OutdoorKing Repair Forum Forums Repairs and Maintenance Questions on Walk Behind Lawn Mower Frames Victa Lawn Mower Frames Victa Mayfair: Help identifying my new mower

Hi everyone!

I'm new to the forum but I have browsed many threads here within the past few days trying to identify my new, old mower.
This was recently given to me by the owner of the local mower shop and after cleaning it up and stripping, cleaning and re-assembling the carburettor, it starts and runs like a dream.
Turn fuel tap on, set throttle to start position, wind crank handle till it stops (4 turns), prime carbie and pull spring release lever. Fires first time every time, hot or cold.

I believe it's a 65-66 Scott Bonnar with what seems like may be a Villiers engine. It's definitely not the Victa G3 Carburettor (I stripped, cleaned and rebuilt it in near dark conditions in under 15 minutes with a strange familiarity I can't explain. Previous experience with villiers back in the 70's).

The engine is a little smoky and I need to identify the engine to obtain the correct rings.
The mower is in amazing condition for something I believe may be around 50 years old. Complete with mulch capabilities I'd never even heard of in my childhood.












Thanks!

i think it is a Mayfair, if you scroll right down on this page you will find one that looks just like yours!

Yep, a 1960's Victa-made 125cc Mayfair 2, I'd agree. Could be either of Model 529 or 539, going by the engine number.
It's in exceptional nick for its age, too.

The carby is a Victa 3L, and a carby service manual download is on THIS page - the Metal & G3 one. The 125cc/160cc Specs doco [Section 3] will also be useful for engine service info.
Note that only the top [numbered] section document links there are free downloads - the rest require a subscription.

The correct fuel/oil mix is 25:1. How does the compression feel? It may not need rings; they don't have much influence on smoke, in a 2-stroke.

Thank you for the assistance.
I'd already assumed it was the Mayfair 2 but finding information online was near impossible for me. All the Mayfair's I could find where the later plastic fuel tank/cover units like my father had when I was a boy.

The compression is actually incredible, I'm going to remove the plug and stick my compression tester in later, if it ever stops storming here, Thankfully, without the decompression valve of the later victa's you can easy feel it (heaven knows why a small 2 stroke engine needs a decompression valve.

It works better than any mower I've used over the past 45 odd years and is a darn sight easier to push than a horrid MTD 4 stroke mower with that nasty American made B&S cheap, nasty, worse than Chinese made engine I used to own.

I started it up first time at 9:00PM after somewhat heavy rain most of the day and idled it through a patch of 2' high (600mm for the youngens here) wet grass and weeds and it didn't even look like choking. Everything else I've owned or used would always die in that patch. Plus with the mulch it leaves small cuttings, no need to rake.

A warm welcome to the ODK Forums, Leo.

The second pair of blades are actually 'lifters', to pick up the clippings and blow them into a catcher.
Mulching mowers weren't even on the horizon, when that machine was built!

Those plastic cowl/tank Mayfairs were 1970's models, up to about 1980 in their 'store brand' guise. And the same catcher was used on all the low arch chassis models, from yours until 1980; the Model 15 as listed HERE.

By the way, we do have a specific forum for 'Identification of Particular Machines', so don't be surprised if this topic gets moved to it.

i wonder if these mowers are meant to have the red air filter, i saw once that someone believed the red ones were for department store Victa specials, but i am unsure now that i have seen this

Well, this model was the 'stencil' [aka store] brand of that era, so the red air filter could well be correct. This machine does look very original, but the brand decal is missing. So it could well have been a store brand originally. Six o'one / half a dozen of t'other, really.

Mayfair and Barclay were the brands that Victa put on these models, if the retailer didn't specify their own label. Or they didn't place a big enough order to get the 'own brand' option.

Hi Gadge, Leo and Kye

I have moved this to Victa Frames.
This is a great find, and Kye identified it and Gadge has given a
comprehensive summary.

