OutdoorKing Repair Forum Forums General Discussion Forum Off Topics More info on 15w40 oils

Evening all

This will be a long one as I have been compiling for sometime now.

I have started/commented in several past oil related threads regarding the use of regular 15w40 as mower oil.

As stated before, I have always used a 15w40 engine oil in nearly everything I have. Occasionally, sae30 for some briggs that will really need it or 10w40 for some Honda.

I am no expert in chemistry or oil composition, however decided a few months ago to work out good oils for mower use.

I always purchase my oils from Autobarn – they regularly have oils out for between $10 and $15 for 5l.

My main options through their sales thus far have been:

Castrol Ultraclean 15w40 semi synthetic $2.4/l
Nulon Premium Mineral 15w40 $2/l
Gulf Western Premium Gold 15w40 $2/l
Valvoline Engine Armour 15w40 semisynthetic $2.5/l

For interest, I have included Penrite Vantage semisynth 15w40. This can occasionally be had for around $20.

Penrite mower sae 30 and Gulf western mower SAE30 are also included in this comparo

The main things I consider to be of important for our application are resistance to shear, ZDDP zinc, viscosity at 40c and 100c and sulphated ash level.

Zinc protects flat tappet engines from wear and sulphated ash helps neutralise the acids which build in the oil from the relatively loose build tolerances (cough Briggs haha)

Armed with a few months of reading, I recently sent the oil companies some emails regarding the ZDDP levels. Here are my results (compiled with infor from MSDS and PI sheets)

Castrol Ultraclean
Visc @100 14.5
Visc @40 111
ZDDP ppm 870
Sulphated ash % 0.9


Nulon
Visc @100 15
Visc @40 121
ZDDP ppm 1300
Sulphated ash % 0.8


GW
Visc @100 15
Visc @40 107
ZDDP ppm 870
Sulphated ash % 1.2


Valvoline
Visc @100 15
Visc @40 116
ZDDP ppm 1000
Sulphated ash % (not shown, but my calc approx 0.85)


Penrite
Visc @100 15
Visc @40 104
ZDDP ppm 1050
Sulphated ash % 1.2


GW sae30
Visc @100 11
Visc @40 95
ZDDP ppm 1000
Sulphated ash % 1.1


Penrite SAE30
Visc @100 11
Visc @40 90
ZDDP ppm 1117
Sulphated ash % 0.67



Please note – if you purchased the GW 15w40 before july, there is a good chance you have the version complying with API SL (more zinc). The label states ‘Zinc enhanced’.
This should be around the 1200 mark.

My opinion on valvoline is yet to become clear - I haven't used it long enough to see the shear stability. 4 bottles were bought in July, so I will know soon enough
Likewise, GW used to be API SL and very good, but I am not in a position to comment on the new SN.

I will personally stick with Nulon - my 40L stash of ultraclean won't go into anymore mowers. Although I wouldn't hesitate to get the new SN GW for flushing oil.

Having used the Castrol for a while now, it definitely gets the sludge out fast, but seems to have lower shear resistance long term. After 15+ mows, the quantums tend to burn oil on start up.

I have no problems with it in water cooled engines and my Hyundai runs perfectly on it, but air cooled put significant stress on oils. My remaining 40l will be going into the Tuscon (4ish L per change) and Aurion (6l ish)


Overall, flushing oil makes no difference – it isn’t in there for long enough to do anything anyway.

Plus, anything is better than the sludge normally found in briggs sumps.

So, in summary, for Briggs:

All this is probably useless information

Nicely compiled and well put Tyler. I personally also use the oils that are on sale from Autobarn and most often are all of the 15/40 variety.
To date, i have had no issues with any of them and as you said, "anything is better than the sludge normally found in briggs sumps."
Admittedly. i like to use a 10/30 for hondas and use monograde 30 for any briggs that may still be within the warranty period, although these types of services are far and few between.
Cheers, Ted

