OutdoorKing Repair Forum Forums Restoring, Customising and Modifying Engines Kirby H4-4A Tecumseh HK25 Re-build

Hi all,
New to the lawn mower restorations I am currently working on a kirby HK30 that has no spark what I have done so far is changed the spark plug and set gap, inspected the ignition module for wire damage and cleaned the points. I went to reassemble the engine, flywheel ect and tried to start it but the pull cord won't budge this wasn't an issue before I did any work? Anyone have any ideas on what I have done wrong? I have pulled it apart several times now and refitted but no change. Seems like the flywheel won't spin the engine wouldn't of seized would it?

Thanks Teebag

Was it turning before you started working on it?, if so it sounds like the coil is grabbing the flywheel

Thank you that's all I had to do was adjust the coil, unfortunately still lacking spark. Am I better off buying a new magneto section and ignition module instead of playing around with the current one?

Sorry can't help you there I have no idea what coils are available for the H4-4A, BB is probably the best one on that stuff, he should be along here later today

Hi Teebag & Norm,

I guess one has to ask the question, was it running prior to strip down if not I suspect and concur with Norm that you have a cooked ignition coil.

Parts for Kirby engines are very thin on the ground and definitely not available as an over the counter part in Australia. If anything is out there it will either have to come from the USA (ouch) or a Chinese copy shipped from Asia. Ebay will probably be your best option I'd say.

Let us know how you go before making any purchases and I will best advise you on how to proceed.

Cheers,
BB.

Teabag my one concern is did you set the coil gap correctly, the fact that the coil was touching the flywheel means you may not have got the gap right, this may be causing the lack of spark

Hi Norm,

I guess that's why I asked the question as to whether it worked prior to what's been played with. It would give us both a bit more insight. My guess is no it didn't function, but there's no harm in asking I always say. Sometimes the obvious is just staring us all in the face but we can't see the forest for the trees.

Cheers,
BB.

Thanks for the messages.

I purchased the mower knowing it had no spark but thought I could clean it up and try and get it working. Still hope I can.
This is why I had pulled the the engine apart at the start. What I have done so far is new spark plug, cleaned and set the points. I'm struggling on how to get the correct gap between the coil and the flywheel as once I put the flywheel on I can't access it. Is it all just trial and error? Next step is to test resistance on the coil probably should of done this from the start.

Thanks for the advice

Setting the correct gap between the coil and flywheel is rather easy.

I simply use someones business card that I no longer require and place that between the two items while the coil is loose and tighten it up with the card re-creating the gap. once tightened up simply pull the card out and you're set to go.

As far as non working coil is concerned you might find it is just the High Tension lead going to the spark plug that's failed due to outdoor exposure etc etc.

Cheers,
BB.

Can use that same method when the magneto is behind the flywheel? If so I will give it a go

Hi Teebag,

Not quite sure about that situation as access will be awkward. I'm feeling that trial and error may be your best method here.

Cheers,
BB.

Cheers BB

Hopefully post up how I went soon

Hi Teebag, hope you sort this one out. No spark can be a frustrating thing when you don't know what's causing the problem, sometimes it can be starring at you in the face and it's the easiest fix. Alot of no spark issues I have had with other engines is a simple fix which involves checking the high voltage wire that connects to the spark plug, common issue is that the end of the connector that touches the spark plug disconnects from the wire that runs in the insulated black rubber insulated tube. Most of these connect by a sharp spike pushed through the rubber insulation and touches the solid copper wire inside (sometimes the spike misses the wire or needs to be re spiked to make contact). Check for connectivity from the end connector on the sparkplug side to the point on the magneto to see if it's got continuity. Also check that your coil is not shorted to ground which is what causes your engine to stop when you turn the engine off.

Hey Bon Scott,
So I got around to tinkering a little more tonight. I started off by checking if I was getting any resistance reading and I wasn't getting anything what I did next is what you suggested and look more in depth with the contact of the prong, I tried my best to salvage the prong during removal but it broke I'm sure I can just replace it with a spark plug boot. I tested on bare wire and I got a reading which is a good start. As I'm a newby and not really mechanically minded what sort resistance reading should I get? I wasn't getting one off the coil itself as it's covered with plastic but I got a reading off the metal forks once I connected the coil on again. First reading was high 13000 and second was like 18000 does this sound right?

Cheers

Changing the end prong shouldn't be an issue if it broke. Did you get a reading before the plug broke?
Not sure of resistance values, maybe a quick google search can give you a guide, I remember finding a good video on YouTube a while ago that explained how to check resistance and how to charge and check a condenser with a multimeter.
As far as I'm aware the only thing that can go wrong is a broken connection a short or dead condensor.
also check to see if the points are dirty and need cleaning

Also one of these spark plug testers make life alot easier when checking for spark, you connect it inline with the sparkplug and the coil wire and you don't have to worry about the sparkplug moving off the engine when cranking. Plus it's easy to read when the globe lights up if you get spark.

That's a nifty gadget I must say,

Update, I got the old kirby started
I ended up just replacing the spark prong with a boot and terminal and bang it started. Bon scott thanks for the advice it was staring me right in the face I have a new problem now the mower ran fine for five minutes until I turned it off and went to start it again and the pull cord snapped Lucky it was right at the knot so I managed to fix it. I attached the pull start and now old kirby won't start could I of set something up wrong with the pull start? I had trouble with assembling these few parts spring retainer, dog starter and retainer. Maybe I set this up wrong? Could this be the reason why it isn't starting?


Cheers

Absolutely not. The recoil starter only rotates the engine to gain momentum and nothing more.

Glad I could help you with the spark issue, 95% of my spark issues end up being the end connector not making contact with the wire. Some engines I have even reverted to soldering the end connector to the wire if it's not a tight connection. As for not starting again well that could be anything and eliminating one thing at a time is probably your best solution. First check your sparkplug and make sure it's not fouled up, if it ran for 5mins that's enough time for the sparkplug to be fouled up if it's running to rich or burning alot of oil. Other thing to eliminate is cleaning the carby, make sure all jets are unblocked and bowl float is not stuck. Also some engines won't start unless the fuel tank is at least half full, Kirby shouldn't have that problem as it's gravity fed and doesn't have a diaghprame but worth a shot. Try restarting with out the air filter if it's got one installed.
Maybe check your new sparkplug boot you installed hasn't come lose again with vibration or movement.

This is a photo of my recoil starter I took for reference before striping it down so I knew how to re-assemble it once I cleaned it up. But as long as the rope cranks its not the pull recoil.

For anyone who was interested in the baffle, I got my hands on a complete Kirby muffler intact that's in very good condition.
I managed to pick up a model 38 SB edger with a Kirby engine. My baffle design was very close so I'm going to replicate a new one exact to the original and swap the original into my restored engine.
I can't believe I found a model 38 with a Kirby to match my model 45 Kirby. Can't wait to get stuck in to the next restoration once I finish the model 45.
This engine starts first pull and looks beautiful for its age, I'm almost scared to touch it and wonder if I should leave it original and just wash it down.
When I get back home from holidays I will take measurements of the baffle and draw it all out for reference for anyone else who wants to make one.