OutdoorKing Repair Forum Forums Repairs and Maintenance Questions on Engines Questions On Briggs & Stratton Engines Briggs & Stratton 850 Series I/C OHV, help needed.

Hello all,

I have a 21 inch / 530mm wide cut mower that I wish to re-power, it is currently fitted with a Quantum XTL55.

I wish to purchase a Briggs & Stratton 850 Series I/C OHV 190 cc engine.

Firstly does anyone know why the 850 featured on www.briggsandstratton.com is different to the one featured on the Australian web site www.briggsandstratton.com.au? They are so different that the Air Cleaner and muffler are on opposite sides of the engine? Is one of the 850s superior to the other?

I found via link http://www.briggsandstratton.com/engines/support/frequently-asked-questions/~/media/364AFDEA1CBF4E4B91B522F0F0780A69.ashx that I should purchase Model � Type, 121Q02 � 0025 However I have been told that Briggs & Stratton do not bring this engine into Australia. Instead I have been told I should purchase 12Q902-0149, however I cannot find any documentation on variant 12Q902-0149 and I believe it may be discontinued.

Therefore in summary can someone clarify:
- What is the difference between 121Q02 � 0025 and 12Q902-0149 from a functionally, reliability or performance view?
- Also what is the correct model to order in Australia for the 850 I/C engine with a 25mm diameter shaft?
- Can anyone recommend either of the two engines?
- If 121Q02 � 0025 is the newer improved engine should I privately import this from the US?
- Has 12Q902-0149 been discontinued

Any and all advice on this subject is welcome,

Thanks for your time.

First, I think the only way to get the detailed information you are looking for, is to ask Briggs and Stratton. I do not think you are all that likely to find a mower enthusiast who has made a study of it.
Second, if you were to import an engine that is not sold locally, you will have to expect to import at least some of the spare parts for it (the ones that are not the same as the locally sold engine). Working out any warranty issues from long distance might also be rather slow.

Sometimes when there are frequent model changes, a low volume distributor (such as B&S here in Australia) may decide not to handle all of the models, but to wait for major changes each time. Otherwise they would constantly be liquidating old stock at a discount, and stocking spare parts would be a nightmare. I am not saying that is what has happened here, but it is a possibility you might be able to clarify with a phone call to B&S.

Hi Old Viking, any reason you wanted the OHV series?

Thanks Grumpy and Aldot for your comments

Grumpy thanks for the advice, I attempted to contact B&S via their frequently asked questions form on their website prior to creating this thread but they did not respond.

The advice from a number of dealers I have visited is that I should purchase 12Q902-0149, no-one has been able to explain why this model / type is used, and not 121Q02 – 0025 as indicated on the B&S website.

Aldot, I want an OHV engine for the greater torque offered by the OHV design over the L head side valve design. I am repowering a large 21 inch Viking with a heavy 4 blade cutting disk and I cut about 4 hours of Kokuya grass and 2 hours of Buffalo whenever I cut the grass.

A couple of hours ago I placed the order for 12Q902-0149 and I should receive it by the end of the week.

I now have the fun of getting the disk blade boss of the old Quantum XTL55.

I will post an update once I am done if anyone is interested.

Interseting to see how it goes Old Viking.

The local mower guy has the red L head I/C motors and they are stamped as a 650 series. He sells them for $399.

Can I ask what sort of money the 850 series go for and are they an I/C engine?

Hi Aldot,

To answer a couple of questions, The 850 is an I/C engine and appears to be the most powerful engine available for walk behind mowers with an iron bore. B&S also make an 875 however that is an alloy bore so I skipped it.

The 850 is available from $435 online, however I am paying a premium to purchase it locally from a shop front so that I have a point of reference for warranty purposes.

One of my frustrations during this process has been the lack of online information, for example:

- The Masport website www.masport.com.au has been offline for almost a week,

- The Victa website does not have their current models on it, for example the MASTERCUT 600 is now available with the 850 engine however this not on their website,

- The Australian and US B&S websites show different products to each other,

- No online information available on some model / type B&S engines,

- No news room updates on the B&S site since 2008

- The Bynorm and GA Power Equipment Spares have online catalogues however you cannot order from these organizations unless you are a dealer

I hope the industry address some of these points.

I hear what you are saying OldViking.

I think the trouble is that most people just dont give a Poo.