Hi Tyler,
good effort there. Many years ago when I was heavily playing with Toranas and had had a couple of rebuilt motors, in mine I was using Penrite and I did an oil change to another type (sorry can't remember what it was but it was in a red bottle, some American brand) anyway the upshot was as soon as I took it for a drive the temp went up 10 degrees. I went back to Autobarn and asked why this was the case and they had no answer. With my wifes Torana with the new built motor I could not cool it, tried everything we could think of, but she was unable to drive it on any hot day because the temp instantly went off the dial. I had had a huge radiator made for it and was even considering getting another made to fit down the back behind the diff. A mate was a distributor at the time for Bitron and he asked me to come around because he believed he could fix it. Very sceptical of any of these snake oil things I brought a bottle home and it was a stinking hot day, put the bottle in and told my wife to drive it around the block which is about 10ks. She protested saying it would blow up but I told her I didn't care anymore because I was over it and just do it. She drove around the block came back and I asked her what the temp was like and it was fine, so I said go around the block again and that was the end of the overheating problems with that motor, till my son took over the car and a blown heater hose was the end of that motor. He still drives that Torana today, but the motor now in it is nowhere near as good as the one he cooked. Bitron was amazing stuff but like all really good products somebody buys it up and shuts it down because it may be impacting their business

Hi BT

I also keep some 10w30 for occasional use. Autobarn have some really good specials regularly, only pain is you can't click and collect. I normally ring ahead to check stock.


Norm, very good anecdote.

Oil might have been redline.
I believe Bitron is still available as a friend swears by their diesel additive. I am also very skeptical of snake oils, but occasionally you find one that does exactly what it says on the bottle.

https://savefuelaustralia.com/ is who sell it now - looks like they charge a kings ransom though

Shame about the cooling hose, was it a worked 308?

Hi Norm,

I would also like to know what engine the Torana had, 202 red ? ,was it running LPG?






Cheers
Max.

Starfire 4 or Opel 4? haha

I heard it is harder to cook a LPG car - something to do with the convertor vaporising.

From what Norm as posted before - I still reckon worked 308

I had lots of problems with the standard LPG systems running lean with Holdens and the motors would overheat,
didn't stop the problem until I made my own 700 cfm LPG setup ,this was before GasResearch .

I had a VS Commodore -T4 Lexcen 3800 with Impco mixer set up which kept backfiring if you weren't ginger with the throttle. Drove me batty and my local installer rerouted a couple of hoses which stopped it for a while before it eventually reoccurred.
Then a guy on another forum I frequented told me of a cabbie with a VX Commie who gapped his plugs to 0.8mm which he claimed stopped this well known issue on his car. When I did it to mine it worked like a charm and also improved throttle response no end. It had a retarded feeling from a standing start before I regapped the plugs. Made for an enjoyable driving experience with decent fuel economy of 12-13L of gas per 100km in mixed freeway and urban conditions.

G'day folks,
Ahh, the Starfire 4 - what a poorly cobbled up POS that engine was!

Wrt LPG cars and coolant loss, what happens is when the coolant level gets low, the LPG vapouriser is one of the first items to 'run dry'. As it's essentially a heat exchanger, it then freezes up and cuts off the fuel supply to the motor. Which then won't run, naturally.

I've saved more than one dual fuel motor, by telling the owner that they had to check their coolant level as a matter of urgency, when it would start but not run on LPG.

Agreed.

I can bring quite a bit of professional expertise to bear here [lubricant chemistry and used oil analysis background, which CyberJack can confirm - he's seen a pic of my 'certificate wall' ] .

Penrite is my go-to brand, as I've had a few discussions with their technical people, and they really do know their stuff. Their corporate culture is also much less 'bean-counter' driven than the 'seven sisters' companies - the oil industry majors such as BP, ExxonMobil, Shell et al.

What this means is, their product quality is given priority, over saving a few cents per litre in raw material costs.

In my last service for the little Laser 1.6 I used up leftovers from three different brands of 15w40 oil, including about 600ml of Penrite as well as 500ml of 20w50 I had stored in a small power steer fluid bottle!
I did this to save the remaining 4 liters of Penrite for the V8 Fairlane's next oil change and hold out for the next sale.

The information about Penrite is good to know Gadge. I use their automatic transmission fluids (both dex 3 and full synth Dex 4 which also meets Hyundai specs), and NLGI II HTB grease significantly.

I also use their Chain and bar oil in my saws and on foam filters. The only issue I have is it is a very thick oil (perfect in air filters) and won't feed properly in my ryobi pole pruner (in which I now run 50/50 15w40 and penrite bar oil).

Their full synthetic MC2-st 2 stroke oil is also excellent - JASO FD for maximum lubricity, no smoke or port blocking. I used the semisynth version before this - also very good.
At $35 for 1L it isn't cheap, but for $26ish on special it is better than most out there.

