Always wanted an old Australian 2 stroke....... Got one this morning for $25. Motor turns over. The guy said he tried to get it going 30 yrs ago, no spark so he put it in the garage..... I'm going to continue where he left off...... It looks pretty good for about 70 years old. ?? Haven't identified it properly yet. But I see a few on ODK. cheers speedy
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Looks good to me for $25. Around 1959. USA sourced recoil starter
I bought a Cheap Pope 320-03 and got it running but was a little disappointed as I was missing the original air filter and the original blade plate anyway eventually found another 320 -03 that was complete but haven't got around to looking at it yet.
The Pope motor set the Go Kart endurance record back in it's day.
Morning Max, Thanks, mine is a 320-03. I've been collecting manuals pictures in special folder, so I have it all when I start. Only 62 years young. I've sprayed it with WD40. Just got too clear the decks first.... speedy
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Took flywheel off with my Ford puller... cleaned it up, points were good, sanded them. No spark, so I put a Victa condensor in, good spark. I just need to get flywheel nut and base plate nut... Have to go into Bolt shop in town, take the mower in? Got an idea the sizes Max? Imperial ? course and fine for base? This is what I'm after.......................... https://www.youtube.com/shorts/L-jQ2-q2XgE cheers speedy
Last edited by Bruce; 15/03/2411:16 PM.
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I had a quick look at a spare motor but the top crank thread was half damaged .
The lower crank nut thread looked like it was 5/8 UNF that's 18 threads per inch.
The top thread was 1/2 inch ,the thread gauge would not go on because of the damaged thread but looked like it was 12 threads per inch so if correct I think that's 1/2 inch British standard Whitworth.
If it's 1/2 inch 13 TPI that would be 1/2 inch UNC
hello Max, Bought two nuts. $1. The bottom nyloc nut fits perfectly. The top nut tightens up. It's not the right size. I checked the Pope manual diagrams and , the top nut in not mentioned........ It shows bottom nut size.. I will take mower in to try to fit another close size. My top thread is good. It came with a nut on it ,but it was tight as well..wrong nut. My base plate is not original, but it is 16mm hole so will do the job. It has Victa slot holes.... Must be a Victa. None of modern Victa ones fit. I'll just plod on. get a nut. thanks speedy
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The motors that are missing the recoil starter are missing the right top nut because it's part of the starter assembly, the nut can't be removed separately .
I couldn't find a 1/2 inch UNC nut here so just put a tap in a slightly smaller nut taking it out to 1/2 inch UNC ( 13 TPI)
The nut was a little tight to thread on the first time with a spanner but it threads on and off by fingers now.
So if the 1/2 UNC nut is tight you may have to put a tap in the nut or a 1/2 inch UNC Die nut on the crank.
Got a problem with he Pope carb,so I put a Victa carb on with a bit of plumbing. Should supply fuel/air mixture to burn. Next step is condensor.... I did a dummy run and got spark, so I'll tidy it up, or take Norms advice and put a module in........ Now I've got covid, I'm getting a few jobs done....can't go out.....no one in....you think.....
cheers speedy
Last edited by speedy; 21/03/2207:37 PM. Reason: add pic
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Hi speedy, take it easy and get better soon. exactly what I did with the little utility I'm getting back to doing what it was designed for smashing out long grass. No spark, so I just cut the kill switch wire going to the carby, connect a PT module to the wire and instantly good big spark. Still couldn't get a kick out of it so I will give it a hone and put a set of rings in it and it should fire up. That carby setup you have will work no problems if everything else is up to scratch
When we had lock downs and closed borders most people didn't know anyone with Covid but now everyone knows someone with covid. Now you can chillax Speedy to get over covid, wishing you well.
The carby setup will run lean ,the Pope is 3.5 Hp but the Victa 125 is 1.5 Hp so you would need 2 Victa carbies .
The Pope HP may be a SAE HP reading while the Victa 125 may be DIN HP but even so this would make the 125 around 2 hp.
The Pope carby should be easily fixed if it's not broken or missing parts.
