OutdoorKing Repair Forum Forums Repairs and Maintenance Questions On Ride On Mowers Questions on Greenfield Ride On Mower Frames Greenfield Vintage ower - Any details / manuals ?

I'm trying to find more details on this '70s Greenfield mower. I've looked through the manuals posted on this forum but this model doesn't seem to be covered. It's got a horizontal crank B&S engine rather than the more usual vertical crank with the output at the front of the mower so I'd love to know how the transmission runs to the rear axle.

Hi Rong, welcome to Outdoorking. You might take a look at this thread:
https://www.outdoorking-forum.com.au/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=31145&page=1

This picture from that thread shows engine end of both the cutter and wheel drive:


There are two pulleys on the front of the crankshaft. The front pulley, right at the front of the mower, is driven through a clutch operated by a spring and lever on the right side of the mower. That pulley drives the cutter deck. The rear pulley drives the rear wheels of the mower. Each of those belts drops vertically from its crankshaft pulley then runs around a pair of idler pulleys that turn the belt through 90 degrees so it is running horizontally toward the back of the mower. The cutter deck belt only reaches as far as the cutter deck, under the center of the mower. The wheel drive belt continues as far back as underneath the driver's seat, then runs a full 180 degrees around a large pair of clutch pulleys that change its direction to forward - see picture from the same thread as before:



After passing halfway around those clutch pulleys the belt runs forward and around a spring-loaded idler pulley that tensions the belt. There is a ratchet mechanism so that the tensioning pulley can only tighten over time, not loosen. The two clutch pulleys are parts of two clutches: one for forward and one for reverse. A linkage from the pivoted clutch pedal under the driver's right foot engages one or other clutch depending which direction he or she wants to go. The left end of the shaft running through the hubs of the two clutches carries a sprocket for the chain drive to the rear wheels. The amount of pressure the driver applies to the clutch pedal (top of pedal for forward, bottom for reverse) controls the amount of clutch slip and hence the mower's ground speed.

Because the clutches are large, the system is reasonably durable and these mowers have been used successfully for contract mowing in urban areas.

In case you are interested in details, the mower in your picture (which seems in impressively good condition for an old ride-on) has its cutter drive belt missing. Also, in the side view you can see the wheel drive belt running back under the center of the mower, where it runs over the tops of a pair of idler pulleys that raise it to clear the cutter deck's drive pulley when the deck is in its raised position. Just behind those idlers, you can see the wheel drive belt dip down around the clutch pulleys (see area circled in yellow):

This is a fabulous example of a ride-on in great condition....can you please post any numbers stamped on the machine...this may give us a lead on its history, also the complete string of numbers stamped on the air-cowling of the Briggs...this will give us the exact date of manufacture of the engine.
Also, more pics please.

Hi guys.
Many thanks for the quick replies, much appreciated. I hope to get the mower some time next week so will let you know the details when it's back here.

Ron

I've just taken delivery of the mower, and it's in better condition than I thought it would be! OK it needs a good strip down and overhaul but the bodywork is excellent. On a first look I can't find any numbers on the chassis but maybe I'm not looking in the right place, no doubt one of you will tell me where to look! Numbers on the B&S engine are as follows:
Model 141302, Type 500555, Serial 9242.

Thanks for the update Rong. There seem to be a couple of digits missing from your Code (which you called Serial) for the engine. Since we can't tell which ones are missing, we can't interpret the ones we have.

Please post pictures when you get the chance - "before" pics are part of the story, as well as "after" pics.

That is a real old one even Briggs does not show the parts list(found one parts list below) only engine replacement info which is 20S2320036 and the crankshaft part number is 260607. I will look further for a manual but could take a while.

Hi Grumpy, thanks for the reply. The numbers were taken directly from the engine plate and the last set were from the section actually labeled Serial not Code.
I will take some photos of the engine plate plus ones of the mower tomorrow morning and post them on here but as I said in my previous post, I'm amazed at its condition, not a spot of rust on it and the alloy cutter deck is superb. Even the handbrake works well but I'm not too sure that the drive clutches are working as there is very little movement in the drive foot pedal. I haven't yet tried to start it but a quick pull on the recoil shows there to be good compression.

