OutdoorKing Repair Forum Forums Restoring, Customising and Modifying Tech Talk "Genuine" Brazilian Bosch plugs?

As we all know, the quality of plugs coming from places like China is very hit and miss. I have had good plugs and bad plugs. But I'm getting sick of all the crap ones on the market today which are being advertised as "genuine".

I've noticed the quality of Champion CJ8 plugs has started to go down hill in recent years, ever since threaded terminals got replaced by solid ones. So I decided to try some "genuine" Bosch WS8E. They arrived yesterday and I must say I am very disappointed. These are clearly made "on the cheap". In fact they have all the attributes of fake NGK plugs: poor quality seating, rough threads, inferior quality metals, poor quality ceramic, and even the printing is blurred and faded. The biggest problem is the metal shell just above the thread is warped in the same place on every single plug, meaning that the seating is impaired. Then I noticed on the side of the boxes: "Made in Brasil". I did some searching online and it seems Bosch regularly outsource their products these days to Brasil, Russia, and China. At least back when they made some of their products in Italy the quality was still there, but wow, the quality of this Brazilian product is very poor. The terminals on these Brazilian-made Bosch plugs are solid and cannot be screwed off, which also leads me to believe these plugs are wrongly labelled. Bosch plugs with solid terminals should have an "R" designation in the title, so they should technically be Bosch WSR8E plugs!

Does anybody have any experience with USA-made Windsor 40WSRE8 plugs? Judging by the photos they do look to have good quality metals and ceramic at least. These are being marketed as a replacement for Champion CJ8. However the literature actually identifies them as an equivalent for Champion RCJ8 and Bosch WSR8E. The extra "R" indicates they are a solid terminal type.

Champion RCJ8 Threaddiameter: 14mm
Threadreach: 9.5mm
Seattype: flat
Hexsize: 19mm
Tipconfiguration: non projected
Construction: Standard construction
Terminaltype: Solid

Champion CJ8 Threaddiameter: 14mm
Threadreach: 9.5mm
Seattype: flat
Hexsize: 19mm
Tipconfiguration: non projected
Construction: Standard construction
Terminaltype: Removable

There is also a Stens Mega-Fire SE8JC which is being marketed as a vaguely Champion branded product, suitably replacing CJ8, and also Made in the USA. I am sure it will also have a solid terminal.

I have had both good and bad experiences with Chinese-made L6 plugs.

The hunt for the perfect spark plug goes on!

Hi VM,

Couldn't clarify anything of the above as I won't use anything but "GENUINE" NGK plugs sourced from reputable retailers. If you want to pay cheapskate prices you'll more than likely get cheapskate plugs.

Basically it's that simple.

At least with a reputable outlet there's come back, something you just don't get from faceless sellers online that just take your money and laugh at you.

Cheers,
BB.

So where do you buy these so-called "genuine" NGK plugs?

I prefer Bosch in most of my outdoor machinery, but the original "Made in Germany" parts are becoming very difficult to find. I guess this was the whole point of me posting up this thread. I just wanted to let people know that even though a product is in fact "genuine", it can still be poor quality. Most of the big name brands have "sold out" to cheaper production in foreign countries. The quality control has gone out the window. I guess it is only a matter of time before NGK shift their production from Japan to China too. The huge problem with NGK is that there are so many non-genuine fakes around with an NGK label on them. Some of these fakes have even ended up being sold inadvertently by reputable sellers. I believe I purchased some fake NGK plugs from one of NGK's "reputable dealers" many years ago and they resulted in the death of my car engine. I no longer trust the brand and refuse to buy it.

Hi VM,


I guess you've pretty much answered your own question as all companies are looking at cheaper Asian production facilities.

Bosch have moved their belt sales out of Australia and also completely ceasing production of them altogether. Honestly couldn't come a day too soon as their belts were horrendous and constantly glazed their surfaces and stretched to no limits. I have constantly been changing belts on my 3RZ powered Hilux and have now gone to another brand hoping I have more success.

The big names are no where near what they used to be are they ?

I personally have never had an issue with any NGK products and as such have stuck with them. All my engines purr well with them installed.

But in saying that I've found most people that buy stuff on line at a super cheap price generally and I'll repeat that word "generally" .........only get what they pay for.

I'm not trying to have a go here, but this is the way of the world like it or not.

