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#97491 03/04/19 08:45 PM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 2
Eric Offline OP
Novice
Sorting through some brochures today, and I came across this one. Only a one sided sheet with "Easy with the 2 speed self-driven Rota Cruiser" written on it. Not sure if you could really call it a ride-on mower, but it is a bit different. Haven't found any other info on it. May have been short lived.

Eric

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Rota.jpeg (59.5 KB, 123 downloads)
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Joined: Nov 2013
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Forum Historian
Hello Eric

That is fantastic and it is a new record!
This machine has never been recorded.

The use of the word 'cruiser' must date it to the mid 1950s.
It is an obviously self-propelled job and the triangular maker's plate
suggests this as an early Mobilco mower.

https://www.outdoorking-forum.com.au/forum/u.../re-mobilco-cruiser-c1956.html#Post61148

Amazing ... and thank you for the info.

We would love to record the full page of this brochure!

Many thanks
-------------------------------
Jack

p.s. I will add a point here.
If this is a self-propelled ride-on it may be the first AUS ride-on
of its type - having a jockey seat.

Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 7,466
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SENIOR TECHNICIAN
Hi Jack, the dolley set up was being used a long time ago, I think they might have used them on some of the steam powered mowers in the 19th century. This setup is far more refined and would not look out of place today, in fact it would probably be far more reliable and far more robust than the majority of ride on mowers being built today. One of the Deutscher self propelled slasher with a dolley , much cheaper than a ride on and far less problems. I have seen the dolley units for sale in the States but from memory they were about $800

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Hi Eric and Norm

This topic got me thinking ... Eric has given us a new record: -

https://www.outdoorking-forum.com.au/forum/u...obilco-rota-cruiser-c1956.html#Post97530

Norm, many thanks for your provocative thoughts.
You got me thinking about trailing seats and I have some further thoughts on that.

I will need a bit of time to sort that.

cheers
------------------
Jack

Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 2,043
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SENIOR TECHNICIAN & HISTORIAN
Hello Jack,Norm And Eric

I haven't seen many detailed images showing the mower Sulky .

1964 Webb mower with Sulky.

Cheers
Max.

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Webb mower with Sulky.png (59.3 KB, 82 downloads)
Joined: Nov 2013
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G'day Max, Eric and Norm
Many thanks Max.

My best guess is that these trailing seats first appeared in the interwar years.
Here is a Ransomes brochure I just posted: -

https://www.outdoorking-forum.com.au/forum/u...ling-seat-brochure-c1950s.html#Post97585

Cheers
-------------------------
Jack


Joined: Sep 2015
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SENIOR TECHNICIAN & HISTORIAN
Thanks Jack for the copy of the Ransomes brochure and info.

When looking for patents I find the trailing seat is called a Sulky in America.

Cheers
MW.

Attached Images
USD184704.png (136.05 KB, 72 downloads)
US2740462-drawings-page-2.png (256.5 KB, 71 downloads)
seat.jpg (484.77 KB, 72 downloads)
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G'day Max

Many thanks for your research.
Your thoughts are always welcomed here and your
research is always impeccable.

Max, This is such an interesting topic - the terminology used
in mechanical components has such historical baggage!

Sorry for this rant ... I apologise in advance ....

The horticultural world has been influenced by the
automotive world and, in turn, the agricultural world.
Engineering has such historical baggage in its terminology.

It appears to me that terminology was flexible and unsettled
prior to the modern era (post WWII) in the major powerhouses
of lawn mower designs - the UK and the USA.

For example, I consciously used the word 'reel' to describe
what the British would today name a 'cylinder' mower. I have argued
my reasoning behind that on these great forums many times.
I favoured the North American descriptor in that case.

In this case, I favour the UK's Ransomes' descriptor - for 'trailing seat'.
Shanks was using 'trailer' in the interwar years; Greens was using
'Trailing Driver's Seat' at the same time.

You are absolutely right - North Americans have adopted 'sulky'
for this accessory. But, it doesn't explain enough - just like
'cylinder' was deficient in the above example.

At least, 'trailing' gives us a location for the object.
It doesn't explain the motive force though ... [it's complicated] smile

Here's a good example: -

[A] You are in the early 20th Century ... 1914 Australia.
You work for a regional council and operate a Shanks 36"
'Triumph' Horse mower. This machine is propelled, but not self-
propelled ... the engine is a horse ... just like 'Mr Ed'. It has a
sulky seat on the mower itself.

[B] You are in the early 20th Century ... 1932 Australia.
You work for a wealthy Sydney 'captain of industry'.
You have charge of a Ransomes 24" Motor Lawn Mower. This machine
is self-propelled ... the engine is a petrol job ... and your
Master has purchased an accessory to make your job easier -
a 'sulky seat'! Actually, a' trailing sulky seat'. Really, a 'trailing seat' ... Hurrah!

