OutdoorKing Repair Forum Forums Repairs and Maintenance Questions On Ride On Mowers Questions on Greenfield Ride On Mower Frames Greenfield MkII Evolution Ride-on - Wiring

Hi,

I have an old Greenfield Ride on mower that has never been started with a key, it's always been stared using the pull rope, very tiring after awhile.

I would like to get this machine to start as it should, that is, with use of key and ignition wires to the starter motor.


It has been used by other people in the past and looks like some idiot never wired it properly, the safety switch wire that goes to the back seat has disappeared long time ago.

Can anyone show / let me know which wire goes to where? I had a look at the diagram but I cant read diagrams that well. I'm 56.

Battery is fully charged, checked with battery charger, need to know what colour wire goes to where.

Also the original Briggs and Stratton Motor that was original has been swapped / changed with a Honda motor.

Any help would be appreciated.

Cheers, Bondy

Just need help in sorting out the wiring, if anyone on this forum can assist.

Was about to post a few pics on here but no can do as there is no add picture icon
Thanks

Hello bondy99

Yes, pictures will help members.

For information on how to add pictures click HERE.

Hope this helps.
-------------------------
Jack

These photos relate to the Greenfield Ride on Mower. I did try to make the pics clear but could not get the right angle to show the entire electrical wiring . i.e. from the key switch, through to some other block connector then to the starter on the mower.

Hope these pics are helpful

Thanks for the help in showing me hoe to load these pics.

Cheers, Bondy99

Hello Bondy,
The previous owner may have just missed something.

I have never worked on Greenfield wiring, but the principles should be similar.

If you have a seat switch, you must be sitting on the seat, to allow the engine to start.

If this wire is missing (blue wire), then 12 volts wont be applied to the coil of your start solenoid (white wire in your 3rd image), when you turn the ignition switch to the start position.

You can bridge out your seat switch, but it is a safety issue, as the engine wont cut out if you come of the seat for what ever reason.

The first test I would do, is to see if 12v is being applied to the coil of your start solenoid when the key is turned to the start position. (white wire)
You will need a dc volt meter or a 12v test lamp to do this.

If the result is zero volts, then you will have to fault find the seat switch wiring.
The aim is to ensure the wiring is continuous through the seat switch and then to the start coil
terminal.

Another test you can do to see if the starter motor is working, is to directly connect a 12v test lead to the solenoid start terminal.
To prevent any short circuit, connect a wire to the solenoid start terminal first, then touch it to the positive terminal of your battery.

G'day Bondy and Mark,

Sure looks like a bit of a rats nest. The first thing I noticed is that there are two solenoids and you only need one. In the original engine setup the one mounted to the frame was used and then the Honda was fitted that has its own next to the starter. I'd be using the new one on the engine.
There also looks to be a good few cut wires and joins.
Can I suggest you draw a mud map of all the wiring and how it connects and colours so we can see what you've got. It's a crummy job but it's maybe the best way of knowing what you've got.
It may end up that the best thing to do is just rewire the thing from scratch.....but let's not get carried away just yet

Also, a question for Mark. I may learn something here. I thought/ assumed that the seat switch/blue wire is a magneto kill, not a starter control.

Hello prd,
Nice pick up on the 2nd solenoid, didn't know Honda did that.
Yes, seat unoccupied should kill spark.

Regarding most ride ons, safety switches, in general, don't they want you to be sitting in the seat, blades disengaged, foot on the brake before power can be applied to the coil to start the engine?

Would like to hear of others experiences.

I did at one stage draw out how the safeties are all interconnected with the magneto and solenoid.
If I find it I will upload it.

I understand that each ride on, brand or model will vary from one to the other.

This is an example of an MTD from memory.

Cheers Mark,

If you manage to hurt yourself after that amount of thought has gone into the safety system then you shouldn't be operating machinery.

Can we assume from the wiring diagramme from Greenfield and what I assume is a photo of the back of the ignition switch (Bondy, is that the back of the ignition switch in one of the photos?) that this beastie has a simple magneto kill arrangement?

Apologies Bondy for seemingly steering this topic off course but it is related to your problem.

