OutdoorKing Repair Forum Forums Repairs and Maintenance Questions on Engines Questions On Victa Two Stroke Engines Victa G4/LM float needle clip

Hi Carbymaster, I thought I would start a new thread as the previous one you started was getting cluttered with too much other talk. I have made up one clip using your measurements but I made it a bit longer because the first one I made to the measurements made it a bit short to reach the clip fully. It is very difficult to get it to work, largely due to the short float travel. It is difficult to get the needle into the seat tube requiring very delicate manipulation and because of this I doubt too many people would master this because it is very hard to get it right.
The way I have it set at the moment is with the float sitting in the open position the clip is sitting almost horizontal and coming straight out from the center of the float pivot pin. In the needle closed position the clip holding the needle is probably 3 or 4 degrees above horizontal. This can vary depending on the depth of the needle seat and the variations in the floats. To achieve these settings I'm sure anything you had made would require tweaking to work and this I feel would be beyond many people, it takes a lot of concentration and I have been using a magnifying glass so I can see what I am doing

Hi NormK,

Thanks for creating a new thread. It's getting cluttered. To focus mainly on the first topic helps everyone to refer to the thread in the future. Yes I understand it is difficult to install the clip with your method and it's likely it won't pull the needle when float is fully opened. It is really difficult to hold and insert the needle into the clip when float is already installed. I suggest you create one again same with my prototype and method of installation. With my prototype, I have the clip in horizontal position almost 4 degrees from the center of the pivot pin with the lever is 0.1mm gap (not touching) from the back of the float. At full float open position, the clip is almost on -5 degrees from the center of the pivot pin. This will surely pulls the needle but with this angle, you need to install the needle with the clip first without the float then pull the clip at -30 degrees to insert the float. I made the material with 0.2mm brass to allow the clip to flex during installation. I might thinking of creating a YouTube clip how to install this clip as this is very tricky to install and the clip can't be made rigid. Could you please create a link to previous thread for reference on images and details of the lever.


Cheers,
TheCarbyMaster

Hi,

Most interesting. I'm guessing this clip only attachs the needle to the float and should not have any effect on the closing of the needle causing flooding. What a wonderful idea.

All the best
Jeff

I will have to get my son to transfer the post with the details of the latest design. I have been using tin from the lid of a coffee tin, the first one I made was from colorbond sheet but it was too rigid to allow me to get the needle into the hole. I have a roll of shim brass here but can't locate it at the moment.The tin will work fine because there is plenty of oil in the fuel and it is quite flexible. It is tedious work but if it solves this problem then it is the final nail in fixing these problematic carbys that when working are probably one of the best carbys ever made
Carbymaster I'm not with you 100% about getting the needle into place with the clip, I have to force it a bit to get the tip to enter and then I can press the clip to where it needs to be, then I can clip the float on. Brilliant idea, if only Victa had come up with it, but then I guess we wouldn't be fixing them now

Another good thing about the clip is that once it is assembled it holds the needle and float together so it doesn't all fall apart while you are trying to re-assemble it, just like all the other carbies that use a needle and float design

Hi NormK,

That's what I found after fitting the clip that it also serve a different purpose to hold the float and needle together. I can't count how many times I dropped the floats and lost the plastic needles back then. Much more this time we can't afford to drop the Viton Tip in the ground or grass which is more dearer. Now with this clip, you can just install the assembly with one hand without worrying to drop the float and needle. Good thing for everyone to stay tuned on the main topic for future reference as what Tyler pointed out. If possible we can migrate some of our discussions from the previous thread relating to the design of this clop. Everyone's contribution to this design will be considered in the formal design, development and manufacturing of the clip. What's the best name or short description of this design?

Cheers,
TheCarbyMaster

I would call it a Joel clip.

Hahaha, This is the first time I've laugh reading ODK forum. No, I don't want to carry my name. Hey Norm, we might divert the topic to something else again.

