OutdoorKing Repair Forum Forums Repairs and Maintenance Questions on Edgers Two Stroke Edgers Edger Villiers Powered ?

hi again , would anyone know if this is a home made job or did these actualy come out looking as this one does ? its a villiers 4 stroke engine that i know nothing about yet it smells like it did run recently but the guy i bought it from told me it was in a lot from an auction . its missing a plate from the cowling but the one that is there reads , villiers engineering wolverhampton .. any idea's would be great though and its soooo heavy !! seems a serious piece of gear if its a home brew . thanks Dave




complete with lodge spark plug ! looks like its gunne take a shifter to get it out

Be very careful with that apark plug, it looks like one you might be able to disassemble and clean.

That edger I would imagine was a production item (albeit in probably small numbers) it looks too well made to be home made

That is indeed a take-apart spark plug. Always use the larger hexagon for removing and installing it. If necessary you can restrain it by the larger hexagon and unscrew the smaller hexagon. You can then clean the entire insulator with a fine wire brush. Don't take it apart repeatedly though - the gasket that seals the insulator to the steel outside part is not intended for re-use. All spark plugs used to be made that way, and I was one of those who were disappointed when manufacturers found that they could roll a raised up part of the outside steel part inward to hold the insulator in, thus saving money (and also overcoming one of the more common leakage paths for spark plugs that had suffered from amateur maintenance). Incidentally I think you'll find it can be removed with a standard A/F socket or ring spanner, but if it happens to have an 18 mm thread rather than the modern 14 mm thread, it might be a larger size than the 13/16" A/F that was usual from the 1950s onward. The only really odd spark plug spanner I can recall was required for the Model T Ford and vehicles of that ilk, which had 7/8" Gas threads instead of 18 or 14 mm.

I suggest you do not operate that edger without both fitting a proper blade, and installing a side cover. It looks quite dangerous to me. I agree it looks professionally made, but like Victa's built in edger, it was a very bad idea.

Thank you for the tips fellas, I might know a guy that still has boxes of lodge plugs in Vic. Does it have a cover or guard? I don't see where one would fit though and it seems the wire type of thing it has now has always been there?
A strange looking thing yes and again, really heavy . Didn't old Fords have 18mm plugs too ? Going to give it a bit of a clean tonight, to see if i can find more info stamped anywhere . Thanks again.

The 18mm plugs were too long ago even for me to have had a lot to do with them: even in the 1930s, 14mm was more usual. The only engine with an 18mm plug I can clearly remember owning, was a 2 stroke Villiers on a 1949 12" ATCO.

Don't bet those old Lodge plugs your friend has will be dismantlable. I think Lodge disappeared some years after the industry switched to non-dismantlable.

Hi vccomm, and on a great score there mate!
A very interesting old edger.
I would suggest fabricating a side cover guard for the machine...sheet steel the same thickness as the original guard....half-moon shaped with small right angle lugs welded to it that could attach to the top and sides of the guard with self tappers.
I was thinking that this type of edger wires maybe able to be retrofitted to this machine and work satisfactorily.
See HERE

Many years ago I restored 2 Model 'T' Fords; a 1922 and a 1927 (the very last 'T' Model)....grumpy is quite correct, 7/8" ...and required a special spanner...quite a large brass knurled nut on the top of the plug, which secured the plug lead from the trembler coils.
We need to source the exact model of the Villiers for you, which will come in handy if you need spare parts in the future.

thankyou all for the replys and advice , havnt been home much this week to do much and been bad weather too ! should know more about it as soon as time permits and couldnt find anything more in the way of numbers , this one has a large knurled top too holds the lead on , and yes i know not to pull it apart if its not broke
n i wont fix it . cheers Dave would the only id be on the brass plates ? as one is missing a quick look at night and couldnt see any other numbers anywhere ..the 'plug from it compared with a standard , came out freely with a copper washer as a gasket never seen one up close before ! 18mm too i think ?



on it says , made in england on the ceramic stamped on the metal , LODGE----H1 . not yelling , how its stamped .cheers

Hi vcc, they are one large plug, back in their hey-day, they were known as 'sparking plugs' and with the advantage that they could be 'carefully' cleaned, did the job remarkably well.
PS, I like the Zippo in the pic, I have one just like it!

