Hi everyone Have been reading ODK forums for several months, it has certainly been a great help. I hope I have managed to post this in the right part of the forum. I just picked up a 125 edger from the tip shop the other day, and have got it running well. No bore/piston scoring, just needed points cleaned and set, about 1 kg of grease scrubbed out of the cooling fins and cowling, the fuel (which judging by the odd smell and colour was probably BP Zoom) drained, and of course a carby check and new snorkel.
I am trying to work out if the edger was made by victa or if its just the engine. It has the series 70 mark 2 engine, and it seems strange to me that it early 70's (1972?), a Victa product wouldn't use their own wheels, the ones on it are made by olympic. I have seen a couple of similar edgers online, and they seem to all be in Western Australia. My 1965 Alroh Imp edger also uses a very similar tyre, and since that one is WA made, I am thinking that maybe this one is victa engined, on a frame made by a WA firm. Any thoughts? I cant find much info on this model.
Also, with the 3s carby (i think thats what it is), do the 2 screws on the side adjust anything, or are they just to lock the interior parts in position and alignment? I know G4/LM ones quite well, but this is the first old Victa i have worked on.
Hello Tyler A warm welcome from me to these forums.
A number of small engineering companies made edgers ... mainly because they were of simple design.
I think this a typical example of one of those ventures. I do not know who Withco was.
This edger is powered by a 1970s Victa Industrial Unit. From the earliest of days, Victa's intention was to sell its engines to other OEMs (original equipment manufacturers).
Many thanks for the great images of the Withco Edger. I hope more information comes to light about the maker.
Hope this helps. ----------------------------- Jack
Also, with the 3s carby (i think thats what it is), do the 2 screws on the side adjust anything, or are they just to lock the interior parts in position and alignment?
Hello again Tyler I do not believe the carby is original to this engine. Victa used Amal carbs and their own, but I do not think a 1950s/1960s design Victa carb was used this late.
I think the screws are guide screws - not adjustable.
I went back out to the garage and have worked something out. On the airfilter housing, there is a sticker 'For sales and service, call DE Withers and co' - thats where the Withco name came from. From what i can find, in the early 60's they sold Turner Mowers, about all I can find is this photo from the 1961 royal show DE withers and co.
Another one i can find online has the same edger guard stamp and the same sticker on the filter housing.
Again thanks for the info - I find it quite fascinating to know about the origins and original dealers of the old machinery i have. I must take a picture of a MSAA craftsman line trimmer that i have, its from about 1981 i think, its a great one but i dont know much about it.
Yes Cyberjack, i too was thinking that the carby looked early 60's not early 70's. I just noticed that in the 2 page brochure you attached, it says that, along with a taper drive, the engines could be supplied with other air filters and carbys, so maybe DE Withers specified the old style carburetor with the snorkel. Victa probably still stocked full carburetors for their earlier mowers in 1972.
I searched the West Australian newspaper database (only goes back to 2004 but i thought they might have a story from perth in that era). They only had one brief mention of DE Withers and Co - it says they were a 'manufacturers representative' and in 1962 one company they represented was the german tool maker Dowidat (now Gedore).
I am glad i have been of some assistance, the information on ODK is so useful and varied across so many different makes and models, I found it interesting that there was nothing about this edger on here. But with so many different little manufacturers there have been throughout time, there is so much to find out; which is why it interests me so much.
I just noticed that in the 2 page brochure you attached, it says that, along with a taper drive, the engines could be supplied with other air filters and carbys, so maybe DE Withers specified the old style carburetor with the snorkel.
G'day Tyler Yes -good point - I've an open mind about this ...
I will say this: I have always been curious why Victa promoted the Amal carby over its own make on Victa's industrial engines.
In terms of engine design, Victa was so proud of its Model 1, fitted with its 125cc unit. There was a problem - with the magneto [it wasn't Victa].
Merv wanted a true all-Australian engine, so ancillary magneto and carburettor also became unique Victa designs.
At no stage do I believe that Victa designed these ancillaries, and it is questionable whether they made all or many of the component parts.
The Victa story clearly involves patent acquisition ... or outside commissions for Victa ancillaries.
From DAY 1, Victa was a lawnmower maker - not a component manufacturer. In the earliest days, Victa assembled lawnmowers from bought-in components. Brilliant!
Elvis said that we can't go on with suspicious minds, but ... So, I'll be blunt: I speculate that Amal may have designed or contributed to the first Victa carburettors.
[Villiers could not have been involved; given the rationale behind the Victa 125cc was for Villiers' supply failures!
I wonder whether Amal use was part of some 'arrangement' here?
Tyler, you raise an interesting point - as to whether an older Victa carby was offered on a 1970's Victa Industrial engine. You have given evidence for this.
I can't say I know the answer here, but you raise the possibility from the primary document I supplied.