I'm all sad again my clip is only half working, I can't get the needle to open enough to get enough fuel flow, there is so little room to work with, the floats have only minimal travel, it all looks and is working fine out of the housing but I have to somehow get the clip closer to the top of the float so I can get a bit more travel on the needle

Hi NormK,

Don't be sad because mine is working fine with at least 15 degrees travel which pulls the needle out before emptying the reservoir. Make sure that fork is 85 - 90 degrees of the lever end. I would like to make another prototype for you to refer or test and send it to you by mail. Please text me your address.

Cheers,
TheCarbyMaster

I don't think the problem I have is with the clip the end of the needle is sitting on the float but it is still not allowing the needle to drop enough. I will try this clip on another cap and float tomorrow to see if that is the cause

Ok so with a new primer cap,new float,new needle it starts first pull, my problem now is would it have worked this way without the clip fitted as many do? I had another cap and needle fitted on this mower and it was starting first pull anyway. The problem here if the clip solves the problem you will not know you might have had a problem in the first place, so difficult to prove. Variances in float travel seem to be a major factor and there is nothing that can be done to overcome this. The issue I had with the previous primer cap and float I was not able to see that the float was causing the issue because by looking at it it seemed to have enough travel and appeared to be pulling the needle down enough but it obviously wasn't

Kicking myself at the moment, set up a carby and it would only fire and run for about 2 seconds.Tried this half a dozen times and tapping on the carby did not help. The needle I used was from my reject container and it was obviously sticking. Stupidly I took the needle out put it back in the reject container and fitted a new one which worked perfectly. Now I am annoyed because I should have fitted the needle clip to this needle to see if it solved the problem with it. Sadly there is 9 reject needles in the container and I have no idea which one it is

Don't fret Norm, try each one until it fails and then you can test it out. Think of it as a setback.

Mf you have no idea how difficult it is for me to just change a needle at the moment as I can hardly walk so you can understand my disappointment at mixing the needle up.I was thinking that it may have been that the float may not have been dropping enough to allow fuel to flow but the fact that by swapping the needle, same primer cap and float, the needle solved the problem. I am thinking of grinding the end back on the next one that I have this issue with to get the float to lift higher to shut off and therefore travel further down so the needle can drop half a mm further down and see if that helps. Then I still have to deal with the needles among the rejects that are not shutting off.

Ok so now I have had maybe some success with these needles. Last night I filed off the pointy end that sits on the float, leaving the groove for the proposed spring clip to sit in if needed, probably filed off 1mm at the maximum. I pulled out a mower this morning and it would not start, been sitting there for a month or so. Tried a dozen time to see if it would start, nothing. I fitted one of the filed back needles and it started first pull. Is this a fix, I don't know? Is it a fluke, I don't know? Will it still work after sitting for a while, I don't know. I now have 9 of these needles I have filed and they will be going in every mower I build to see if this is a permanent fix.

Hi NormK,

I've been following this thread and reading your comments. I really appreciate for all the efforts you've done despite you can't hardly walk. I'm just trying to get my head around of what you've done especially to visualise the work without attachment photos. As I've understood, first you have this faulty needle or sticky needle but you haven't tried to fit it with the spring clip you made and instead replaced with new one. Second, you filed the needle crown on a non-working mower for the provision of the spring clip to slide in and the mower runs first pull. We knew it doesn't make sense as the filing of the crown doesn't change the float contact, travel and closing the valve. As you said, it could be a fluke. There are few things that might stick the needle during installation of the primer cap. One is the pressure of your finger holding the float from coming off during installation which pushes the needle harder than the normal voyance compression of the float. One thing you could experiment to reproduce the effect without waiting for the mower to sit for a while is to sacrifice one carburetor fitted with Briggs inline fuel tap on the bottom chamber. Thread the tap into the lowest part of the chamber where the float is setting with flashed inside not to obstruct the float drop. Initially when fuel chamber is full, the float will push the needle close and it likely to stick the needle in. This Briggs fuel tap will allow the chamber fuel to drain to see if the needle will drop with and without the spring clip.