This is the first model Mayfair. At this time Barclay was reserved for the Pace,
and I believe the nameplate decal would have said 'Mayfair'.
[The name 'Victa' would not appear on the first model.]
eBay's Silensmessor should be able to assist with a replacement decal.



Hope this helps.
--------------------------
Jack

Thanks again everyone!
I was fortunate enough to have the mower shop give it to me at no charge though I have cleaned it up, spent about 3 hours on it in total including stripping and rebuilding the carburettor. It doesn't look like the old, dead machine I was given though, it's amazing what petrol, water and a bit of polish can do (only done roughly).

My apologies for posting in the wrong forum. I looked but obviously didn't scroll down far enough to see the correct forum.
I'm a global mod on a site with in excess of 2,000,000 members and am familiar with most forum rules and policies.
No, not a pron forum, I'm only interested in things which work.....


I'd never heard of mulching blades in the day though they do serve to reduce the clutter of the grass if I pull it backwards over the freshly cut trimming. Not exactly mulch but nowhere near the piles I used to have after mowing.

This is the mower equivalent of the push up bra I guess, the blades lift and separate. :Haha:

I'm going to attach some thin stainless steel strips along the edges at the widest points on the mower. I know it takes it from original but I noticed yesterday while mowing I dragged the widest points along concrete edges and that's obviously what's already lead to the scratches and grooves in the alloy base. At least this way I won't rip the aluminium away further.

This is to be my regular use mower, not a collectable. It went through my lawn yesterday after a heavy downpour and my grass was around 1.5' to 2' (450mm-600mm) high and very wet. I've never had a mower work so well in my yard and I've tried a few. Illness prevents me from mowing regularly and the neighbour I usually pay to mow is complaining "it's too hot, too windy, too wet", too lazy!

Oh, how exactly would I identify the engine in this machine?
I see from replies here there were 3 different engines.

I know this may be listed in one of the forums somewhere and, if it is if anyone could point me to the right place I'll search for the answers but, my current unfamiliarity with the forum causes issues.

I've not seen any numbers other than in the photo I posted on the crankcase but it doesn't contain model information I can interpret.

To the air filter, does anyone know whether it's supposed to actually have a filter in the enclosure or is the mesh sides the filtering?

I'm guessing it's supposed to have a paper cartridge type filter but it currently has nothing.
The red cap is old and fragile and I'm afraid if I try to remove it it will break apart (I tried to gently lift it but it was breaking up in my fingers).

[Re: Red filter body/canister, see this other members thread, same filter canister set-up, same colour:]
https://www.outdoorking-forum.com.au/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=53937

Would anyone have any idea where I may obtain another cap, preferably somewhat original (reproduction of original)?

Hello Leo and Contributors

I guess that's the tip of the iceberg.
The issue of the development of blades and blade holders is a topic in itself.

Victa, like all manufacturers, was part of the evolution of grass catching technology.
When they introduced their catcher mowers their solution was to offer the 'traditional'
cutting blades and added two lifting blades (as Mod Gadge has said).

Victa would quickly learn that these two functions could be combined into the fluted
cutting blade. That is what we have today. To a degree, any mower with a skirt and
fluted blades (or flutes built into the bladeholder) could be considered a 'mulcher';
in that grass may be cut multiple times before discharge ...

Your fourth photo (above) seems to show that the jet ramp (for catching) has become
dislodged. This needs to be re-attached.

More correctly, the first Mayfair had three different variants of the same engine.
I hope to deal with that topic tomorrow.

Yep, that's awesome. It should deliver faithful service.


The mesh sides are the only filtering agent!
This is really all engines had before better filtering systems.
The Mayfair, being a 'stencil' brand was originally fitted with old technology.
This would quickly change.

I feel you need to change the filtration; given this is a daily driver.
A member may be able to help with the cartridge design that would work with
the particular engine and carby specifications.

