Started to tear down the groomer machine yesterday. The kermit green is going and I haven't decided what will go down instead. It's a working machine so it won't be a showroom finish but I still want to do the machine justice as it's served me very well for 24 years as a mower and this past season as groomer.
First step after tearing it down is to get rid of all the rust and old paint and I've just modified an old PC power supply to have a dabble with electrolysis. From what I've read, 12v is the way to go and my PCU will give me around 10A so it should be a 24 hour turnaround on the first piece - the handlebar cover plate from my red mower. Another PCU I have will give me 16A so I'll give it a run over Easter as parts should be in the bath for shorter periods and I can monitor it between fishing trips.
Question for Bon_Scott - I currently have my anodes connected in a row, with nothing connecting the first plate to the last. Should I "close" the loop? Thanks.
Photos show the tub outside the back shed, the converted PCU and the finished part. Very happy with the result so more is going in the tub..
Groomer is coming apart well. A few of the bolts are tough but patience is winning. The clutch was fairly tight on the motor shaft, but again patience and pressure saw the separation. Made a few rookie errors in pulling it down, mainly with the order with which certain bits are to come off. I don't mind making a few errors as I tend to learn better that way.
One of the twin rails is showing signs of fatigue (powder coat crack) and I'll know more when I get the paint off.
What's the best method to degrease all the pieces? Pulling it down really shows you the bits that don't get cleaned when wiping the unit down after use and I need to give everything a bath before I can see how much rust is around.
The rest of the week will be electrolysis baths and cleaning the pieces for a few coats of primer. Might get to polish the nuts & bolts too.
Honestly not sure this is going to work for you as you are dealing with Powder Coating and not paint. Also don't run the reel through the bath as you'll change the structure of the steel by introducing Hydrogen Embrittlement to it and as such then rendering it pretty useless and it could even shatter during the grinding process. Blasting is the best way for reels.
As far as the electricity in the bath is concerned all you have to do is connect all the anodes in series as the loop is then created with the job hanging in the bath and the electrons flowing from the job to the anodes.
Cheers, BB.
I live a 24 Hour lifestyle, but every now and again I seem to fall asleep, well at least that's what my wife tells me.
The bath is only for rust and appreciate the tip about the reel. I recall an earlier post of yours talking about powder coat not being removed with electrolysis so I've planned to bring the pieces into work as our metalwork fabricator has offered to help out. He's got "everything except a blaster" so I'll give him a piece and see what he can do.
I understand that it's for rust removal as that's all that I've used it for as well, but any process where electricity flows through a solution via a piece of metal will suffer from Hydrogen Embrittlement and as such requires to be heat treated (stress relieved) so that the metal returns back to it's pre treated state.
Yes sadly Kermit Green and Rover Red finishes are all powder coated and not painted.
Cheers, BB.
I live a 24 Hour lifestyle, but every now and again I seem to fall asleep, well at least that's what my wife tells me.
The weather this weekend was too good to waste and some other activities took priority - like visiting family and catching some dinner....Despite the distractions, I managed some progress this long weekend. The clutch half next to the engine is giving me grief and has not succumbed to my persuasion as yet and continues to stay attached to the engine shaft. Some parts have a few kinks etc so they'll come with me to work this week to be straightened before hopefully priming next weekend..
Making inroads into the groomer tidy up. It's making me think about what I need to get done for the mower unit and the more I get done, the more I'm thinking of swapping the 2 units. Mine is so much "cleaner" than Big Red - for example: the roller shaft is worn by a few mm on each end of Big Red but zero on the unit formerly known as Kermit. I really won't know till both are torn down and lucky that can't be far away. Did anyone else notice the weather got just a few degrees cooler from Friday night?
I guess it all depends on where in this big island you are. But yes it's finally starting to cool down in Adelaide also. In actual fact they are talking of rain in the next few days, but I'm not holding my breath as the last time it was forecast all we got was a bit of nuisance stuff on the car windscreen that left dirt witness marks behind.
Yes "Big Red" as I originally felt has spent a lot of time in the hands of some Council git who couldn't give a toss over it and worked it hard. Luckily you've taken possession of it and will be able to give it some TLC that it well deserves.
I must ask have you already secured a grooming reel ? or are you still in the market for one of those ?
Cheers, BB.
I live a 24 Hour lifestyle, but every now and again I seem to fall asleep, well at least that's what my wife tells me.
Grooming reel was bought last September - did a bit of a post on it, nothing too exciting. Have used it a few times and really like what it can do. An original scarify teased out a lot of trash and the thatch canopy and a number of times since by raising the height a little and just letting it pluck out stray runners and control the thatch. Photo below is a part of the current disaster zone.
