OutdoorKing Repair Forum Forums The History Forum The Old Soap Box RESPONSE to Cooper Engines

Hi CJ

Is that the same engine that's on those WW2 nearly all cast iron generators?
If so I do not think it's that dangerous
That little engine would hardly pull your hat off
I guess it could pull about 10 amps at 12 v
I shudder to think how it would go on a mower
Mine ran well Easy to start with its electric start
I still have it somewhere. It did not go well after it was dunked a few times on.the front of my old LandCruiser
Very heavy but on those days no body knew what GVM was.
All the best
Jeff

G'day Jeff
I'm not sure what article you are referring to in the History forum ...
I think it is the Cooper engine ...

My best guess is that small WW2 generators made here were Briggs & Stratton powered.
These were made under licence , and manufacture continued post WW2.

Cheers
-------------------
Jack

Thanks Jack

Yes it was the Cooper thread


I have always thought it was a Cooper generator
Briggs and Stratton eh. Probably is there is no ID left on it

Very heavy with a cast iron fuel tank. Pretty small engine but nice and quiet

Ok another myth busted.

Thanks

Jeff

Hi Jeff
Things are not always simple.
The Johnson Ironhorse (aka Cooper) certainly was used on small gen sets during
the war years ... it's just that I have no records of that occurring here.

Could it have occurred here? YES!
The great Knock & Kirby was selling Ironhorse 4-strokes pre-war, before
Cooper made their licenced engines here post-war.
[Note the reference to 'lighting plants']

AUS production was strictly controlled during the war years, with
many makers reverting to war-time production.



When I say 'small gen set' I mean portable - no C.I. fuel tanks.
Below, I show an AUS Amplion gen set, and the USA's Iron Horse.
Both Johnson and B&S made complete gen sets in the USA!

I guess those war days were desperate times.
It explains why USA makers could licence manufacture of their engines
outside their own North American factories.

It's a great question you ask, Jeff.
I wish I had a better answer.

Cheers
-------------------------
Jack

Hi Jack,

Mine is certainly the Johnson Iron horse.

Is that the Johnson of Outboard motor fame?

So it is a Cooper is it,?

They were pretty common
I even bought spare parts somewhere once. Might even have them still.

All the best
Jeff

Hi Jeff
That's a great story you tell!

Yes, I think the early Ironhorse 4-strokes were probably from the Johnson Bros Motor Co.
Although, OMC clearly developed the designs after their 1935 takeover.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnson_Outboards
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outboard_Marine_Corporation

I guess they are an early example of the 'slant' single cylinder engines
that are now so popular - and ubiquitous.

I wish I knew more!

-------------------------
Jack

Thanks Jack

Very interesting.

I doubt that mine is pre 1935 so I guess its an OMC Johnson Iron Horse. I thought OMC only made 2 strokes. I did once have an early 60's 3HP Johnson outboard. It ran very smoothly as well.


The generator ran beautifully before it got dunked and I did get it going again afterwards but I must not have gotten rid of all the water. They had electric start driven by reversing the current through the generator so it acted as a starter. Very good.

I notice in your links that they are only 5/8 HP. I would concur with that - not much power but enough to charge a battery if you were not in a hurry.

What is the Cooper connection? A made under licence deal or something for Australia. Like Kirby Lauson.

As I said before, I think that engine is too small for a mower except maybe a 10 inch cut or similar. There may have been bigger models of course.

All the best
Jeff

Hi Jeff
Many thanks for the questions.

Unraveling this story has kept me busy for years.

I did say that I thought they were licenced copies here:-
https://www.outdoorking-forum.com.au/forum/u...cooper-rv-pt-4-cycle-engines-c1940s.html

However, it's worth considering the Sunbeam Corporation and its USA connections.
I touched on this here: -
https://www.outdoorking-forum.com.au/forum/u...per-rotary-slasher-c1954.html#Post100320

I feel your analogy with James Kirby is appropriate.
It was only through considerable research that I discovered Kirby's considerable
links with USA businesses - and he was a director with Tecnico, our first rotary!

It was only through research that I discovered Kirbys supplying Victa components!

Also note that Kirby's first small engine was a ... 2-stroke 'Ironhorse'!: -
https://www.outdoorking-forum.com.au/forum/u...a1-the-first-kirby-lawnmower-engine.html

Coopers is interesting in that the AUS operation clearly had some autonomy from
its controlling USA owner. However, that is not so unusual.

The Cooper engine was also sold here as a Marino.
I have discussed this here: -
https://www.outdoorking-forum.com.au/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/58204/marino-products-who-were-they.html
[note the Ironhorse gen set and the Marino firefighter. I am comfortable in saying
that the Gen was a Cooper import, and the Firefighter was a Marino job.
This was an example of cross-branding between Cooper Engineering and Marino Products]

[Note the 1937 gen set was a genuine Johnson USA import Ironhorse. My best guess
is that the importer was Coopers, not Marino]

So .. I've got much more work to do to understand the intricacies
of all this. There seems so much interbreeding, and incestuous
relationships in manufacturing.

And so much will remain private - because they were private contractual
relationships when created. Only good research may uncover the true story,
but only if there is a trail to be found.

So, I've got more work to do.
I know this is a complex issue ...

Cheers
--------------------------
Jack

p.s. sorry for long-winded response.

Hi Jack

Most interesting.


I found this ad on Gumtree.

https //www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/north-haven/collectables/vintage-coopers-stationary-engine/1228542081

I think this a generator although its described as a Cooper Stationary engine. In one of the photos I think I can see the brand."Tadco".

Its similar but not the same as mine. Mine has a big fan on the generator end but this has a pulley or so I think. This one seems to have a smaller fuel tank. Mine has an ammeter too.

Jack do you know if all these engines had the integral cast iron fuel tank that forms the base to the engine?

Mine does and so does this one. There are other Coopers on Gumtree that are much larger and very different.

Very interesting

Jeff

Jack do you know if all these engines had the integral cast iron fuel tank that forms the base to the engine?
G'day Jeff

By far the best source of Cooper in AUS must be Ron Wiley's
brilliant article on the great Ozwrenches website.

https://ozwrenches.com/cooper.htm#11

I hope this helps.
-------------------------
Jack

Hi Jack,

That is an excellent site.

I have either a Cooper or Johnson iron horse.generator.

I think the Coopers on mowers (the OP's rreason for this thread) would have been the bigger ones not this little one. It would run a small shearing machine but that's about all.

Cooper had many many engines even Ronaldson Tippert and Kirby.

Interesting the tie up with Sunbeam and even Victa eventually.

A wonderful store of knowledge.

Jeff

G'day Jeff. Yep, Ron Wiley is a great historian.

Note the Cooper logo in 'flourish style' seems to precede the Sunbeam one.
Also note the suggestion I have made between Sunbeam and Victa before
Sunbeam acquired Victa mowers. There was some private relationship.

https://www.outdoorking-forum.com.au/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/76657/sunbeam-lawnkeeper-2-4-c1967.html

Cheers
-------------------------
Jack