Cheers,
BB

The only problem I am having with the NGK plugs is the CMR 10mm series. I had some pretty strange problems out them from misfires to completely shorted. I semi deconstructed one CMR6H the was shorted to find the short was occurring between the electrode and the insulator. It is like the porcelain had became conductive instead of insulating. I measure a 600kΩ on the one I took apart. I also had in a Stihl hedger that was causing dieseling shortly after start-up. That one even the dealer couldn't fix the hedger, just said it was fine.

But BB said v-belt are a problem right now with so many el cheapo on the market stating they are OEM spec'd when they are not even close. One vendor I use to use is getting them out of India. Rarely the sizes matched the stated size. With belts up to 2" short. So I switch over to Stens which sell USA made belts as I heard a lot good things about. Guess what even they screw from time to time as I got belt in that was to be 103" long and when I measured it before installing it was 104"; actually both belts were 104" as I had purchase two of them.

Now Kevlar and Aramid supposedly only have a 1-2% max stretch and should be used on any mower deck.

I personally I demand quality at a fair price. I really got to watch where I buy my parts now as too many vendors are simply lying about what they are selling. I even got strung by a couple Amazon third party vendors.The old saying "Buyer Beware" is even more true in today's market.

AVB, I've given up buying belts for my self-propelled mowers. They stretch in no time these days and fly off. Forever re-fitting and replacing them. Easier to just push the mower like we did in the old days.

As for NGK plugs, I do in fact have a box of genuine plugs here that came directly from the company itself, so I know they are genuine. But on using the correct plug in some vintage engines I found them to run a bit rough. So I replaced them with my few remaining vintage Bosch plugs and found they ran much smoother and quieter.

Getting what you pay for isn't always correct either. I paid top dollar for what I considered to be genuine Bosch plugs, and that is the whole point of my comments. They ARE genuine Bosch plugs. The problem is they are being made very cheaply in Brazil and sold for the same price as the former German made stuff. I have never had any problems with Bosch whenever they were Made in Germany. In fact I would call them far superior in every way to other brands. But you just can't get them any more. Sellers (and I do not mean eBay sellers, although they are certainly involved) trick us by using the numbers for older plugs, so you order them. But the second you open up the package you realize they have just sent you a modern day "equivalent".

I have resorted to searching for places selling "vintage" Bosch products and then I send them an email to ask if they are Made in Germany. I found some Bosch plugs for sale in Germany and sent them a translated message asking if they are German made. They never replied, which is probably their way of telling me they are a foreign-made Bosch product. Another company had genuine Bosch plugs for sale on their website and in big letters "Made in Germany". But when I clicked on the thumbnails for a few of the plugs you could clearly see "Brasil" stamped on the side of the shells! I saw a vintage Bosch WS8E advertised on eBay one day but by the time I logged in the item had gone. And "no" it was not cheap! Clearly the old genuine products are becoming much sought after.

If you're having problems with V belts ,I would go and buy a Dayco V belt https://dayco.com.au/products.aspx

The last mower plugs I bought were $1.50 each not long ago,they don't even say where they are made.

Cheers
Max.

I have also found Dayco belts good.

Worked out my old Withco Victa engined edger takes the same belt as a 1989 Hyundai Excel a/c belt

Also found (but haven't needed yet) that Victa Tilt a cut edgers take the same belt as the early 90s Land Rover Discovery (either the A/C or PS belt). From memory only thing different was a 36 degree belt 'pitch' (if that's the right word) compared to the genuine TAC 40 degree. Although I believe the PT engined TaC's use a longer belt.

Regards
Tyler

You maybe installing Poly belts and need to switch over to Kevlar belts. Poly do have a rather large stretch factor of 3-5% where Kevlar normally only stretch 1-2%. Sometime though you have no choice but to buy OEM belts due to sizing specs. Many OEM intentionally use specs that only they have especially OEMs like MTD. Many of the so-called aftermarket belt for MTD simply will not work properly.

Yes Max, very true about the spark plugs. These days they are not even telling us where they are made! I recently tried to track down the source of Windsor plugs which are supposedly Made in the USA, (or so a few internet sellers would have us believe!). I am now fairly sure they are in fact made by the Windsor automotive parts company which is based in India. At least there does not appear to be any auto-electrical company in the
USA called Windsor, as far as I can see. Also there does not seem to be any point of origin as far as suppliers go, with most sales being advertized by a handful of vendors on Amazon and eBay. So my guess is, nope they are not made in USA folks. It is becoming like Ripleys' Believe it or Not, and more often it is "NOT"! I am pretty sure the last Champion CJ8 I bought had no country of manufacture on the packet.

