So while I'm on a roll, lets get into something that satisfies both the engine guy and the equipment guy that dwells within
This is my latest acquisition, a New Record Drag Saw c/w Southern Cross Mk. AKB engine. Circa 40's but I don't know how to date it more accurately yet.
I will be picking her up in the next couple of weeks and like most things of this type, she's nearly going We have spark, we have fuel at the plug so surely it must be mixture or timing, right?
These things must have been ground breaking when released in the 20's. If yer boss could afford it, no more 2 man rip saws � it must have been a right blessing in an otherwise hard world.
She looks a bit worse for wear but the reality is, it's all there and all operational. As a bonus I think the crank handle will fit my IHC Type H so I can get the timing sorted on that too � see what I mean about a few projects on the go??
I already have a saw buddy, but he's in QLD. We'll have to meet somewhere and have a "saw off" one day.
Really look forward to seeing what everyone else has and build on the knowledge base and history.
hahahaha Monty Python .. love it! Yep, I'll take that as confirmation they were really used in forestry operations lol
You have really peeked my interest Jack with your comment on being a North American machine .. I had no idea New Record were an import. I did see that they got a Ronaldson & Tippett horizontal engine or 2 rebadged ..
Oh, and I also learned there was an attachment that changed the cutting aspect of the blade through to horizontal for tree felling! I guess they also used wedges to keep the blade from getting stuck.
You mentioned above "these North American machines" and that got me thinking ... were you meaning that New Record was an American company or were you talking about the concept of automated saws generally??
Actually I was asked to provide some detail of my saw to an American guy who's not only compiling an international register of Drag Saws but owns about 150 US manufactured models himself!
I'm rather flattered and he's also writing a book but we were both of the opinion that New Record was an Australian company so I just wanted to check
You mentioned above "these North American machines" and that got me thinking ... were you meaning that New Record was an American company or were you talking about the concept of automated saws generally??
G'day Geoff I did everything wrong in that 'cursory' search and jumped to wild conclusions. I spent a bit of time tonight and I think I can clarify things.
And I think I have the maker and address ... They were made by the New Record Machinery Company of West Melbourne.
I agree, The New Record was an AUS machine. Note how Rosebery and Buzacott sort of 'disguise' the maker by silence.
Hope this helps. ---------------------------------- Jack
I wonder then if New Record actually made their own engines or whether they just white labelled some stuff from Buzacott et. al
G'day Geoff That requires a considered answer, and I have thought about this for some time ...
Time-and-time-again I have noted examples of incestuous relationships between companies. I also point out that private commercial contracts generally remain private. We connect the dots from other evidence.
Buzacott is, itself, a prime example of this. Manufacturers: yes. Re-branders: yes.
This practice seems to have arisen late 19th century, when modern advertising techniques emerged. It is much older than we think. It is ubiquitous nowadays.
I cannot find evidence that New Record made there own engines. ... Maybe they did, though ...
A great question Geoff! -------------------------------------------- Jack
Hey Jack, Excellent summizing there mate and interesting you can trace some time line for sure.
I am thinking with such a small pool of this older equipment left to draw from, the dots become easier, or larger?? � if we still used these machines for our daily chores and with limited access to slow moving information as it was back then, one probably wouldn't question whether the "new" IHC was a Ronnie or an import.
I have also thought that with shipping and importation the way it was back then, it was probably vastly easier to reach a market and establish your credentials by white labelling a few models and leaving the big costs to importing your core or proprietary products �
On New Record engines, I can't seem to find it but there was one for sale recently with the New Record branding shown as relief work on the hopper and on the makers plate.
I have the feeling it was very Lister'ish, upright in stance, and dark green (for a change lol)
We have some digression from the usual argy bargy of getting a drag saw working again .. I was searching for the New Record engine and found not 1 but 2 references �
Please refer the attached pics, I'd be glad of anyone's opinion as to whether they are an original breed or simply rebadged.
I do have a feeling that they are a Rosebery in disguise but both are clearly badged New Record and 1 has quite an elaborate makers plate.
I'll concur that these New Record engines are just a rebadge, of the Rosebery/Buzacott Model 2C. As is every vertical New Record that I can find online pics of! The cast-in model number is the same one Rosebery/Buzacott used, too.
It's notable that the New Record 'makers' plates are screw-ons, as were the Rosebery and Buzacott plates. An engine made with rebadging in mind, I'd say.
There are a couple of very distinctive design features found on the Rosebery/Buzacott verticals. These are the centrifugal governor housing/breather, and the 'fuel vaporiser', with its side bowl/needle valve for petrol starting, when running on power kerosene. These features appear on these New Record engines.
Once again Jack, your research and papers leads to such an interesting read .. funny to see we are faced with the whole white label thing again .. screw on plates seem to be the dead give-away, right? lol
I love the repurposed ute tank on that Rosebery, I was looking at a 3hp C same time as the Inter but the C had no transport � I think I got the better engine in the end though.
Interesting enough, while we were on the topic of why international companies were buying local engines, I came across some info concerning the whole Johnson / Cooper / Sunbeam thing and foreign ownership etc � seems the import taxes were incredibly high back then so overseas companies had to work out whether licensing their product, partial ownership or re-branding was going to serve their purposes better.
Sure am glad we have all that "free trade" so we don't have to worry about making anything locally now, right??
Hi Geoff, Glomod Gadge and Norm I can't take credit for Gadge's research and understanding of old engines. He is way beyond my ken of understanding in this area.
I feel Gadge has given compelling evidence that New Record rebranded Roseburys,
G'day folks, No worries Geoff, these things happen! I can't lay claim to very extensive knowledge of antique engines, but picked up a fair bit about the Buzacott/Rosebery verticals in the course of overhauling a 3hp as a high/tech school project back in the 70's.
Hey Gadge, Thanks for the referrals man, I don't really belong to too many other forums but will check these out for sure.
Compression on the AKB is terrific and as I've said before, the carb is drawing up fuel well too. I reckon when we have this maggy sorted, it'll all be downhill form there.
I'm definitely a little concerned about getting into the head to check valves etc as the interior of the hopper is so corroded and with that mess is the bolts to disconnect it
Well, everything else has come undone so far with only gentle persuasion so I remain hopeful that continuous treatment with diesel will suffice until I'm ready
Your school project sounds trerrific .. not enough of it today I don't think. It would certainly keep lads interested rather than sitting still and being quiet lol