Hi Bruce
Thanks for posting the pdf, that looks to be spot on as my engine is model number 141302.

What I would really love to know is the date of manufacture of both the engine and mower, late 60's early 70's is my guess.

Ron

Rong, the stamped series of B&S numbers should be in three groups, Model, Series and Code. Model tells you the engine size, design generation, whether crankshaft is vertical or horizontal, type of carburetor, whether it has ball main bearings, and the type of starter. The Series tells you nothing you can make much use of except you can use it to find the right owner manual and parts list. The Code tells you the day, month and year it was made, and which shift/production it came from. The Code consists of eight numbers. Without those we can't tell the production date. The first number is certainly not a 9, so at least one of the missing two may be ahead of that nine.

Grumpy, please see the photo of the engine plate.

Rong, the "serial number" system pre-dates any dealings I have had with B&S engines. It was a system that seems to have existed after the letter types but before the "code" was introduced, as far as I can understand data in the "Briggs & Stratton Repairman's Handbook for Older Engines 1919-1981". However when looking at the records for the serial number, I get the seemingly impossible answer that your engine was made in 1935:
http://www.myoldengine.com/engine-serials-search

Maybe I should contact B&S and see what they have to say?

They should at least be able to tell you when it was made. With a bit of luck they will also tell you something about their old serial number system, and that would be useful for our archives.

It looks similar to an old Howard 2000 model that I worked on a few years ago and maybe Greenfield copied it to some degree. Below is a parts list for the Howard model.

I posted the engine plate photo on B&S FB and someone has posted a reply saying the engine is dated March / April 1948, I must admit that I thought that it would be a bit later than that. Does that mean that the mower is dated around that same time then?

There are two questions for resolution here:
- when that engine was built
- whether it is the original engine.

Normally you can expect that the manufacture date of a mower will be months rather than years after the build date of the original engine, though there can be exceptions when, for example, a mower manufacturer becomes overstocked with engines and takes some time to build them all into mowers.

Here are a load more photos of the mower.

I put some petrol in it plus some oil, adjusted the carb jet to 1 1/4 turns, puled the starter about 10 times and she fired up! Runs really well with no smoke and the forward / reverse clutches are fine. I just need to get a cutter belt and I also need to replace the cutter clutch lining as that is non existent.

It looks to be in excellent condition, and for such an old machine, remarkable condition. I am surprised to see that the wheel drive clutch thrust bearing mechanism is assymetrical - I would have expected it to be symmetrical. There may be wear on it, or a modification. Also, your final drive chain looks dry. Perhaps it has been treated with dry lubricant. Ordinarily chains require oil.

There must be a reason for the cutter clutch having worn out. Presumably it has been slipping. You will need to find out why.

I'm going to measure up and get a cutter drive belt plus some cork for the clutch lining. I'll then be able to see if everything is OK. I then plan to strip it all down and take the various body and chassis parts to a local shot blast and powder coat company and get them to finish it in the orange colour that you can see on the drive pulleys / clutch as I am guessing that this was the original colour for the mower. I read somewhere that Briggs engines were painted black, I don't know if that is true but if so I'll strip that down too and repaint it. The one problem I foresee is getting replacement name decals so I may take some more close up photos of these and find a company who can reproduce them for me.

The colour of Briggs engines depends mostly on when they were made. Orange is probably correct for mid-1970s. A lot of them were white in the late 1970s and black in the early 1980s, but orange seemed to turn up on some engines for quite a while before black took over completely.

I suggest you check the condition of the cutter idler pulleys and spindle bearings. Chances are something caused the clutch to wear out and the belt to disappear, and it makes sense to find it and fix it before it all happens again.

That makes sense! I have noticed that one of the rear axle bearings, the one next to the chain drive is shot so I'll be replacing both of those although the front wheel bearings are fine; I checked those out when I replaced the front tyres and tubes.