I soldered in a Victa condensor, I got a spark when I first tried it a while back, but no spark now. so I put in a module from some machine. it had two wires coming out, ,didn't work...... I took the module out of a Power Torque that was no good, and now I got spark. Bodgied up a fuel tank and used electric drill to start. Primed and used starter fluid, but it didn't fire........... Thinking............... I will check the timing as it is explained how to do it in the manual I have... thanks for wishes. I feel ok.... slight cough speedy
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Read up on timing..... but how do I set timing with no points?? I've timing is inside module... might have to try another module? Or go back to points and condenser. speedy
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Sorry speedy, I can't give you any info on the Pope timing, I thought the module was designed to do that. One thing I have never tested is if a PT module will work on an old Briggs with points ignition .I assume it would work (don't have a motor here I could test it on at the moment, I have always just put a later Briggs coil on) Would like to know just the same and I don't think the timing is your issue, I'm thinking more like rings. I have an early sidethrow here that won't fire, bore looks ok with just one slight scoreline. It still has the old G3 carb on it but I can't get a hint of a fire with starter fluid. When I get a chance I will give it a hone and a set of rings and hopefully that will fire it up. Not sure if rings for your Pope are available
Hello Norm, Yes the module I have is IIDA EY850 off a powertorque which was running before it blew up. I think it fits any two stroke... I see them on ebay for husqvarnas. There is so much compression, the drill had difficulty turning over. I put oil in plug hole to lube it all. I had a spark, then I didn't have a spark. Maybe it's the coil. I'll recheck it all. I have been reading a lot about modules, even a lot on ODK. Getting confused, crazy and then go blank. You have got to have it planned out what you are going to do in your mind first...... be relaxed, then work the plan.... There is a kill switch setup on the old G3 carb, maybe it's in that position.... I did lawn today after 8 days, ,dug and burnt another garden and planted silverbeet.......... Gee those lockdowns must have driven people really CRAZY..... We only had one here for short time couple of weeks ..... or so. speedy
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I'd just use the points as I have seen different modules for different mowers so they can get the timing correct ,the Victa module won't work with all coils.
I just got this Pope going ,checked the magnet on the flywheel that it was still magnetized ,filed the points ,tested the condenser and adjusted the points and timing ,it started 4th go.
The Victa carby would make starting very difficult as I had the throttle position on the Pope carby on at least 3/4 on first start. and the victa carby at full throttle would probably be equivalent to the pope on half throttle.
The motor on my Pope mower sounded like it was purring also sounded grunty but quiet but sounds terrible in the Video in comparison .
Nice sound Max. I put the points back in with a newer Victa condenser. Then tried to set timing. Followed the instructions in the manual parts list....I couldn't get the 5/32 " clearance, it's retarded... Got a spark, changed the plug as it was firing all over the place. I put the long tube on the starter spray as far into open carb. It fired 5 times...... hurrah.................. I'll put new spark plug in tomorrow. You machine looks a lot newer than mine. I thought maybe something had crawled up exhuast over 30 years and built a nest or two...... Is no 4 pic the starter? I'm using electric starter but I have various pull starters around, even a rope.... I'll get some pics of my carb problem as well. cheers speedy
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If you can't get the timing to work because the coil plate is turned as much as it can to advance but isn't enough, I think you can remove washers from one side of the points and fit to the other side, move the points closer to the cam that will give a bigger gap then close the gap with the washers, where the green arrow is put more washers ,I've never needed to do this but looks like it should work.
Yes wasn't a lot wrong with my Pope mower Speedy ,number 4 pic is the starter square drive.
Well done Speedy ,this Pope definitely looks like it hasn't run for 3 decades.
16 to 1 is the correct ratio for using engine oil as 2 stroke mix. People say you get covered in smoke at this ratio.
If you use good quality 2 stroke oil you could probably get away with 32 to 1 but I ran 25 to 1 with outboard 2 stroke oil, this was just running the motor with no load but cutting grass I'd probably go 20 to 1 if it doesn't smoke too much.
Yep these Pope mowers will cut down a forest , my pope cut some grass today and starts first go.
