OutdoorKing Repair Forum Forums The History Forum The Old Soap Box RESPONSE to Theo's Patents

This topic is a RESPONSE to Greenfield's patents from the 1960s, 1970s & 1980s.
https://www.outdoorking-forum.com.au/forum/u...FIELD_-_Theo_Reinhold_Pat.html#Post78614

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Gday Jack, G'day All,

As always, interesting reading Jack.

Just wanted to comment that all those patents (except for the scooter) found their way into production. The height adjust and drive mechanism are self explanatory. His ideas about a spring and ratchet tensioner took on another (and more elegant) form and works very effectively.

SD has already commented on the catcher.

The idea of having a quick disconnect cutter deck found its way onto the red Greenies. Perhaps not his best idea and it was short lived in production.

......and that scooter. Who'd have thought a three wheel scooter was patentable.

And I suspect he (and perhaps the Greenfield organisation collected a good few patents during the eighties and nineties too.

Cheers,

G'day prd
Yes a good response to that.
Many thanks for confirming that these patents did see production.

There are many more patents to catalogue and record.
My next one will just cover the 1980s - as there are about a dozen
patents covering various components.

I note in the short article from Power Equipment Mag that Theo's first
product (after leaving Rover) was a golf cart called the 'Birdie'.
I have found nothing more on that one.

https://www.outdoorking-forum.com.au/forum/u...REINHOLD_-_Rover_and_Gree.html#Post77836

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Jack

Morning all,

Thanks once again Jack.

The said abstract to the said patent document is said by myself to to unreadable because of the said use of the word said. We'll blame the lawyers

What were people doing to his machines that he thought the deck float needed such a rework. His old system with a chain link (mentioned in an earlier patent) is more that sufficient unless the operator is attempting to mow down, say, a small volcano. A case of trying to stupid-proof a machine?

The idea is a clever one and the bloke had a natural gift when it came to geometry. My only comment is that the front of the deck has no float. It is attached to the adjuster link by fixed rods. I'd have thought this would be a down side?

I don't think this idea made it past the XL's and into the tractor range. Perhaps it was ultimately deemed too complicated or unnecessary. Might have taken a bit to get that layout onto the tractors.

I mentioned once before in another thread (the one where NormK was repairing his XL) that my parents were looking to buy an XL as it was a little cheaper than a tractor 8 but mum couldn't adjust the deck height on the XL - it was too heavy so they got a Tractor8 instead. It is still my daily drive. I guess the 'heaviness' could have been overcome with a longer height adjust lever or a slight tweak in the design somewhere.

G'day prd

Your said piece was well said.

I don't think fully floating decks are common on small cut ride-ons.
I have just posted Theo's second patent in the 1980s - concerning the
blade engaging mechanism. It will be interesting to see what you make
of that.

Gadge has just pointed me to a link on the Stallion.
It appears to be an XL, but without the Greenfield Drive.

I can't say I understand the rationale behind the XL.
Surely the Greendrive Drive would have made it much more
expensive than Rover Colts and Victa 5/26s, etc.

Let's kill all the lawyers.
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Jack

G'day all,

With reference to your closing line above:,
Oooohh, Jack, can we? Can we please??

My knowledge of later Greenfield stuff is poor. Did Theo ever use a system where the cutters were engaged by moving the deck or the threaded clutch hub system? My understanding is that he didn't but... Can someone shed light here?

I kinda reckon moving the deck to engage the blades is a bit like moving the mountain to Muhammad. But his idea of using a 'lock link' to more positively disengage the drive is clever.

The threaded drive hub. Was it ever used? The manufacturing issues relating to the square drive have been solved these days by CNC milling? That said ite threaded idea has a certain elegance.
He discusses milling the square drive into both the male and female hub halves. Strikes me that this would be a nightmare as both would have to be aligned once the halves are screwed together, or it would have to be milled after the two halves were screwed together. And if the thread tightened or loosed in service the whole think would bind on the square shaft. A better idea would be if the male half only was cut to fit the square shaft and extended to support the female hub? Perhaps I've read it wrong.
Also, unless the shaft was made very precisely with good tolerances shimming might still be needed to minimise pedal travel? And some sort of centring spring arrangement will be needed to place the system in neutral with foot off?

Just an interested enthusiast who would like to understand this stuff better.

Cheers,

Hi prd
Your very much an expert comapared to this black - and confused - cat.

Yes, a brilliant metaphor there.
Just wait here while I write that down ...
Perhaps the patent reflects, then, Theo's involvement with the
Rover Ranger in the early 1960s. An interesting question there...

I can't say I have the experience to understand the second point about
the drive hub, but I appreciate your points and their importance.

It appears to me, so far, that Theo was always thinking about
reducing maintenance on his clever and beloved drive system. He
thought about automatic belt adjusters and the like. The task of
keeping a wearing mechanical drive 'in tune' must have kept his
mind busy. I would doubt he was ever confused - unlike me.

I hope technical 'Greenies' like yourself will continue to contribute.
I feel many members like reading about ideas but, like myself,
simply do not have comfortable responses.

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Jack

prd I have rebuilt both, a 5XL and a Stallion, and from memory both move the deck to engage the cutter, very simple easy setup. I believe the 5XL is a better machine because of the heel/toe drive. I had to fit a disc brake to the Stallion because if you used it on hilly ground and you had to stop you were in big trouble because they were only fitted with a park brake that could only engage when it was stationary. Move the gear lever out of forward/reverse and they become a billy cart, straight down the hill. Not one of Theos better designs

Evening Jack, Norm and folks,

Jack, Rover had Ride-ons back when Theo was there? Gotta confess I'd not thought about this. Kinda assumed they came along later. We're always a-learnin'.

I reckon the guy was always, always thinking and enjoyed engineering and geometric puzzles. I can imagine he had a drawing board at home and at work and perhaps a substantial workshop at home too and that he knew well the hold of the 2am epiphany!

It seemed he patented everything. Understandable given that most of his ideas were brilliant in their simplicity and therefore so very copy-able. And it appears from what I've read that he still had to fight in court to protect his intellectual property.


Norm, Didn't know the 'step thru' models engaged the deck like that. Always a-learnin'.

The Stallion came after the XL? If so why did he abandon the trusty drive system, I wonder?
Also, where, I wonder, did the deck patent fit into this timeline. Did both models have the 'lock link'?

Cheers,

P.S. Just an interested amateur Jack

prd, one thing that didn't impress me on the 5XL was the cutter height adjustment, never really figured it out, the one I repaired was in a pretty bad state when I got it. It seemed like an abomination so I modified it so the deck could be raised and lowered without using the rear deck wheels as part of the raising and lowering. From what I could see of it, Theo must have been overseas when the design was slipped into production. The Stallion was a better machine apart from the gearbox/no brake setup

G'day again Norm,

Theo felt enough of the idea to patent it and I reckon we gotta acknowledge that the design is clever. That said I wouldn't doubt that with time, age,rust, wear and gunk it might become a bit of a hassle.

Cheers,