Plus I put Penrite coolant into my car when I did the full service

If anything, I should use Penrite motor oil as well


Penrite was the only company who had all the information compiled above available on their website for all to see.

Castrol and Nulon returned my email within a day, GW took 2 emails to get a response, and Valvoline took 3 tries and eventually a 'facebook' email (message app) to get a reply.

MF - you use 15w40 Vantage premium mineral correct (from last memory)? Haven't seen anything recently unfortunately. Its always semisynth vantage on special.

Probably doesn't make much difference due to the lax synthetic definitions after Mobil v Castrol lawsuit

For many years we had 14 Toranas living here and they were a combination of all engine sorts. Probably 8 hatches and 6 sedans and it was a very busy time keeping them all sorted. I ran all of them LPG because this allowed me to get around the 27A emission problems, chuck any motor in and it would comply. The motor that caused the big fitment issue was the Chev due to it being impossible to get the 10mm exhaust clearance on the rear of the upper control arm. Can't imagine how many times I lifted that motor up and down removing the exhaust, modify it put it back in and repeat, could have been as many as 70 times before I finally gave up and flattened that area to get the clearance. Everyone that has been fitted in a Torana has this issue but aside from that what a beautiful car to drive. As for the 2 rebuilt motors, they were built by different specialist engine builders, not the mass rebuilt off the shelf ones from H&M or Repco, both 202's and running on LPG. The motor I had in my daily driver I had pulled out in frustration and it was sitting on the garage floor and a mate was here who also had a few hot sixes over the time, and I was so wild with this motor that I picked up the sledge hammer and was about to put it through the block, but he convinced me not to do it. Thankfully a few weeks later I put the Bitron in Jeans car and solved her problem so I put the other motor back in my car, gave it a Bitron treatment and that motor never gave me one ounce of an overheating problem ever again

Hi Norm,

Yep, panel clearance for the exhaust was always an issue, on fitting Chev V8 conversions to small-bodied cars.

Actually, the worst car I ever saw in this regard, was an XF Falcon.

Which had had a Ford 429CI OHC V8 race motor shoehorned into it. Required serious panel mods to the front end strut towers, to fit the 'zorst headers. That truly was one scarily quick car! It was street registered, too.

Now there's the Barra six. Little to no alterations required to the body.

Hi Gadge,
The whole problem with fitting Chevs into Aussie cars is there is too little clearance caused by the starter motor being on the right hand side which is where we have our steering column goes. I even tried getting a left hand starter motor from Rod Hadfield but I couldn't even fit that because it hit the K frame

Hi Tyler,
I hear good things about 'Mechanic in a Bottle' fuel additive, too.

Your comment above reminds me of a comment a senior oil analysis industry consultant once made; he likened the oil additive game to a tank full of sharks, with a thin layer of snake oil floating on top!

Hi Norm,
Yep, no such problem in a Landcruiser; this is my oldie:



Carter AFB 4-barrel carby, plus Impco LPG. Basically, built as a truck motor - 4-bolt main '010' block, small port heads, RV cam grind.

Yep that gas system was too small for my 253 ,good for economy though ,it leans out at 2000 to 3000rpm.

I always see people using way too small air filter ,way too small carby ,gas mixer ,gas converter and gas lock off.

Impco setups are actually very tune-able, including avoidance of leaning out.

However, they need to be set up using a chassis dyno [and an exhaust gas analyser], to get them spot on, with a tech who really knows his stuff backwards.

G'day all,

Yes I agree Gadge but the converter above looks like a Model L Impco converter the maximum rating of this
converter is 200 Hp ,I see people using this type of setup on a motor that would have 300 Hp running on petrol
so no amount of tuning is going to give you that lost 100 Hp ,I've been down that road and paid for dyno tuning
and it's a waste of money when you don't have the correct sized gas system to start with ,that's why I've seen
so many people remove the gas system from their vehicle.

The maximum CFM of the 300A Mixer is 432 and I would usually use a LPG carby that was 30 percent bigger
than what you would use running on petrol.

I would also doubt that air filter could flow enough CFM ,from memory I think the
standard filter flows 295 CFM.

Most formulas will tell you 600 to about 610 CFM for a 6000 RPM 350 engine on petrol.

A lot of the early Impco setups were good for fuel economy but lost a lot of horse power.

Cheers
Max.