Oh wow, its a mower, it starts first pull and mows my grass. Im so excited about the colour i think i just had an orgasm.



ByNorm and GA are for the dealers. Thats like if you want to buy products from Ryco, you need to go through Repco or Bursons etc.

I thought ByNorm was owned by Briggs now.


If i were you i would have gone on the look out for an old 5HP I/C motor and re-ringed it. Would have been on par with the money but money better spent IMO.

Well actually i lie. I would have gone with a 2 stroke Victa motor.


Bob.

Hi All,

Today I took delivery of the new Briggs & Stratton 850 OHV I/C engine. It was manufactured back in October of 2009. The model type code is 12Q902-0149-B1. A small difference is that the plastic across the top of the engine is black not grey like on the B&S and Masport websites.

Unfortunately I will not be able to install it until next week due to time constraints. I am now worried about saving the old blade boss. Below are some pictures for your interest.

Any mention/markings of the country of manufacture Old Viking?

I did not notice any marking on the motor re county build, however on the box it states “Made in U.S.A.” I am happy about this.

The blade boss should come off fairly easily with a decent 3 jaw puller.
The quauntum and mower itself are not that old are they??


Cant remember if the bolt in the center of the crank is 5/16 or 3/8 UNF i think its the latter.

Get a short bolt and small washer, screw it right in. Get a nut thats the same hex size as the head of the bolt. Put a spanner on it so it holds the bolt head and holds the nut in place. Put the puller on and set it up. The spanner will hit a leg of the puller and that will stop the bolt screwing in over tight. Put a bar through the legs of the puller onto the bench and wind it up.
Boss shoud slide off.


The only bosses i have had trouble with have been on 20+ year old mower. If i had heat i would say they would come off too, one way or another.

Bob.

Hi All,

Thanks for all or your advice in this process of my re-powering the old Viking mower.

Today I managed to do the change over. It was a very easy process, and as suggest by Rodeobob the blade boss came off easily, via the use of the 3 legged gear puller. I had been worrying about this for weeks, as it had been in place since new (1997), however I hit it with some WD40 back on 20 Feb so it has had 3 weeks to soak before my change over works. I also used a product known as copper coat between the drive shaft and blade boss on the new engine so the two do not fuse over time.

I also hit the base with a high pressure washer during the change over, however due to the flash light it looks no better but is in daylight.

I also adjusted / straitened the muffler guard, as this was bent in the box from B&S as shown in my picture from 7 days ago. The throttle control is a temporary effort until I fit a new unit that will extend closer to the top of the handle.

The new engine started first pull and runs very smooth with lots of torque. Picture below of before and after change over.

Well done OldViking. New donk looks good. I have the same mower only in the 18 inch version with the same XTL motor. Looks as tidy a yours does after similar years of service.

Well done OldViking, with that I/C OHV engine you should have a professional-grade mower there, and it looks great as well. If you follow the B&S maintenance recommendations, it should last longer than I will (don't know about you, you may be younger).

Hi All,

Thanks aldot and grumpy for your positive comments. I agree with you grumpy, this repowered Viking should last many years, and yes I will follow the regular B&S maintenance recommendations as I did with the original Quantum XTL55 for the last 14 years. In reference to your age comment grumpy I should outlast the motor as I am still in my thirties.

I thought I would take the opportunity to provide my thoughts of this engine after its first 5 hours of use.

Over the years I have used many mowers from Victa 18 toe cutters, Victa Corvette 70 series, B&S powered Rovers, Masports and offcourse the Viking. I usually prefer to use a B&S Quantum I/C powered L head Masport or the Viking pre repowering. Now that I have repowered the Old Viking with this B&S OHV I/C 190cc engine I can report that nothing else that I have ever used comes close to this new engine in terms of power and torque.

This new engine is amazing, after using it for about 2 hours, I found an area of Kokuya grass about 70 meters square, that was around 30cm tall it was wet from the overnight air and had a heavy matting of grass 5cm from root level from being cut 3 weeks prior. I know that this section of the property can be killer on mowers causing frequent stalls. With the new engine I simply put it up to full revs and left the height adjuster at normal height. I was able to cut this section of grass as fast as I could walk with the engine revs only dropping by about 5% under load, I have never before been able to use a mower that will cut grass that thick without any issues. Remember that this is also a 21 inch cut and therefore is even more remarkable from a power to cut ratio perspective.

