OutdoorKing Repair Forum Forums Repairs and Maintenance Questions on Walk Behind Lawn Mower Frames Question On Scott Bonnar Cylinder Mowers Honda Engine to Suit Model 45

HI guys, I am nearing the end of my resto of the 20 inch single deck 45. I will be ordering a new motor this week, so just wanted to run some thoughts past you all. Machine came with the "Kirby" intact, but munted!! I have used Hondas and Kohlers in my landscape business last 15 years with no problems.

Will a Honda GX120 "bolt straight on". I will give them the old motor and tell them to match.

I read clearing the handle bars can be a problem with the older mowers.

Happy to pay $$$ for the Honda, as you get what you pay for. Your thoughts appreciated.
Just waiting on reel, bed knife and chroming to be finished, Thanks Llew

Hi Llew,

The GX120 will fit straight on.

If you have any clearance issues which I'm sure you won't with it being a 20 inch machine. If you do require them some special handle adapter plates are available nowadays so that late model engines can be fitted to Series one machines and series two machines that had Kirby's fitted as original equipment.

Cheers,
BB

Brilliant. Thanks BB. I will put up pictures when totally finished.
Do you know if these Hondas are made in Japan?

Tiawan I think

Hi Llew,

All the non significant stuff including all their lower level cars is now made in Taiwan.

Cheers,
BB

Hi Llew,

Do you still have the old Kirby laying around ?

Cheers
BB

Llew,
Just one thing about the Honda GX120, you'll need to order it with the 3/4" imperial PTO shaft, not the 18mm metric one.

The Kirby PTO shaft size should be 3/4", so the old clutch half will fit.

Gadge is 19mm 3/4"

/itm/HONDA-GX120-ENGINE-BRAND-NEW-GENUINE-KEYED-SHAFT-19MM-PICK-UP-OR-POSTED-/321943243680?hash=item4af5500ba0:g:5t8AAOSw14xWPGsm

G'day Norm,
Close - 3/4" is 19.05mm. Honda designation is 'Type Q' PTO, as per their drawing below.

Norm to convert imperial to metric you can bookmark a page on the internet on your phone or remember that 1" is 25.4mm
so
3/4 inch
25.4 divided by 4 (dividing one inch into quarters)
1/4 inch is 6.35mm
times 3 (to give 3 quarters of an inch)
19.05
Alternatively, some drill bit manufacturers have printed conversion charts available for the garage wall.

Slash, I usually work to the nearest 1/4" I can't read those millimeter things they are too small

yep sure do

Hi Norm im having trouble opening that link. Can you check and resend thanks Llew

The link above isn't the complete URL. But the price does look good, even with freight. Looks like a 'grey import' though, so no Honda Aust warranty on it.

Try this one;
www.ebay.com.au/itm/HONDA-GX120-ENG...FT-19MM-PICK-UP-OR-POSTED-/321943243680?

Hi Gadge,

I'm pretty sure that Kirby's aren't 3/4 size shafts. Most HK motors are 5/8 in size, but these Chondas are generally 19mm shafts, thus an upsized clutch half will be required.

Cheers,
BB.

Bloody hell Norm, the nearest 1/4"? You sound like a boilermaker measuring in thumbs and fists!

No worries BB,
I stand corrected - looked up a few old ODK posts, and the only one which mentioned HK30 shaft size said that it was 3/4".

Hi Gadge,

Basically how it worked was that both engine suppliers, that being Kirby and later on Briggs offered SB engines that would've been over stocks at a discounted prices from time to time, most engines had 5/8 shafts while motors that were being cleared at a cheaper price were generally 3/4 shaft units, thus the two different size clutch halves so as to benefit from the savings.

Cheers,
BB

G'day all,
Ah righto then, looks like it can be a bit of a lucky dip, on which size a particular machine has.

And on Honda countries of manufacture, their website says that the GX series are made in three of Honda's six small engine plants; Japan, Thailand and China - http://engines.honda.com/oem-resources/manufacturing-locations

Thanks guys for all the info. Will be sticking with the real McCoy Honda. Rang Haughton Honda and will order soon. Thanks again.

Ouch...honda motor $660. Plus would have to change clutch housing. Will have to re think this.

Llew, plenty of cheap horizontal shaft motors out there,$120/150, find somebody with a lathe and they could bore and sleve the clutch hub to suit the shaft you end up with. Just need to check the motor height, shaft center to base so the clutch will line up correctly.
Here is one with a 3/4" shaft
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/6-5-HP-OHV-ENGINE-Horizontal-3-4-straight-shaft-GR8-4-GO-KARTS-Logsplitters-/301286684541?hash=item462615f77d:g:ytIAAOSwRLZT9eE5

Not sure it may be a bit wide but there is plenty of these just put into ebay, horizontal shaft motors

G'day Llew,
You can see why we reckoned that FleaBay engine was a good price! BTW, it is a real Honda I'd say, not a chonda - just not sold via the Honda dealer network, so no factory warranty.