All very provocative. ---------------------------------------------- Jack
I am glad i have been of some assistance, the information on ODK is so useful and varied across so many different makes and models, I found it interesting that there was nothing about this edger on here
G'day Tyler Yes, you have made a discovery that we can record with emerging detail.
Yep, I've pondered that too - about the lack of info here. I suspect this edger was WA specific and you have brought it back to life.
There has been poor historical reporting of garden equipment post 1970. I guess It's history waiting to happen.
Hi Cyberjack I think you are right about an Amal contribution to the 'Victa' carburetor design - in one form or another. For all we know, Victa may have commissioned another Aussie company to design a carby, and then that company had the Amal contribution.
It might have all changed when victa released their Imperial cylinder mower with the 2 stroke - maybe it meant they had more volume that made it viable to make G3 carbys without the governor vane.
Or maybe in 1972 they had some of the old style carburetors that they just wanted to get rid of. All very difficult to work out - but fun.
There is this link to another ODK thread - where there are edgers (including 1 withco) that have this old style carby. I find the history of Victa really interesting - like all history; its all about putting different pieces of the puzzle together.
I did find this link a few hours ago, the pictures show the right motors, and although we cant see the actual pages of the book, in the description it states how the manual covers "PARTS BREAK DOWN - VERTICAL 125cc, HORIZONTAL 125cc, HORIZONTAL 160cc, CARBURETOR 3D & 3L, CARBURETOR AMAL.
There isn't an exact date, but since 2 engines shown are mark 2, and the middle one is just series 70, am I right in saying that this would date the literature around 1972?
I have seen a couple of other mowers twice in the past at the tip shop that were sold by DE Withers - both briggs engined Rovers of a mid 70s vintage (not exactly sure since they were both severely dilapidated). One was a Rover Regal I think - I was too busy paying attention to the condition of what turned out to be a very nice 1989 Victa powertorque (that is now my regular mower after some reading on ODK).
There isn't an exact date, but since 2 engines shown are mark 2, and the middle one is just series 70, am I right in saying that this would date the literature around 1972?
G'day Tyler I think your determination in finding quality evidence is paying off here. This is quality research.
I feel you have convinced us that Victa did use their early slide throttle designs on much later commercial engines.
The Vol 1 Green book I have does not cover the 3D and 3L carbies. I guess this is because they were mods to suit the commercial power plants. Any ideas?
The earliest date for this literature is 1972 - when new Victa recoil starters were fitted to the new decompressor engines. The brochure / booklet could actually date from this time but could be dated to a few year's later.
Note the 1975 hand-written notation. However, also note the old 1960's Victa 'V' logo on the cover ... Is this Victa's clever attempt to separate two of its divisions?
No one seems to know when Victa disbanded its Industrial engine offerings. Best guess, mid-to-late 1970s.
I to found it strange they included the Victa V winged logo this late as i had an image in my head of a really early 60's victa ad with that logo on the cowling.
The carby on the Withco is (as far as i can tell) a 3L - i have read the 2 pages you attached earlier covering 3F, 3L and 3S, and it doesnt have the traits that is supposed to denote a 3S (jet colour and machining variance). It could be a 3F though. I also noticed the 1975 hand written notation - good spotting as I didn't see it the first time myself. It could date from that year, but would Victa still be selling series 70 125's after the mark 3 came out (74 I think?).
Maybe the manual was originally sold with a 125 power unit that wasn't moved until 1975?
If you have any other pages relating to the differences (internal or external) between the 3S, F, L carbs, I am more than happy to take the carby apart again to work out which one it is. That way we will have more clues to work out if they continued with the earlier 3F, 3L, maybe a combination of the 2 (3D?) or the 3S.
Must be a 3L then, since there isn't a bush and washer. I have seen a few carbs that have "victa" cast into the main body near where the sliding vane (attached to throttle cable) inserts into the body. like this one. Whereas others (like mine) are just blank. Maybe it was a supplier difference, or maybe the carb was being used by another engine manufacturer? Like how Nissan sanded off all the visible GM logos in the early production Pulsars (the ones that used the Holden Camira engine). Although another company using a victa carb is highly unlikely.
G'day Tyler, The carby zinc alloy die castings seem to have been made exclusively for Victa, by a company with the initials 'ESS'.
Some of the bodies are unmarked, some are marked 'Victa', and some are marked 'ESS'. This company also made some of the lanyard type starter pulleys for Victa.
Cheers, Gadge
"ODK Mods can explain it to you, but they can't understand it for you..."
"Crazy can be medicated, ignorance can be educated - but there is no cure for stupid..."
Sorry for the late reply - haven't been able to type all that much after a Homelite line trimmer decided to kick back when pull starting and slice my finger open.
Strange ESS changed their castings, usually companies look to keep the molds the same as long as possible, to reduce costs - although i guess they saved 0.001 cents in zinc by not writing lettering.
Do you think they used unmarked ones earlier or later in the production?