The cap? I guess you mean the 'petrol' cap?
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/victa18-fuel-cap-/251105828829

Hope this helps.
-------------------
Jack

The metal mesh screen was what Victa fitted to their entry level 2-strokes, back then [it was a carryover from the 1950's Victa 2-strokes]. Old plastic bits typically get brittle and crumbly with age, and this part is long unavailable. Those rubber snorkels are not available now either, though there is still the odd NOS one to be found.

At that time, the higher end mowers with snorkels got paper cartridge filters, and the non-snorkel models had either paper or oiled foam filters.

The engine number dates this one to 1966, so it could be either of a 17N or 17CG engine.

However, that doesn't make any practical difference, really. While the magnetos are slightly different types, the replaceable parts [points and condenser - the coil has now been discontinued] are identical, as are the more commonly replaced engine parts - seals, gaskets, rings and bearings.

A PDF download of the original Victa 'Green Book' parts list, which covers these magnetos and the 3L carby is
HERE .

New [tho' non-genuine] blades are still available; Victa part numbers are CA09150S [cutter] and CA09174S [lifter]. Both use Bolt/Washer set CA09164S.

Hello Gadge

Very helpful to Leo, I'm sure...
Perhaps you could address this question too:
https://www.outdoorking-forum.com.au/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=71977#Post71977

-----------------
Jack

Yes, on the front most rivet mounting, the steel ramp has torn out and has now broken the nose off. It was already heavily damaged and had been hitting the blades long before I took ownership. I intend replacing the whole ramp structure with some aluminium sheet I have.

It wasn't the fuel cap I was interested in, it was the cover over the air filter.
May be the first application I could think of to warrant the purchase of a 3D printer. I better take some digital photos and measurements just in case I decide on doing this, or remove the entire cannister intact and do a 3d scan for printing (done with an xbox 360 kinect and free software on the pc if anyone is interested)

The snorkel decided to vibrate itself to death at the carburettor point, it was already rotted there when I got it. Lucky for me I mowed the other day after some heavy rain and there was little to no dust because it would have gone straight into the carbie and engine.
I removed the carbie again and it's as clean as when after I first cleaned it.

I also found I had an identical carbie and throttle control/cable I'd removed long ago from a small, German made engine on an old brush cutter I'd picked up at the tip. It was a former council owned device.
I gave the little engine to a friend (I still don't know why, it was like new) but denied him the carburettor instead figuring it would be better than the plastic junk on my whipper snipper.
The carburettor is cleaner and in better condition than the mowers original and I may swap it out. I measured the jets and everything else, it's all identical.

My local mower shop will likely have a replacement snorkel on another old mower rotting in their yard (or NOS, being a small country town) and, if it's not rotted and torn I'll grab it. Otherwise it will be the equivalent diameter convoluted hose, readily available from auto gas fitters (I used to sell gas kits for forklifts and cars).


The points and condensers no longer available or just the coil?
I may look into swapping an electronic system on to it but then again, this thing runs so well as it is. I'd guess points and condenser are in near enough to new condition,

A big thank you again to all who've replied and helped with information, I really appreciate it!

The 'air strainer' was an assembly that wasn't meant to come apart, so it was only ever available complete.

Not surprised about the snorkel; it looked a bit kinked at the carby end bend in the pics. That only tended to happen when they were at end of life, and they always went soft at that point.

The points and condenser can still be had, but replacement with an electronic module eliminates any further routine maintenance, and can be done quite cheaply.

I would keep the original steel jet ramp for a pattern - I'm not sure how well aluminium will last there.

And a tip: after each use, turn the mower on its side, and hose the clipping residue out of the underside. The mower will cut better, and suffer much less corrosion. An old procedure, which has been almost lost since the takeover of Briggs engines, that don't like being tilted sideways.

I just found this mayfair on Ebay for $60. A little bit rough in some areas but still in a good and fixable condition.


Thanks for reading!
Kye.

Hello all contributors

I note the red handle grips - again.
It is a real possibility that the original plastic filter was indeed red,
to match the grips and the wheel caps.
The filter on the one above is an earlier design (not original).