If you are going to remove the Villiers from the chassis for cleaning and painting, take some pics of the engine from different angles and post them; we'll see if we can get it identified for you as to its model etc.

Yes, that is an 18 mm plug, which makes it more expensive to replace, since they are obsolete these days. I think they can be obtained, at a price, and perhaps with a limited range of types. Don't forget to reinstall the copper washer between the plug body and the cylinder head, or it will leak and erode both plug and head. Incidentally that plug has a stub side electrode instead of an adjustable one, so you can't adjust the gap. I can only recall seeing that before on aircraft engine plugs, which had multiple stubs right around the perimeter.

The conventional way to "stamp" markings onto cylindrical metal objects is to roll it on: the information is set up in metal type as if it were going to be stamped, but the type is moved across the cylinder, while the cylinder rotates underneath it.

Hi again, just a heads-up, John Humphries has let us know that he has spare parts for Villiers engines, maybe worth an email or a phone call...he may have new old stock plugs available.....Click HERE
Hoping this may help,

thanks again guys , the washer is broken but i think i can make a new one easy enough though , yup it hasto come off for a good look as it has no spark . plug lead is badly perished might be the problem ? found an odd little thing up behind the flywheel , looks like it might be a cutout type thing . sure is an oldie ! thanks for the tip deejay i'll keep it in mind . still looking into it at the min' . cheers Dave





a few more with it the machine . cant find a brand on the carb without removing it , all stamped on the bottom of the 'bowl but some i found on the engine , on sump BM506 at one end V1277 at the other , on the crankcase i think it's V1292 but not too clear moulded into it behind flywheel so hard to read .. ant stamped into flywheel fan which looks like its bolted to the flywheel is 5223967 , make sense to anyone ? flywheel looks mostly brass as is the intake manifold and sundry other parts !!

hi again , a little more looking and stripping of paint and found a number on a flap , looks like its to clean engine fins ? as theres nothing else under there . its hinged from cooling cowl you can make it out in the 3rd pic' . stamped AGH 1946 . could this be the date ?? and a patent number on fuel cap PAT 838112 i think but hard to read . with the cowling removed it looks a lot like the suffolk except for the govenor on the side of crankcase on villiers . cheers

Hi vcc, unfortunately we have not got the capability of back-tracking the numbers to the Mark number of the engine. Villiers engines of this age are mostly the same external dimensions and the differences are in the bore and stroke sizes.

It looks to be either a mark 10 or 12, I have an original workshop manual for it here somewhere I use on my own Villiers motors. Anyhow the year is occasionally stamped on the flywheel, Now is there any way you can take the aluminum cover off the brass flywheel without undoing the main crank bolt? Reason I ask, is the flywheel isn't on a key and needs to be carefully manually timed in if you remove the flywheel....

Thanks Joe, thanks to your help, this got me thinking and I did a little further research and I think we've nailed it....It is a Mark 10. The date of manufacture will be stamped on the flywheel as you have stated.

Here is some info:
The Mk.10 Villiers four-cycle, side valve engine was a typical Villiers product. It was simple, neat and compact, with few moving parts. Because of this simplicity, Villiers engines were reliable and easy to maintain. The engine included the Villiers flywheel magneto, with the engine cooling fan mounted on the outside of the flywheel. Most of the parts were made in-house and additional parts were available for petrol-paraffin running.

The engine had a 50mm bore and a 50mm stroke. The total swept volume was 98 c.c. and the engine could deliver 1.3 h.p. at 2,800r.p.m., and 1.6 h.p. at 3,400r.p.m (HS Engine). It was air-cooled by fan and cowling. A Villiers B10 carburettor is fitted as standard, the air filter being of the oil wetted gauze type or oil bath. The capacity of the fuel tank was 0.5 gallons. Lubrication is by �splash�. The oil sump held one pint. It was fitted with a Lodge CB3 918 mm) spark plug, (BN (14 mm) for later engines)..