The tell tale sign is the additional hole in the side of the frame to accomodate the set-back of the sole plate. I'll have a go at making a new deflector shield as it was a rust ridden write-off. I've got about 5 months to get it done and can always get one from the online shop here.. Might wait till I tear down Big Red as I'm sure to need more replacement bits (front axle for example) and probably best to get them all at the same time.
Having a crack at sanding the front roller as opposed to replacing it. An initial clean with 80 grit went well over the weekend so tonight I'll run over with 120, then 180 and depending upon the finish a final 240 or 320 should be enough. It will get scuffed up through use so I'm not going further than that. I'm also not keen to open up and split the rear roller with all the bits and pieces that make it work. I'll leave it till last and just try and clean out the crud as best I can. Later in the week I'll work on the handlebars which are in very good shape and the few rust spots I could see have lifted off with a gentle wire wheel. Need to be careful of using lower revs otherwise it can scratch the chrome itself.
Here's a link to what I purchased to replace an untidy front roller tube. This one is spot on the correct sizing to use with the original style end caps.
Thanks for the link BB - thats a decent price that will save me a ton of time too!
Normally I'd visit our metal guys and see what they have but we haven't needed much Stainless of late. I thought about using some black steel I eyed when I was last there and even toyed with a compressed rubber alternative. In reality whilst I think it would be nice to dabble with alternates, my first restore should stick to what I set out for (a cosmetic upgrade) and I have plenty of time to work on any number of potential outcomes and so much more to learn from you guys here on the forum!
Groomer reel came from Trident Mowing in West AU. $600. 30 tungsten tip blades, spacers, bearings, key and freighted to me. When looking around I thought it was a fair price and by memory the other guys in Victoria were asking north of $800.
It is barely visible in the above photo with the engine - the clutch half has refused to budge and I'm not confident enough to strong-arm it further for fear of breaking something. Do you have any tips or maybe just leave it and paint it "as is"? Would a sprocket puller have a chance?
Yes sometimes the clutch half on the engine side can be a mongrel to get off the PTO shaft. If you have access to a larger size 3 jaw gear puller that will do the trick as that's what I always use if one won't come off by hand. Patience is the key with these things.
So the reel came from Lincoln in Perth. I've looked at his but as everything there's a healthy profit margin worked into it. I think I'll end up making mine up from an old expired 17 inch reel with all the blades and segments removed thus just using the centre shaft only and building it up from that.
Cheers, BB
I live a 24 Hour lifestyle, but every now and again I seem to fall asleep, well at least that's what my wife tells me.
The engine came into work with me today and I'll let the metal boys have a go and told them I'm not concerned about the overtime...
I bought the groomer reel from Lincoln after talking to Cameron P about wanting one. Once my 2 units are restored I'll get Cameron to service and grind & set them up properly.
I'm nowhere near your experience or skills and not comfortable with creating my own. You're comment about margins is spot-on and never say never eh? I think I'd like a less aggressive groomer with 'fins' and not tungsten blades. But before I go down that rabbit hole my question is - will Winter Green Couch respond to more grooming or am I wasting time and money?
I wouldn't concern myself whether it's Winter Green, Santa Ana or Windsor Green, It's all couch and it works the same way. It's a regenerative type spieces and the more you give it a hard time the more it will regenerate and grow to survive.
Cam's a top block and I've bought bucket loads from him over time. He looks after his customers really well.
The principles of setting one of these machines up is not rocket science but does require a bit of patience and thought. Once you've mastered it you'd never pay someone as much as they are asking for it ever again and thus you get far more economical use from your machine. It's the maintenance that has many folks walking away from these types over mowers in the long run. It's a skill you'd develop and thus once you got it you'll never lose it. Bit like riding a bike I guess.
Cheers, BB.
I live a 24 Hour lifestyle, but every now and again I seem to fall asleep, well at least that's what my wife tells me.
I wouldn't concern myself whether it's Winter Green, Santa Ana or Windsor Green, It's all couch and it works the same way. It's a regenerative type spieces and the more you give it a hard time the more it will regenerate and grow to survive.
Cam's a top block and I've bought bucket loads from him over time. He looks after his customers really well.
The principles of setting one of these machines up is not rocket science but does require a bit of patience and thought. Once you've mastered it you'd never pay someone as much as they are asking for it ever again and thus you get far more economical use from your machine. It's the maintenance that has many folks walking away from these types over mowers in the long run. It's a skill you'd develop and thus once you got it you'll never lose it. Bit like riding a bike I guess.
Cheers, BB.
I live a 24 Hour lifestyle, but every now and again I seem to fall asleep, well at least that's what my wife tells me.