Hi Mark and prd,

I've read through all the responses and advice, I'm overwhelmed at this point in time, I too did not realise there was two solenoids, I thought there was only one.

You are correct wiring is dodgey. There was a wire running from the rear seat with some type of safety switch (it was removed). I don't know why it was removed, I am aware the elderly bloke was not safety conscious , and the fella that used it in the past was bit of "she'll be right" type of bloke.

The ignition switch (Key Switch in Greenfield Diagram) in one of the photos has a white wire, red wire and what looks like a blue wire going to it. Definitely has no engine hour meter or any other meter fitted.

Hmmm, as this mower has not been able to start with the ignition switch, it can't be killed with the ignition key either.

To stop the engine, after being set to idle at low revs for a few seconds, I undo the clps to flip the engine cover over, closed the fuel line to Off position, place cover back over engine and let the engine starve for fuel. Engine cuts off after awhile.

Since there are two Solenoids, which solenoid should be used? Wires going to two solenoids sounds silly to me.

Here's the photo of the Honda Motor specs. I don't have the wiring guide or any other details about this engine

Cheers, Bondy99

Thanks Bondy your response helps alot.

I stripped back the wiring to its bare bones, so you are looking at less.



G'day prd, does this look OK to you? Its what I think it should be. You can add in the saftey switch later. Try to get it working first.

So, The heavy red wires are switched closed by the solenoid, when the ignition switch is turned to start. At ignition switch red wire is switched to yellow wire (white on your machine).

When ignition switch is turned to stop, the blue wires are switched together, this is earthing out the magneto, stopping spark.

Can you test to see if you have 12v at the ignition switch. 2nd image, brown looking wire.
If not is their a blown fuse in that wire. Is there power on any of the other wires?

Remove any unnecessary wiring, it just adds to the confusion.

Morning Bondy,

It's always darkest before the dawn. Between us all we'll get this one sorted for you.

I'm not surprised the seat switch has been disarmed and that the magneto kill was not put through the ignition switch.

There are two seperate circuits that have been butchered. One is the start control and power, the other is the magneto cut-off. The magneto cut-off is nice and simple with an earth being provided to turn the ignition off. The replacement engine should have a standard arrangement where the magneto is grounded when the throttle lever is pushed to the max slow position. If this isn't how it's working then perhaps the lever is being stopped by the cable or the lever slot before it gets to the cut off point. This is something you can check out seperate to the wiring issues.

Ultimately we can look at putting the magneto kill through the ignition switch for convenience and sort out the seat switch but for now if you can get it to cut off with the throttle lever with an adjustment then we can concentrate on the start system first.

I'll take some photos and draw you a mud map of what the start system needs to look like. It might seem a bit overwhelming but it's not that complicated. In the meantime if you can draw a mud map of what you have including wire colour, dead ends, etc it could be a tremendous help.

Whoops,

Sorry Mark, I didn't see that you'd already replied before I hit send.

That's nice and clear. Excellent work.

That sketch shows the original solenoid. You can use it Bondy if it makes things easier for you. I like the idea of using the nice shiny new one

No matter which one you use, the wiring hook up is the same.



The only thing we haven't talked about is the charge (alternator) hook up. I'd say don't worry about that right now. Concentrate on the start. The alternator is only one more wire but we can deal with it after the beastie starts!

Thanks mark electric,

I'm impressed with the simple wiring, does take the confusion out of it. I have not tested the wires as yet, will check the wire using voltmeter tomorrow. I don't think there is a fuse but will go over the wires to see if there is a fuse.

Cheers, Bondy

G'day prd,

Thanks for your input. It's a mongrel to start, choke cable has been adjusted and tightened.

At this point in time, the air filter needs to come off, a rag placed over the filters' hole, turn fuel [Censored] to open, pull the rope to rotate motor, engine starts, take cloth away from air filer hole, refit air filter box , increase revs, wait a bit then use pedal to move mower forward or reverse.

I'll try to draw a mud map as to what I see on the mower, need a day or two and I'll have it up here.

Cheers, Bondy

No worries prd and mark electric,

The drawing made by Mark electric is good and clear, I'll rewire the mower to replicate it.