It is amazing how many people these days still think many of the former Australian-made products are still Made in Australia. Someone recently said to me "I'm glad I always use Colgate toothpaste because at least we know it is made here!" I had to break the bad news. I said Colgate has not been made in Australia for ages. I gave her a loan of my magnifying glass and pointed to the spot on the label. She was horrified. I said "Well it hasn't killed you so far and you've been using it for about a decade now, so chances are it is still the same product."

AVB, thanks muchly for the advice, I will definitely give those kevlar belts a try! Not sure why I hadn't thought of that before.

Back to Bosch WS8E plugs. I found some more for sale in the United States which looked promising. Sent the fellow an email: "Hi, Do you have any additional photos of the plugs and the original box? Are these "Made in Germany" or made somewhere else by Bosch?" Once again I never received a reply. I have found a few used ones that were made in Germany. Looks like I will just have to be satisfied with whatever fits and works. Most Chinese L6 plugs seem to work okay in old Briggs engines.

VM In China I believe spark plug manufacture is controlled by the supply of boxes they have at the time, If they have copy Bosh boxes, they today we stamp the plugs Bosch, tomorrow it might be Champion or whatever, same plug,different boxes

Norm I believe you may have "hit the nail on the head" with this. So much bootleg (counterfeit) on the web it isn't even a funny any more. It is a battle every day it seems just to get genuine products when we need or want them. It is a lot of the reasons we are having such hard time making repairs.

We are not the only ones being con by these con-artists either as our vendors are victims too. All we can do is to be vigilant and use vendors that guarantee (stand behind) their products. Most that I use will credit me for the incorrect items. Depending the value they either just have me to toss the item or sent it back with either sending a replacement or by crediting my account. Those vendors are the ones I stick with. After 40 yrs of repairing items you do get sense when looking buy something that just don't seems and to avoid it; most times but not always. I tend on by a rule I have here. First mistake forgive if they make good, second shamed on the vendor sent the same lousy product, and it is my fault if I get stuck a third time. I rarely get to stage three usually after the second time the vendor gets dropped like a hot potato and the word get passed around about them.

I have found these forums are also a good source of info on some items that members have tried and had problems with. I even post a few myself where I got burned by a vendor or product. Oh there are those posters that sneak in and post phony info or ads but the moderators and administrators do our best to weed those out as quickly as we can or at least I do on a forum that I an administrator for. I especially hate those kitchen cabinets ads. It one violation that get a new member fully banned as soon I can enter the banning info.

I leave anyone alone for a few hours as I got 4 chainsaws to repair today. Hopefully I am not dumb enough to cut off my own leg while I am at it. Sorry I just want to use the chainsaw smiley.

I had a look through the plugs I have.
Bosch wr8dc - made in Russia
Bosch wr8dp (platnum) made in Germany. Bought these for $1.40 each from Repco.
Kicking myself that i bought 14 at $ 1.4; seriously worth buying now - 70c each on special. WR8DP

I have only used in my 2 stroke generator so far, but would probably go good in a Briggs (put a wr8dc in one a few months ago). Cheap for a German made platinum plug.

I don't know about availability over east though.

Champion from repco - made in USA. In the little cardboard boxes.

Some blister packaged plugs made in usa, others 'designed in USA, Made in China'.

Regards
Tyler

I ended up buying some Briggs and Stratton brand RJ19LM plugs packaged in the USA which are in a cardboard blister pack with the big B&S logo on them. The plugs inside are in fact Champion plugs. I reckon that if Briggs and Stratton recommend them, well at least they must be willing to call the product their own, regardless of where it was made.

I am not promoting any single brand here. Just trying to sort out the best alternatives from what has become a very limited set of options.

Well AVB, I tried a kevlar belt. Instead of going three rounds of the yard before the belt flew off this time I made it 4 times around before it flew off. Well it was an improvement!

This "Run the belt off in super swift time" mower would have to rate as the second worst mower I have ever owned. I say 2nd worst because I once owned a Stiga ride-on mower.

Well VM looks like you will have to make up a guide to keep the belt on, it can be done. Just because a manufacture makes something the way they do does't meant it doesn't have faults, modifying to make things work properly is what turns an average machine into a great machine