I remember seeing a rotary valve Pope for $45. it even had the catcher and looked cleaner than my one, it was fair few years ago and I didn't know how reliable the Pope motor was so didn't buy it. Now I know how hard the catcher is to find.
The three bladed cutting disc must make a distinct note. Is the blade plate cracked where the blades go on or is that a flap of metal that's part of the design?
Last edited by Mowerfreak; 27/03/2210:28 PM.
Ahh, if only victa had kept producing the thumblatch catcher series, they would be in better shape today!
I bet that's where Victa got their CSIRO designed special mulching base plate from. Mine has got a round plain baseplate. I think it was maybe an option as I've seen another with the same plate. It has three distinctive rivits on a strenghening washer. I'll keep my eye out for others but they will be scarce.
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The blade plate is not cracked Mf ,just the design. SupaSwift was another with 3 blades.
Jack has written here about the design with the patent , it's the standard original blade plate, the Plate Speedy refers to sounds like a later model Pope blade plate.
When the old blades were no longer available people just changed the blade plate.
Hello Max, Here's my problem with my Pope carb....... See the circled part....... well it's really two parts.... they screw together..... mine is siezed .... I have tried soaking in wd40, CLR heat rattle gun, but it's hard to hold the little inside brass round thing and get a spanner on the bottom nut. I need to change fibre washers. and I also need the two pin screws no 16 on the parts page. That Victa carb works really well..... for time being. cheers speedy
Last edited by speedy; 28/03/2207:59 PM.
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With the nut on the fuel bowl ,you can't really use a rattle gun or use force as you know the whole lot will spin and as you say it's difficult holding the inside part from spinning.
Looks like it's tight on the last of the thread when removing ,I would get some Loctite and put it on the thread of the 2 brass parts that came apart then tighten the 2 parts and leave it for 24 hours to harden ,then put some vice grips on the upper end then tighten the nut at the lower end ,use penetrene on the thread ,keep working the thread by tightening and loosening, eventually as you loosen the nut should undo a mm more then tighten again and repeat many many many times eventually the nut will come off but you don't use a lot of force as this can damage or seize or break the brass thread .
So you're just working the thread backwards and forwards until eventually it will undo more and more.This can take a while.
With the 2 compensating tubes (no. 16) that screw into the emulsion tube ,they are just two threaded bolts with a hole in the middle so could be made ,just have to drill the right size hole.
The Victa carby sounds a little bad to me on this Pope,I can hear the engine popping in the video all the time , when the carby fuel mixtures are wrong you get that popping noise out the exhaust, even in my video I hear the popping noise when decelerating but not when throttling up and revving.
Here is a bike making the noise when decelerating but the Pope video you hear it all the time popping ,I wonder if too small a carby is working like a bigger carby with the choke stuck on.The right carby may also help that smoke problem.
One solution with stuck delicate things is to put them in penetrant in a jar and then place the jar in an ultrasonic cleaner. If you leave it for a decent period the penetrant will eventually migrate unless it’s actually become fused.
Good idea Ironbark. I'm spraying every day with penetrant.... funny how on the pars list it is not shown as two parts..... Anyway she's having a bath now. cheers speedy
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motor is ready........ base etc ready to come out of molasses bath. the work starts. there's no rust but still a bit of flaky paint that should come off easy. Max, I still can't get the brass nut off the bottom of carb, but I'm getting another carb complete in july, even has the two brass air tubes in place. got is soaking in brake fluid now. speedy
lest we forget
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I’ve never seen a pope mower but it’s possible that what you’re attempting to disassemble may have been together a very long time.
If the penetrant won’t loosen it then I’d try heat. I’ve had shafts semi fuse onto bearings and various bushings partially migrate into alloy in things I’ve tried to fix, so sometimes nothing works but cycling things with heat can really help to loosen things up.
This is what I do with old bits of cars and machinery.
If the bolt part is externally threaded (like a standard bolt) then I put the whole assembly in a thick plastic bag in a freezer overnight along with whatever spanner I am going to use to try to turn the bolt. This will reduce the amount of warming of the bolt that will occur just by working on it.