Max, I know you will raise this point ...
What happens when the trailing seat is also the motive force - the 'engine'?
I know you know that's been done too!

That discussion will have to be for another time!

Cheers
--------------------
Jack

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shanks_catalogue_1914_11.jpg (144.91 KB, 67 downloads)
ransomes_1932_26.jpg (88.75 KB, 67 downloads)
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SENIOR TECHNICIAN & HISTORIAN
G'day Jack

Yep great examples,the terminology is very interesting.

I see sulky being used to describe a few strange contraptions.

Cheers
Max.

Attached Images
4.png (1.12 MB, 52 downloads)
Sulky with a third wheel ..png (1.1 MB, 56 downloads)
6.jpg (48.15 KB, 56 downloads)
Untitled5.jpg (39.54 KB, 50 downloads)
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SENIOR TECHNICIAN
Hi Jack,
any idea where the use of the saying "Shanks's pony" came from then, I'm guessing it has something to do with the Shanks mowers, never thought about it before. Probably not many here would have heard the saying

Last edited by NormK; 10/04/19 07:48 AM.
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SENIOR TECHNICIAN & HISTORIAN
Hi Norm I did see this info. about the horse of 10 toes.(alternative version)

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Shanks mare (Copy).jpg (182.16 KB, 41 downloads)
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Well there you go Max that is all very interesting, I have never heard the horse of 10 toes saying before but it all makes sense . Another fine bit of research by you

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G'day Max and Norm

Yep, even John Ellis, the leading authority on Shanks,
corrected the record in his definitive book ...

https://www.outdoorking-forum.com.au/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/64666/shanks-pony-a-correction.html

Max, great images of the oddities.
The Benz one really highlights the origins of the 'horseless carriage'.

The Old Lawnmower Club has great records of the 'Mower Pusher' -
another oddity for sure ... note how one version converted push mowers
to self-propelled. The other version did this but added a trailing seat
to make the mower both self-propelled and a ride-on!

Shanks' Pony would roll over in its grave! laugh

I love Max's pointing out the metaphorical 'horse of 10 toes'.
It beautifully explains the burden of poor folk in this decadent World.
Fantastic, Max!

https://www.oldlawnmowerclub.co.uk/mowers/moms/mp026-mp-mower-pusher
https://www.oldlawnmowerclub.co.uk/mowers/moms/mp050-rendle-mower-pusher

Cheers
-------------------------
Jack

Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 7,466
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SENIOR TECHNICIAN
Well there we go Jack, another myth busted, bit of a pity because it had a magical/novel sort of ring to it

Last edited by NormK; 10/04/19 10:10 PM.
Joined: Sep 2015
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SENIOR TECHNICIAN & HISTORIAN
Hi Norm and Jack
The other day when looking for more info. on the trailing seat I found a few more pics.
The Benz patent was easy to find although the text is obviously in German.

Cheers
Max.

Attached Images
Self Powered Sulky.png (736.5 KB, 23 downloads)
3.jpg (161.31 KB, 23 downloads)
5.jpg (125.16 KB, 23 downloads)
7.jpg (51.71 KB, 23 downloads)
Benz.jpg (45.97 KB, 23 downloads)
E-Trailer , Roll Test.png (909.03 KB, 23 downloads)
4.jpg (20.06 KB, 23 downloads)
44.jpg (81.19 KB, 22 downloads)
Pusher Trailer.jpg (67.67 KB, 22 downloads)
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 7,466
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SENIOR TECHNICIAN
Hi Max, over the years there has been so many inventions to deal with a single problem, how best to cut the grass.

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Forum Historian
G'day Norm and Max

This topic has gone off topic, but the topic heading
preserves the intention - it's about the Mobilco Cruiser.

I'm glad we all went off-topic and focused on the 'sulky seat'.
Doing this may lead to new understandings. This occurred here.

This is Eric's post and we are better for understanding his contribution here.

However, this topic has added new information - both on the Mobilco and the
history of trailing seats ... and more! This is ODK at its best. Thank you.

Brilliant research and commentary - in my view.
Classic Max, Norm and Jack. I hope members agree.

The self-propelled trailing seat adds a whole new understanding
in the development of the lawnmower.

Such a decadent idea - the powered trailing seat ... just like wearing comfy 'loafers' ...

Cheers
----------------------
Jack.

p.s. We will need to start a new topic to continue conversation beyond the Mobilco.


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1950s_lawnboy_ebay_2015.JPG (329.65 KB, 14 downloads)

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