This engine was mainly fitted to lawnmowers or horticultural equipment.

The military version of this engine had the words �The V Engine� cast into the crankcase. The V engine saw service in a wide range of applications. In keeping with engines designed for military use, the engine came fitted with reinforced fuel pipes and a screened ignition system.
Here are some pics:




You have all the numbers on the engine except the date of manufacture, which you can get from the flywheel....what we need now is to find a replacement brass ID plate for the cowling, and you are all complete!

that sure looks like the one . you blokes amaze me ! and yes the cover does come off lucky i didnt go further is the timing that hard to do ? i'll go look again see if there is a date . thanks again fella's nope cant find anything on flywheel but its going to come off anyway as HT lead is beyond it ! perished badly has arrows though one on engine case and one on 'wheel , so tdc would be it ? and pull the head as cant feel the piston . thanks again

doing the timing requires taking the head off, and holding everything still while using your fourth hand to tighten up the crank bolt, not particularly hard but time consiming. I hae found most times where there is no spark the points are just dirty and they can usually be accsessed by removing the little cover, then they can be found under a round cover in a little tin shaped thing.

More just trying to save time by avoiding removing the flywheel than anything, but from memory there are two marks on the flywheel that can line up with two marks on the crankcase, then the piston has to be around 1/4" before TDC (well I used that before I got my manual many times and it worked with those settings).

seems ok to remove flywheel , but now it is off i found the ht lead can be taken out without removing ! but allgood needed a cleanup in there anyway , tried the link could never work out the email thing ! and no answer to calls sure do need a lead for it now . only screws in from behind flywheel case


just make out the kill button there too , seems thats what it is everything looks good inside not too much carbon and no scratches

Pm me I have a roll of ht lead I can give you a foot or so Odin pretty certain will work with your application

Hi Joe and Vcc, glad to see its all working out. Was the little tin cover that goes over the points box missing? It is an important piece of kit, as it tends to keep moisture out which is the scourge of electrics....Also were any numbers found on the inside rim of the flywheel?

hi deejay , yes it is missing and not a number to be found on flywheel , wondered what cover joe was talking about but as soon as i saw it i knew . still cleaning and stuff just got a new lead and havto make it up now . guys at my local shop told me to be carefull as the spark kicks like a mule ! i'll find out soon i hope . cheers Dave

a few more in progress , carb clean and paint a few bit i missed hope i got the timing right . havto find the tin? cover for the points though then start on the base



and find the other plate for cowl too . sorry not great but camera's having a moment again . thanks again for the help . cheers Dave

Hi Dave, you've taken to it like a duck to water! mate, looking good!! Hope she runs like a bought one, if not....well that's what we're here for...

thanks mate and i know yes , been a lot of help so far with this one , so new to me and its such a simple engine found a few on youtube , they sound great too ! cant wait to hear this running . thanks again

Looks good Dave!

thanks john . a few more of the jigger its getting closer ! just need to get it running now and make a cover for the cutters , maybe a taller handle as its a tad low for me




i couldnt do much with the wheels as thier welded axles ! so i'll wait and see how long they last . still need to make a new plug lead as i cant find one anywhere , have the lead and stuff but i dont like to use crimps on it unless i realy havto .. cheers Dave

i think it might be a mk 10 as i found another one localy . seems a later model and id plate says it is a mk 12 , a few differences too . could they be electronic ignition ?has a different flywheel , better frame this one you can at least get at the starter pulley ! and 3 wheels front and rear a covered cutter too . pic's too come as only have my phone now camera died finaly . the newer engine is made in ballarat . cheers

almost forgot , sorry but its a little cloudy today but heres the other one . seems to run sweet but do they have any sort of throttle control ? i dont see one on either of them or are they just govorned , still no spark on the 1st one and the newer one i think will take the cutter's deejay recommended , thanks Dave