I have a few Powertorques that won't start for some reason. They have compression and spark but for some reason won't give even a flutter of an attempt to fire, even with a bit of starter fluid in the plug hole. Only thing I can think of is pull them down, hone the bore, fit new rings and a new lower crank seal. Anybody have any other thoughts?
I know you and I have discussed this a few times Norm, but I wonder whether they require at least a minimum compression to run. I know they run on minimal compression but perhaps the Powertorques in question don't quite have enough to run. I'm not sure where I saw it (it may have been the Victa manual) but I read they require minimum of 70 or so PSI. You and I have got them to run on less than that but I guess there's a bottom point to it. If it doesn't start with starter fluid, it has to be compression unless somehow the spark is compromised inside the combustion chamber. If you fit new rings and hone the bore and it still doesn't start I'd question the compression. You can borrow my compression gauge if it helps (if you don't have one already). Anyway I'll follow this thread as I'm interested in the outcome.
Hi Tiger, I just keep putting these motors to one side, I know within 5 mins if they will run or not. Problem is the pile of discarded Powertorques is growing all the time. One day I will have to find out what the problem is but I'm not convinced compression is the issue. I have never bothered checking the compression on a Powertorque, I remove the decomp valve, put in a spark plug and see what the compression feels like. A couple of days ago I started a full crank that I struggled to find the compression but it still ran ok. Gave it a hone and a new set of rings and another great little motor up and running and hopefully LRT is happy with it
A couple of days ago I started a full crank that I struggled to find the compression but it still ran ok. Gave it a hone and a new set of rings and another great little motor up and running and hopefully LRT is happy with it
Yes Norm, it is running really well. Thank you for your helpful advice - much appreciated.
Hi Bigted, I have checked a couple and they have some scoring, but I have started some with bad scoring on the piston with a squirt of starter fluid in the plug hole, but these motors I'm talking about won't give the slightest flutter. Eventually I will rebuild them, just wondered why they showed no sign of life
Long shot but if you're convinced Compression, Spark and Petrol are ok then it leaves timing but from memory this is set on the Powertorques and is hard to alter.
Tiger the timing on these can't move, the flywheel is located on a flat on the crank. When I get a chance I will pull one apart and see what I can find, thing that concerns me at the moment is the $15 price tag on the lower crank seal, not sure if this is Victa specific, I'll take one up to the bearing place and see if they have that one, a seal that size should be worth no more than $5
Hello Norm and all, While doing up a pt I took the module from it for my Orange PT. Works well. It cut a super heavy grassed area like a mad chainsaw, specially with razor sharp blades and dry grass. Then it stopped. I changed the plug and it went... My Maroon Queenslander PT is now in need of looking as it has lost power. And the one I am working on at the moment has the starter problem, I can't put the friction spring back........ When they are dead, it looks like electrical, old wires, old plug, rusted coil. It's like something is shorting, maybe those old hardened wired have cracked and shorting.
I was checking my Orange PT today and didn't have a rubber boot on the plug as I rigged another plug, anyway ran next to the wire fence, it shorted and I felt the current running to ground through my clog... those rotten comfortable work boots sometimes have a sole 2 mm thick........ cheers speedy
........................Keep your blades sharp......................
Speedy, yours is an easy fix, pull the starter off the maroon one and put it on the one with the dodgy starter, then you have 2 running and only one that needs working on. And that is another Victa thing that gets up my nose, the Victa rubber spark plug cap they want $9 for but I get 5 whipper snipper ones from some mob in QLD for $10 and they don't look any different to the Victa ones
Speedy, yours is an easy fix, pull the starter off the maroon one and put it on the one with the dodgy starter, then you have 2 running and only one that needs working on. And that is another Victa thing that gets up my nose, the Victa rubber spark plug cap they want $9 for but I get 5 whipper snipper ones from some mob in QLD for $10 and they don't look any different to the Victa ones
Know what you mean...7.50 usd for 2 180 degree terminals and boots and these are aftermarket. In my case I need the terminals and not just the boots. I 90 degrees are fairly cheap though.
Here I am repairing a Briggs coil that mice has chewed through the high tension lead. Briggs don't offer replacement parts just new coil and the new coils don't even come with the rubber boot. The old boot here is also bad. Briggs do offer the 90 degree terminals but still no boots.
After a few hours found a source for 180 degree terminals and boots though fairly expensive in my opinion but still with lead still a 1/3 of the cost of a new Briggs coil without the boot.
Hi Norm, nothing uncommon there, if they're scored they generally don't like to fire because they dont have enough comp. A quick hone and a ring set and the'll be good to go.
Curious...What are you guys using to hone these 2 cycle ported cycles? I would a ridge hone is order but I haven't done a larger 2 cycle cylinder; just small 25-33 cc using a ball flex hone.
Hmmm, A three leg flex type hone usually gets me into trouble here on 4 cycles as they just make out of round and taper conditions worse. The ridge hones I use have two stone and two wipers so basically there 4 points of even contact. I use flex type hones for just as glaze breakers if just rings are worn out so the new ones will seat properly.
There have been times that I need to hone to nearly the next oversize before I can get the out of round and taper removed. I had one recently that I was at .018" over before taper was gone on a .020" over sizing. I was getting a little nervous to say the least since I had already order the oversized piston set.
It sure would be nice they started making .030" overs again and not just the .020" overs. Probably not enough material nowadays for doing .030" oversizing though.