In another part of the property my brother and I started mowing at the same time, I was using the repowered Viking, the brother was using a Masport 600i with a B&S Quantum I/C engine, we both started with a full tank of fuel, I chose to cut the heavier sections of grass and I was able to run 20 minutes longer than my brother on 1 tank of fuel, therefore this engine is good on fuel.

Not that it worries me however this new engine is noisy, it seems to generate a large howl kind of sound and draws a massive about of air past the grill around the starter down into the top of the engine, it draws far more air down into the top of the engine than any of the B&S quantum engines I have used. It does however run very smooth with a nice constant engine note.

A small design issue that I am being carful of is the ground wire, it drops from below the carburettor near the very front of the engine. I am concerned that I could hook and damage it on low branches mowing up close to shrubs in the garden. You can see the wire in my pictures of 5 March. It is also nice to use an engine that never emits any smoke on starting, and that does not have any fumes during use.

In conclusion I am very happy with the re-powered Viking, and I recommend these 850 I/C OHV engines to anybody interested in a solid performing mower.

For anyone interested in doing the same, the model type code is 12Q902-0149-B1.

Thanks for the report OldViking. You should not be surprised by the improvement in fuel economy when you substitute a high compression OHV engine for a low compression side valve one, it should make a difference of something like 20%. If it has speed-controlled ignition advance instead of fixed timing, the advantage would be even greater (I don't know whether it does, it doesn't seem to be mentioned in the specifications though, so probably not).

With reguard to the earth/stop wire.
The plate that folds up in front of the throttle linkages, perhaps you could drill two small holes in it and pop rivet or screw/bolt a small piece of something to hang down over the front of it as a guard.
If you wanted to get real clever you could swap out the bottom valve cover bolt for a stud and nut and fix the bottom corner of it there so it is more secure.
Also have the bottom and side of it with a 90deg lip on it for strenght.

The front of the fuel line with such a sharp bend in it also looks like it could be the cause of trouble. I would say over the next 14 years you could be up for a couple of new fuel lines.

Bob.

Hi all,

I am wondering whether Briggs & Stratton 850 Series I/C OHV engine can be fitted to 1992 Victa Silverstreak alloy base?

I have seen new Victa Mustang mowers use this engine and the mustang base also used Victa two stroke engine. I am not sure whether the new Victa engine has a chnged mounting holes.

Thanks in advance

K8Canb

The 92 Victa alloy base might be dual drilled.
Power torque motor is the same pattern as a briggs that is mounted sideways. Ive a few here with 5hp quantums sideways mounted but i think they are a bit newer.
Most of the bases (from the mid-late 80s on) were dual drilled as they turned the Tecumseh motors around so they faced forwards. And then later the briggs sprints etc with the spacer rings.

Probably best if you start your own thread in the Victa frames section and put some pics up of the mower.

Hi All,

Since my post on 20 March above, I have used the repowered Viking for many hours and have found the 850 I/C OHV engine to be remarkable, it never runs out of torque in the rough stuff, is good on fuel usage and generally great to use.

I have been so impressed with the 850 I/C OHV that I have decided to go shopping for a new mower for my place. The Viking lives at my parents’ house, I have been using an old Series 70 Victa Corvette at my place.

I also should say that when I purchase a mower things that I look for are 4 blades on a disk, not cutting bars, alloy body not steel to avoid rust, plenty of torque, ball bearing wheels and an engine with an Iron bore for longevity. I decided that I must have an 850 I/C for my place on a new mower, and the only logical choice that checked all the boxes was the Masport 700AL Combo I/C. The 700AL Combo I/C has a 20 inch cut and comes with a mulching plug in addition to the catcher.

The Masport’s 850 has a different model/type code to that on the Viking. The masport’s is a 12Q902-0160-B1 in contrast to the Viking’s 12Q902-0149-B1.

The differences between the two 850 I/C OHVs are:
- 12Q902-0160-B1 has a fuel tap,
- 12Q902-0160-B1 has redirecting attachment on the exhaust tip to direct gases to the right,
- 12Q902-0160-B1 has a zone start lengthened starter, and
- 12Q902-0160-B1 has grey top in contrast to 12Q902-0149-B1’s black

I can report that this new Masport 700AL Combo I/C is great to use with plenty of torque and below are some pictures for those interested.