Cam’s Father and I work together, so I reckon he’ll easily forgive me for bringing the units to him if I can’t do it myself!
You’ve convinced me to give it a go. The groomer is going to be easy I’m guessing so I’ll just have to take more time when doing the mower. Cam will do the sharpen, but mind you, that $80 price Bon Scott got recently is looking mightily attractive.....
The boys didn’t have time to pull the clutch off the PTO today so I hope they have time before the weekend..
Unfortunately at times the PTO shaft gets some type of burring up by either the cotter not being done up tight enough and thus with a bit of looseness it will create wear and burr up the sides where the cotter pin touches the shaft, also with the later clutch assemblies that utilise the two pointed grub screws that dig into the shaft and create high spots around the points will also make it hard to simply slide the clutch half off when required.
Member Bon_Scott's $80 job was merely for sharpening only and not set up, but I'm pretty sure that's what you were implying.
Nonetheless that's a super price for that part of the job.
Cheers, BB.
I live a 24 Hour lifestyle, but every now and again I seem to fall asleep, well at least that's what my wife tells me.
Hi TC Sorry I didn't get back to you earlier it's been a hectic few weeks over Easter and I'm just getting back into routine. Guessing you figured the electrolysis out? I was advised by BB to not doing the reel as I didn't know it was a no no so take his advice. Your progress is looking good, just remember your prep work is what makes the difference even though it's not the most fun part, but it makes the rest of the process enjoyable and worthwhile. The stainless roller is worth ordering for the price, you will spend $30.00 in materials and time cleaning the old one and it won't look as good. Your not wrong about the weather cooling overnight we must of had the hottest Easter ever with nice sunny 28+ degree days, I didn't think it was cool enough yet for the winter Bream to move in but I was wrong. I only managed to get out in the boat for 2 hours over Easter and got a couple of thumpers and got busted off by a flatty as long as my arm on my light gear Bream outfit, it's now drastically cooled down in the last few days so keep in mind paint will dry slower and take longer to cure. As with the reel sharpening BB is correct $80.00 was just to get it sharpened with a new bed knife, I then had to install and adjust the reel to blade myself as well as set up the chain tension and clutches. The full service set up fee including sharpening and new bed knife was $130.00, the reel sharpening would of been cheaper if I used my existing bed knife but I got it replaced with a new one so your probably looking at around $50.00 for just a sharpen using your existing blades.
Nice catch! I head towards Killcare for most of my fishing these days as it is very consistent. The moon is in the right phase both days this weekend but the weather is supposed to be crap, so I'll probably stay home and keep working on Kermit and whatever distractions The Countess comes up with.
I try and paint as early as the hint of warmth arrives and I've setup a frame off the pool fence so the sun can do its work.
BB - I love the challenge of doing everything myself and your guidance & tips are making that easy. I heard a cheer in the metal room about an hour ago and upon investigating, saw the boys high-fiving after the removal of the clutch half. It looks like the 2 grub screws were the culprit, as you suggested! They said they pressed the clutch towards the motor by about 2mm and then was able to use that as momentum to ease the part off. I'll bring the catcher into work next week and start knocking out the kinks and love-taps before stripping the paint and preparing it for its own re-birth.
This weekend will be mainly spent working on the handlebars (which look pretty good) and cleaning/polishing the array of bolts, nuts, washers etc so I can make sure I have them all. I still haven't decided on the eventual colour so that will have to be done fairly soon too.
Cheers, TC.
Last edited by TheCount; 02/05/1903:13 PM. Reason: typo
Good to hear it's going well, if the handle bars are not rusted up a quick rub down with some water and aluminium foil will do the trick then depends how keen you are you can polish it with a mop and polish bars.
As much as I like original I wouldn't do a Kermit green paint job. If I were to keep it along the lines of original I would maybe go a deeper metallic green that sparkles pending on budget. What ever colour you chose it will still do the same job can't wait to see the progress.
Off topic, I love the week after the full moon, the Bream go nuts. Good to know you have something else to take your mind off things if you need a break from the restoration.
Didn't get anywhere near the amount of work done as planned, but did manage to clean all the nuts, bolts etc and lay them out so I can see if I've dropped anything. Looks like I'm missing a chain link lock so I'll run a magnet over the area outside and see what it picks up.
Speaking of picking up things - found a great way to clean up the loose strands from the wire wheel after they fly off through use - just walk over the area! Guaranteed to find every bloody piece of stray wire in minutes. Holy crap they give a sting when going in.....
I'm definitely going with a metallic colour - just not sure if it will be green or blue. I feel the green will be a great outcome, so I'll pick up a can of blue and cover one of the pieces this week and work out which will be the final choice..