Cheers
----------------------
Jack

Related Reading:-
https://www.outdoorking-forum.com.au/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=72163
https://www.outdoorking-forum.com.au/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=72165

I still have the original ramp. I can make it from thin sheet steel or aluminium, I have both laying around.

I've already been giving the mower a good hose down after it cools, including turning it over and making sure the underside is clean. Grass is corrosive and I intend having the mower for a good while.

The red hand grips have the double arrow insignia as does the base so I know they're original.

The Mayfair pictured on ebay that Kye posted even has the catcher, what a bargain considering the catchers seem to be listed at $100 or thereabouts.

I don't really know about collective value of old mowers, I just need a mower which works and this one runs like a dream. I would like to keep it in reasonable condition though, more for the sake of preserving a bit of Aussie history which sadly seems to be fading fast.

I read about the Galmet paint no longer available in hammer tone finish in Victa colours but where would I actually find out what this models colour was even called?
It's not the Avocado green, which by the way is readily available from Timberfix (Galmet brand).
I'd seen mention about the paints in another section but have little idea of colours. Being colour blind isn't a huge advantage exactly either.

That catcher on the FleaBay mower isn't in all that good condition; it's had a couple of 'tenant improvement' repairs.
Still not too bad for a ~50 year old steel catcher, though!

The low arch Mayfair chassis changed very little over its manufacturing run, so I'd be fairly sure that the later plastic 'Model 15' catcher would fit your mower, and be easier to find than the tin one - this one, shown in a recent thread [Pic credit: seanw]


An older Victa 125 mower is about as durable as it gets - they are nearly impossible to wear out, barring user idiocies like 'straight-fuelling' [not adding oil to the fuel], which happens to them all too often, these days.

For a 'regular use' mower, I would strongly recommend fitting a paper element air filter unit. Not hard to pick up secondhand from tip shops, or probably your local shop who gave you the mower. Won't affect the mixture appreciably; we used to fit the NLA AF07381A short filter to the early models in the 1970's.
This one:

I'm not overly fussed on a catcher, I never use them. I just figured I wouldn't mind having one as part of the unit.
It's not collectible like my antique cameras and radios (and other old junk) but I like old stuff.
There was something about how things were made to last.

Health dictates my lawn is often beyond catcher means before it gets mowed.

Like I explained to a fellow who mowed my place once then went to sweep the paths "They'll expect it all the time, don't do that to me!" :Haha: (I know, the haha emoticon I'm familiar with on another forum doesn't work here, habit)

I will look into a filter for the unit, I'm not fond of unfiltered dusty air, rode motorcycles in dirt too long to like that. I may temporarily just pull a fine stocking over the cannister till I get a housing (which I'm sure the mower shop would give me). I want to care for the engine a little.

You say an air filter won't affect mixtures?
I was wondering about that, the old 3L carburettor isn't big on variable features, it is as it is and it just works. I guess I could get a modified jet if I really wanted it but I have no idea where, other than have an engineer friend turn a few variances up for trial.

I just remembered something I've wanted to ask.
The height adjuster for the wheels. It uses a fluted type steel half moon bracket. Mine has considerable wear and while I can remove it and possibly build the rails up with my MIG welder it would be a painstaking experience. I guess a gas torch and brazing rod would suffice.
Are there after market type replica's made for these old things or would I have to make some dies and hopefully stamp it out with my 12 ton workshop press?
I'd be interested in a bracket with slightly less wear if it's available anywhere?

Thanks again!

Hi mate,

If you want a steel catcher for it I have listed my old junker on ebay for $0.99. It's been up off and on for a while with no takers. I've listed condition as poor but really it's not terrible. If you have know someone who is travelling from Adelaide to you anytime soon sing out and you can have it. It has a few bodge modifications from previous owner (Not sure what he was trying to achieve). If no-one wants it it's off to the scrap man eventually.

It's not worth posting so if you don't get a free ride I wouldn't bother grabbing it.

Thanks,
Pete

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/262276904885?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649