It is possible that the left rear wheel bearing was damaged by chain maladjustment, resulting in excessive tension on the chain. If so, the chain will probably have pin-wear. Overloaded chains are also prone to cracking rollers. Either of these faults may result in the sprockets showing some signs of damage. I suggest that when you have the chain off, you hold it on edge horizontally and see if it tends to sag a bit in the middle. Also check for cracked or broken rollers. If it shows either of these faults, it needs to be replaced because it will be out of pitch, and the excessive pitch of the chain will cause the sprocket teeth to wear in a deformed way. If you post pictures of the sprocket teeth, from a point in line with the sprocket's axle so we can see the teeth clearly, we will be able to tell you whether they are worn.

Information coming in tells me that the engine was built in February 1960.

Can you tell us how that was determined, Rong? It sounds just about plausible - I know the date code system was in effect in the early 1960s, and also that layout of Greenfield machines was the earliest one we have encountered - but it would be useful for our archives to know just how the date of an engine of that period can be found.

Hi Grumpy, I'll ask the question. In the end I posted a question on the B&S Facebook page and got some good contact information from the UK B&S guys which put me in touch with guys in the US. I've also posted some questions on the Greenfields Facebook page as I would still like to find out the date of my mower and also the colour it was finished in. As a matter of interest this is the Greenfield reply that I've had so far:

Wow Ron, thanks for sharing this old girl with us. The machine is called a Greenfield HD-8 Tractor, there were a few models within this style. They started with either a Honda or a Fuji HD engine pre 1970, it wasn't until about 1970 that they started making them with the Briggs and Stratton Engine and painted them Red. So you are looking at a machine that is the best part of 42 years old! Not bad for a Ride On Lawn Mower!!

So at the moment I'm a little bit unsure of the mower's date given that B&S engines were only started being used around the 1970s but my engine is 1960 and it would seem unlikely that the engine would have been replaced with one 10 years older!

Rong, another of our members, Rodeobob, has several HD8s a lot like yours but with Honda engines. The pictures I posted early in this thread are of his machines - if you search our archives you will find his posts about them. It does not seem unlikely that someone would have replaced a damaged Honda or Fuji engine with a slightly older Briggs engine if they happened to have access to one - I think only collectors try to match dates closely, most people probably look for an engine of the right size and power at the right price. However because your machine looks to be in exceptional condition for its age and model, it appears to be a potential collector's item, and it seems worthwhile for you to find out what engine it should have. That does not mean you should remove the engine it currently has, but you might choose to watch for an opportunity to acquire the "right" engine and store it, while continuing to use the Briggs.

To find the original colour, the usual technique is to look carefully at the machine and try to find a spot somebody had missed when repainting, or a place where the paint is damaged and you can scrape away the edge of the chipped place to look for another colour underneath. You might also post close-ups of any area where the paint looks to be sub-standard: there are several members who are skilled in distinguishing between original paint and repaint. Do not be surprised if the current paint is original though - it looks like a plausible colour to me. Try comparing it with the colours in some of Rodeobob's pictures.

Hi Grumpy. I had a look through the old posts and photos of other HD8s. A couple of things I have noticed, the bonnet on mine has the same cut out for a fuel tank on the opposite side to that of the B&S engine which would point to a Honda or Fuji but of course all of the mowers could have been made with the same shaped bonnet irrespective of engine used! the rear deck and mudguards on my mower are a bit different to the other ones I've seen on here, the wheels on mine appear to be larger than the others I've seen, mine are 6" front and 8" rear with 13x500x6 and 16x6.50x8 tyres fitted. Again these may be non standard tyres?
Ron

Let's hope someone with HD8 experience sees this thread and joins in, Rong. From Rodeobob's comments it seems the HD8s he has seen have varied in a number of details. My guess at this stage is that your mower did not originally have that Briggs, because it is so much older than the mower seems to be. Whether there is any way to tell whether its original engine was a Honda or a Fuji is a mystery. Also, Bob seemed to be saying that he has seen two different models of Honda engines used on them.

Hi Grumpy. I tend to go along with your views unless, as you say, someone else out there can say otherwise! My guess is that mine is a late 60's model, just before they changed to B&S engines around 1970. Hopefully I can get to find out what engine was originally fitted and restore it correctly but in the meantime I've got plenty to be getting on with elsewhere. As a matter of interest, do you know what thickness cork liner is required for the cutter deck drive clutch, again I'm guessing at 1mm?
Ron