curious,youve circled 6 locating tangs. Why would the carby side in particular not have any? I get the front might have the larger tags,same as the model 5 versions but why would the mower in this Image only have 6 with one side missing 2? Seems odd.
You would think it would be the front 2 that would be omitted due to it having the large tags?:) Ive only ever seen the 8,but that means nothing. Anyways it is what it is

yep 2 large on the front circled, only 4 tabs circled but there are two on the carby side that can't be seen in the photo but are in the same position as the exhaust side, both ars in front of the bolt on tag. and these have the "top front" on them too, seeing how your first model has this also and my guess is this 6 tab one as being the last, it would supprise me if the other two versions dont have it also, I cant seem to be able to put my hands on my 8 tab bolt on at the moment to have a look, and has me a bit worried but I probably just put it someware so I woulde'nt lose it.

Great work on the Toe Ring topic fellas. It was suggested to me that there is a connection with the change from a straight to bent Tommy bar, and the variation in toe ring styles, that I hadn't even considered.

If you check the second image Jonesy posted, you can clearly see that the bent end is used to fit the ring - it appears it was designed specifically for that. So it looks like the bent bar spanner and that style of Toe Ring came along at the same time.

Thought I would spice up the thread with this:

Feb 21, 1958 - Daily Mirror



I've also come across some intriguing new images. Remember the front flap variation we were discussing:





Now we have this photo, from a seldom seen Automatic pamphlet, and documented confirmation that in the month of October, 1957, changes were made to the Automatic...but the specifics of those changes are still not clear.



What to make of this new image? I'm increasingly convinced that the cable running from the flap to the axle housing is infact a throttle cable, which must have run through the height adjusting rod to the rear flap...maybe...

And if we were after further confirmation of a specific release date, here it is:

Sept 13, 1957



Out to-day!!!

Hey Unkie great images. Yes, that last image you posted makes it look like the cable just runs straight through the height adjusters to the rear flap...Im trying to see how it would work...

Also in the 3rd photo you posted the front cable looks to be almost kinked, Im just wondering could this have lead to the automatics downfall....Or am I going crazy, is this just a bad drawing...?

Also I know this might not be new to you guys but I keep seeing these pop up on eBay and was wondering if they were a factory thing or just some aftermarket product. Well it's quite clear that from a lot of the posts that the automatic and the standard model 4's had these snorkel ties.

Yeah those clips look to be pretty spot on. I'd have to see them side by side with an original, but from the images, they look pretty good...but $10 a pop?!? They did come out on the Roto's and the later models including the Auto, so they are correct, and even if these are reproductions, they are as close as you could get to the real thing I'd reckon.

Unki, the news paper clip with the chick in it clearly shows the left hand bar (suggested cable) however it also clearly shows the right hand throttle cable going to the carby, I have not speculated on this subject but had in my head the left hand part that is shown could be just a guide for the front flap to stop it dropping to far, but to confirm this theary the distance from the axel housing to were it goes through the flap would have to be measured and be a match to the height from the flap hinge point to were it is mounted on the axel housing, the only drawback I could see with this theary is when the flap was in the up position the "guid rod" would be sticking down below the flap and be subject to damage from the grass? (just a theary) by the way, what news paper had the "out today" add in it? The straight Tommy bar/bent Tommy bar uses, would almost gaurentee and confirm that only the Model 4 Automatic with the full predicta and side skirts were issued with the straight bar, as it shows (in my earlier post)the Model 4 Special with the clip on toe ring.

Fantastic Ad on the Release date Unkie. As well as the date this would have to be one of the most informative Victa Ads of any model Ive seen.
As for the Spanner bar. Id also never considered this,But then Ive never really gone into toe rings in this much depth until now. The suggestion you were given seems to be.....Well,Perfectly logical! Now go and hug your Suggester! lmao.

Now going back to the front Flap...Im really having a hard time getting this throttle through the height adjust idea.While I wont discount any Idea put here,I just dont see it:) Firstly the height adjust knob runs on a soild bar....yes the connecting rod is hollow but if a cable ran through from front to rear,where does it actually come in at? There are no connections to the carby to be seen either...It could run under the base from the carby and up through the axle housings and out to the front flap...But Seriously? melted and chopped cables. It must have a simple point of entry. and the only place to have an entry point would be the centre of a moving bar....Doesnt make sense nor seem possible.

As for the Ad with the lady Jonesy,I think you will find that the straight line you see is actually the top of the axle,as it is sitting further right of Centre.The bar in the image goes right to the front And the flap is of the later style with the hump at the end. Anyways just my opinion. I personally think its just a stabilizer bar or guide. Just my opinion from what can be seen in the Images