Cheers,
TheCarbyMaster

By filing the end off the needle it is allowing the needle to come further away from the seat allowing fuel to flow. I'm wondering that if the clearance isn't great enough and the viton tip, swells a fraction that when the float sits against the carby body in the fully open position there is just not enough room for the needle to drop enough to allow the fuel to flow. I have just tried another one that I haven't started for some time and it won't start, fitted a filed needle and it still won't start. This is on an unmodified carby so I will pull that and see where I go from there. Problem I see with fitting a tap on the bottom of the carby the plastic is so thin there whatever I did it would have to be just glued on to the outside of the body but I will have a look at that idea. I have a couple carbies here that I have been unable to get to work for some unknown reason so trashing them is no problem

Hi NormK,

Yes filing the crown is the same thing as pushing the seat further in by 1mm provided that the float won't hit the body when closing the valve. Best not to file the crown tip. After you've talked about clearance, deflection or float travel, last night looking closely on the different floats, I realised that the floats that we manufactured is slightly shorter than the genuine or any aftermarket floats means more clearance, deflection or travel to allow the needle to drop further down. Maybe this is also the reason why I didn't encounter that sort of problem on all my repairs. Hope you still have the sample float I sent you to try.

Cheers,
TheCarbyMaster

Hi NormK,

With regards to the mounting of the tap, I suggest you to put JB-Weld around the bottom part. The same glue I used to fix the cracked plastic fuel tank of my 2-stroke utility mower (handle mounted fuel tank) 4 years ago. Cracked due to aged and handle vibration. We use this mower every time and since then I don't have any problem. If someone is interested on this fuel tank fix, I can start a new thread for this and detail the fix.

Cheers,
TheCarbyMaster

Yes I still have the sample floats and I have boxes of the original floats, I did notice that there is a slight difference in the floats you sent but I doubt this is going to solve the problem but as you say you didn't encounter this problem.
With the second one today that would not start with the original viton tip I fitted a couple of months ago and after fitting the shortened needle this morning and still not starting, I pulled the carby off, modified it put it back with the shortened needle, same primer cap and float and it started first pull. What solved the problem I can't say. The test now is to leave these 2 mowers sit with a tag on them so they don't get mixed up with the others and leave them sit for a month or so and then see if they will start up without issues

Having said that I haven't encountered this sort of problem doesn't mean that sticking needle won't happen overtime after the mower is sitting iddle for a while. I haven't heard from customers or warranty return since. The needle has already shown an issue (sticky) when placed manually outside the assembly that's why I develop the spring clip to prevent this foreseeable fault condition from happening and also to fix the current issue. I wish Norm you fitted with the spring clip you made before modifying the carby and install a drain tap to check if fuel is filling up the chamber and needle is closing the valve.

I will make a fitting for the bottom of the carb and JB Weld it in and give it a try tomorrow with the clip. Problem is now I'm not sure if I have a sticking needle here at the moment.Modifying the carby should not alter the fact that the motor would not start, that is just altering the cam profile. I know it was a lack of fuel because a squirt of starter fluid fired the motor instantly. I do know of one that is coming back with a broken pull cord so that is obviously one with a stuck needle and they just keep pulling, just not sure when he is bringing that one back

The mower that I believe will have a stuck needle is coming back tomorrow. My plan is to fit one of the needles I have filed in a new primer cap and float and I keep the assembly from the mower I believe is sticking and I can experiment with it here and see where this leads me

Great! Try with the spring clip first and see how it goes. Very interesting to hear your experiments.

What I have decided to do is to swap over the carby complete so I can get this bloke on his way then I have the carb body and and float etc intact so I can play with it without being under pressure to get it working

Definitely a good idea. Install a spring clip on his replacement carby. "Hoping" you will be waiting years before you hear him again.

He is not getting the spring, I will set up another carby with a shortened needle for him and then I hope to not hear from him for years, I want his carby so I can fit the spring and test it here myself over a bit of time to see what the result is