AVB, no problems with the amount of material in these Powertorques and there is no problem using a 3 leg hone when you are using stones about 4 inches long
Ok back to this old problem. This one I sold a few weeks ago and it was running fine. The woman assures me that they have not straight fueled it but it has all the symptons except that the spark plug looks as I would have expected, not the light brown/dry that usually indicates no oil. Spark is good, tried several plugs, compression good everything seems as it should. What baffles me is that even with a squirt of starter fluid in the plug hole it doesn't give the slightest hint of wanting to fire. This is exactly what I get from a motor I know has been straight fueled. Any thoughts?
I have heard back in the 1950s people took their two stroke mowers back to the manufacturer when the motor seized and said they always used two stroke fuel,so the manufacturers checked the fuel in the tank by slowly heating the fuel in a pot until the fuel evaporated leaving behind the oil and a lot of the time no oil was left behind so no warranty was given.
Probably the quickest and easiest way would be to remove the muffler and look in the port at the condition on the side of the piston and rings for scoring or a seized ring.
Powertorques with compression and starter fluid in the plug hole always fire unless the spark is washed out (eg over fueling) or the coil or module need replacing .(this is assuming the bore,piston , rings and spark plug are in good condition)
Hi Max, spark on this one is very good, I just can't see why it won't give the slightest kick on the starter fluid, not that this is something new, when I can't get a kick from them I just put them in the non starting pile that I may get back to one day. I am more curious than concerned. If I get a motor that will give a flutter on the starter fluid but will not run on the carby then after replacing the top seal and still no go, then I assume the bottom seal is the problem and that motor goes in another pile.
Hi Norm,I have had a lot of coils and modules and they show good spark when the plug is out and the motor is a no go when plug is in then when you replace the module or coil the motor runs fine again,electrical problems can be intermittent works one second and not the next.
You really need a coil load tester to properly test a coil and not a ohm meter.
As Max said many coils and I might add spark plugs will fire out cylinder compression zone but will once the fuel load and compression are in play will not even arc the plug. Briggs uses a very large spark gap (about 0.140) to test magneto coils but the coils still need to be mount to do this. There reg coils testers but I have never needed one as I just use my head when testing a coil on engine that will not fire.
Also as Tyler mention you must have the minimum amount compression that the Powertorques requires the to start. This I don't know about these engines. Here on handheld two cycles that is 100 psi as the mix with oil requires a higher compression than the 65-70 psi that four cycle engines need. You can crank all day on a two cycle here if the compression is below 100 psi and never get a hit even with best of ignition spark. They might hit on starter fluid but I don't use it here.
Howdy AVB, NormK has mentioned in the past the pitiful compression you can get away with in Powertorques and it will still run and cut the lawn. I had a full crank 160 (predecessor to PT) with a regular piston inside an oversize cylinder that you could move the piston crown more than 1mm sideways with your fingers and it still ran. It stalled very easily though.
Ahh, if only victa had kept producing the thumblatch catcher series, they would be in better shape today!
I can't remember if I have come across a Powertorque coil that was faulty, don't think I have. The occasional module can fail but not often, full crank modules fail and I think that is partly caused by the fact the module is mounted on the underside of the ignition plate and does not get any airflow over it. When I replace these I fit them on the upper side of the plate so the fan helps cool it. MF I have had a full crank with a spark plug in the decomp hole and I struggled to find where compression was but it started easily and ran fine, and I used it for years like that. Tyler, compression is good and there is no indication of any puff of smoke or hiss indicating the gasket being a problem. AVB the jury is still out regarding how much compression is needed for these to run, this motor was running very well a few weeks ago. The lack of a kick from it with starter fluid above the piston still has me confused but it is something that happens occasionally. I have at least 50 of these motors here that I am going to set up and test when my son comes over from NZ in a few weeks. That way we can use a known coil, module and carby. It will be interesting to see what the results are, at least then I know what can go to the scrap
A squirt of starter fluid this morning and it started first pull, I had already changed the float needle yesterday and it would not start and it would not give a flutter with the starter fluid. The only thing I can think of is it had fuel in the crankcase , but it wasn't giving any indication of that pulling it with the plug out and the plug mas not showing signs of getting wet. Bit of a mystery I was hoping to come up with some answer for
AVB has mentioned he doesn't like the idea of using ether spray to try and wake up any two stroke engine. I believe he means from concerns of momentary lack of lubrication on firing up. I think in most circumstances, there would be enough oil residue to tolerate a small number if strokes before more two stroke oil arrives via the fuel. What's your take Norm? This is not invalidating AVB's concerns. He is likely right, in some circumstances at least.
Ahh, if only victa had kept producing the thumblatch catcher series, they would be in better shape today!
MF on my old Enfield Interceptor the only way I have ever been able to start it with starter fluid so much so that over 10 years ago I mounted a can of Start Ya Bastard in the left hand toolbox with a tube going directly into the inlet manifold and I can just press a flap on the top of the toolbox and this injects directly into the inlet. I had a bloke here yesterday with 2 chainsaws he could not start, quick squirt into the plug hole had both running fine within a few minutes, the bloke was amazed, and a bit annoyed because he had driven for 30 mins to get here and he had to drive back through worse traffic. Each to their own but I won't be giving up on using it myself but of course you don't over do it, I only use it to wake a motor up
Don't learn without asking sometimes.