The next day sort out a good solid way to hold the assembly. I have a blacksmith’s vice and often use that as I can heat it up til it’s nice and hot without damage, however you can also use a big pair of vice grips. I apply my map torch (it’s easy to control heat) selectively to the outside while using the frozen spanner on the bolt. I apply very slight force in the tightening direction until I feel just hint of movement before then loosening.
If the part you can grab with a tool is internally threaded then you’ll need to heat that tool and and cool what you’re using to hold the assembly instead.
If you perform repeated cycles of heating and cooling with judicious amounts of force applied that can give a result. It’s a game of patience. If it doesn’t move I try another setup and another cycle of heat and cold.
With fuel systems there are residues that act like both salts and adhesives. We had a carb cleaner that came in a bucket and you’d give the component a good external clean with the parts washer and degreaser then soak the whole assembly in the bucket, strip it back as far as you could and put it back in the bucket. It was very effective at both cleaning and loosening parts. I don't know what was in it but you had to wear special gloves and none of it was allowed into a sink or drain. It was a long lasting product that would do a number of carbys or throttle bodies before losing its effectiveness.
The base looks good for it's age Speedy as both of my Pope rotary valve mowers will need a small amount of welding done on the bases.
I'd like to get my spare motor going but needs a fair amount of parts so probably cheaper to buy another mower
Once the carby arrives you will just need to adapt a recoil starter to work , If you want the starter a similar size to the original then I would use a Briggs and stratton starter ,just drill the rivets out of the Briggs starter and rivet it to the Pope cowl or make an adaptor plate ,this Pope is getting there.
I used a Sprint 3.75 starter on a Suzuki 2 stroke and it worked fine.
Can your use a late model Tecumseh starter? I have a mini glut of them at the moment. Problem is they are screwed onto the cowl using horizontal screws. You would probably have to cut out part of the cowl it's screwed into and in turn attach that to the Pope.
Ahh, if only victa had kept producing the thumblatch catcher series, they would be in better shape today!
I have heard of people making hub caps for the Pope from flat alloy plate and hammering it to a slight dish if you can't find second hand caps if any are missing.
The front wheel did a runner in the video,I hope the wheel didn't run too far it might get tire-d and I hope the wheel didn't end up on the road with cars going past as the wheel would be exhaust-ed.
The lawn needed mowing and the Pope needed a run......... 18" cut does a better job than and of my mowers........ Hubcap fell off but that's not a major problem...... I only had it mid range revs....... Had to stop as my arm was getting sore pushing it one handed....... maybe I need a go pro.... ha ha ha ha.
speedy
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These rotary valve Pope mowers have a lot of grunt Speedy ,after I put the electronic ignition on my Pope the running Pope mower will try and spin in a circle if I'm not holding the handle .
Definitely one of the better vintage mowers , if you are after a starter for your mower ,every now and then I see old 4 stroke Clinton powered Pope mowers that no one seems to want, probably because they have no compression and they sell for $10.to $20 but the starter will fit the 2 stroke.Just have to keep a look out in online sales etc.
New Pope Mowers give you that get up and Mow Feeling.
Wish I could do my mowing/slashing one handed... but I do like the physical workout of struggling through the rough stuff with mowers way past their use-by date.
Another option Speedy may be a early sure start alloy housing impulse starter as they are the same bolt pattern, you can use a steel impulse starter but you need one from something like a Victa Mayfair 1965 to 1967.
There are 2 different bolt patterns on the steel impulse starters from 1963.
I saw a Pope motor on gumtree with a starter but I doubt it's worth $80. but if the price drops and you can get postage on the starter it may be an option.
My other Pope has so much compression, I think I'll need a decompressor.... but it should be going soon.
It looks like a 125cc Victa head would fit with the decompressor but would be a lot of work to make the cowl fit and the fuel tank fit over the decomp. The standard Pope should be ok without a decomp.
I'd forgotten that the later Pope 2 strokes have the decompressor standard ,it just has a linkage rod that when the starter rope is drawn out ,the rubber end of the link is in contact with the turning starter and this moves the linkage pushing in the decompressor .
I don't see many original working Pope decompressors ,seen a few where the linkage is missing or the decomp is seized.