A decent alternative these days is the Briggs 550 OHV 3.5hp, for around $270 [from Powermowers Adelaide, for example - FleaBay user 'hemicrank']. Cast iron bore, ball main bearings, and available with 5/8" PTO shaft.

BB has done at least one of these swaps, IIRC.

Hi all,

The following is not meant to be a slur on what Mod Gadge has posted above, but rather the contrary, if you want the Honda name splashed all over it then what he has suggested is a really good deal and I'd definitely run with it.

Now from what I've learnt in the industry about Chonda's is that they are actually built by Honda as they use the same castings but with the Honda name not included within the rectangle on the block. Many parts on them such as air cleaners and other components internally actually have the Honda name on them. This pretty well tells us what Honda really didn't want us to know and that is that they are building them to challenge the budget market and thus they get both ends of it, the expensive and the cheap.

I've had several Chonda's and they will run day and night if you service them correctly and regularly change their oil. The only reason why some people have had a bad run with them is because in the first instance they didn't want to reach into their pockets and pay a fair price for an engine and those sort of people won't spend a dollar in servicing them either, thus the end result.

I have one here on a 20 inch Model 45 and it runs sweet as and it's around 6 ~ 7 years old now. Runs just like a Honda, mainly because it is one.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/4-stroke-Stationary-5-5hp-Motor-HORIZONTAL-SHAFT-ENGINE-/281140447544?hash=item417546c938:g:Q7YAAOSwNyFWeOWs

or

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/6-5-HP-Gasoline-Petrol-Engine-4-Stroke-Stationary-Engine-OHV-Horizontal-Shaft-/160765765462?hash=item256e62e756:g:DwYAAOSw5HJXKueQ

Buy one of these and a new 3/4 clutch half and you'll be miles in front and the height is no problems, exactly the same as the original Kirby or a Briggs.

Cheers,
BB.

No worries BB,
The 'same factory, different door' biz happens a lot in China, so it's no surprise that Jialing Honda is no exception.

What you say about tightarse buyers and servicing makes a lot of sense, too.

I reckon between us we've spelled out all of the re-engine options, so Llew can make an informed decision.

From what other Chonda owners have said though, these do need a full service, including valve clearances, before use.

Thanks guys for all the info/input.As my machine is solely for my use, I will go with the Briggs option. Jason at Trinity Mowers swears by them and he has always looked after my commercial machines. Thanks again everyone. Pictures soon.

Hi Llew and Mod Gadge,

The Current Briggs Sloper is a good option as it's very much a copy of the original Honda concept. You can pick them up at a sensible price.

Trinity Mowers here in Adelaide are a fairly good opperation compared to some which are deplorable which only have their pockets in mind. I used to deal with a particular shop here in the North East and they can't compete with internet prices and have told me many times that the send so many customers away and tell them to buy off the net as they can't afford to sell at the prices on some high volume selling items. All this tells me is that another shop will be closing down in the near future. Honestly though, some deserve no better.

Cheers,
BB.

Tis the way of the world now, labor has become too expensive, things like mowers have become cheap because of China so there is no way many mower shops can survive regardless of the service they could provide, so it is easy to understand their attitude because they know they are going to go broke whatever they try and do.I sympathize with them because there is no future for them, no more than there is no future for dairy farmers in Vic, problem is they are now in a situation where they couldn't even give there cows and farms away, nobody in their right mind would want to enter that industry

For me it's all about how quick they can repair my machines. My honda commercial came off the trailer and smashed the front wheels. Jason had it all fixed same day!!! He has also beaten all internet pricing.Also he carries quite a good range of SB parts. Far superior to my previous lawnmower shop. Service is the key.

Hi Llew and NormK,

I couldn't agree more with Llew, some of the shop owners have moved with the times and are still providing a service and parts at a sensible price, while others are still trying to survive in the old world and rip everyone off that walks in through the door. Trinity's are doing it the right way and I've had first hand experience with them, sadly they are a bit to far away for me, so the internet is my next best option.

and NormK,
Couldn't agree with you more, don't get me started on the Milk industry as years ago everything was regulated by boards of various kinds and thus everyone could survive and make a living, but once all the boards were torn down and deregulation happened then the greed came in to play and it became a dog eat dog world.
If there''s anyone to blame take a good look at Coles and Woolies, they are the ones controlling the industries and we're playing right into their hands. Eventually the Duopoly will own everything along with the Asian Consortiums that are setting up their own food supplies and leaving us with nothing but a fist full of worthless dollars. Who do we blame ?? I know exactly who and I wouldn't vote for any of them.

Anyway it's best getting off of politics as I'll never stop.

Cheers,
BB