Will start on the wiring some time during the next day or two. Hopefully wont be too hot a day.

Cheers, Bondy

Morning Bondy and Mark,

Bondy, It sounds like the choke isn't closing on start. Sounds to me like you aren't getting full travel with the throttle lever/cable. This accounting for both the starting and stopping problems. I had the exact same problem when I fitted a Honda to my Greenie a couple years ago- starting was difficult. I took the air cleaner assembly off to physically sight the choke to see what was happening. It only closes at the very, very end of the lever travel. In my case the cable travel and lever slot cut into the panel were the limiting things. If I adjusted it a poofteenth too far, it wouldn't cut off in the stop position (not hitting the magneto kill contacts). A poofteenth the other way and I had no choke. My guess is you have neither.

To prove the fault I disconnected the cable at the engine and tried starting and stopping it with the lever on the engine.

They tell us it will be cooler after today

Hello prd and Mark electric,

Sounds like what it is. First things first.

I disconnected the original wires going to the original greenfield solenoid. I have enclosed pic of original Greenfield Solenoid.

I disconnected the wiring plug that went to the key (Ignition) switch.

See pic of key switch with 5 spade terminals and disconnected wire plug. Key switch is a bit dirty looking.

I notice there is some wire missing from the battery end of the cables, I assume the missing cable is related to the seat switch. I could not say if the actual seat switch is still under the seat or has been removed. Will check tomorrow.

I connected the positive (Red) cable from the battery directly to the solenoid on the Honda.

I have left all other wires disconnected at this stage.

See further pics

There seemed to be a lot of wires going to the original solenoid and quite a few wires coming from the switch.

Mark Electric...with reference to the less wires drawing you provided. Am I safe to assume that's the solenoid on the Honda motor or is that the solenoid on the frame of the Greenfield Mower?

I've seen a few red wires on that Greenfield.

I need to know where that small red wire that goes to the solenoid actually comes from. As there should only be one solenoid and not two, I've removed the original Greenfield located on the frame within the engine bay.

I'll only use the solenoid that's connected near the starter on the Honda Motor.

Here are the pics...It was a humid and sweaty day.

Hello Bondy,
First, I never assume that a solenoid or the ignition switch is serviceable, especially on a machine that is not starting.

Yes use the Honda solenoid. Just means you may have to extend some wiring.

Watch a utube video on how to test an ignition switch, using the continuity/bell setting on your multimeter.
If you clean the back of the ignition switch you may see some letters that will help.

M - magneto
S - Solenoid
L - lights
G - Ground / Earth
B - Battery

The small red wire feeds 12v from the solenoid to the ignition switch terminal (B - Battery).
It originates from one of the main terminals on top of the solenoid, must be the battery side terminal.

NOTE: In my wiring diagram, the main battery earth does not have to run from the battery to the engine, it can be connected to a good chassis earth near the battery.

Also watch a video on how to test a solenoid, it will help you understand and make your wiring job easier.
cheers

Changed diagram to better match Honda solenoid.



Honda solenoid start coil wires (black and black with white stripe) The black and white wire will connect to earth. The black wire will go to ignition switch (S - solenoid).

Hello Mark Electric,

No worries, There should be enough length of wire to do the job. I do have couple of small rolls of wire if required. Have some terminal connectors.

I should be able to use the existing earthed wire as is. No probs, I'll be looking at a few things via youtube.

Thanks for the updated Honda diagram.

Cheers, Bondy

G'day Bondy and Mark,

Mark, have a look at Bondy's close up photo of the Honda solenoid. I think it's stuffed. The can has been knocked and is loose?

I really am going to have to start using my eyes, thanks prd.
Might have to go for plan B, :-)

G'day Mark and prd,

Well, you could be right , that solenoid on the Honda mower is bit loose and does move slightly, I had to hold onto the top of the solenoid to stop it from spinning when I undone the nut holding the battery cable.

Anyway, I've placed the red battery cable back on the Honda solenoid.

Those letters on the Ignition switch was hard to find, the buggers were stamped on the other side of the spade terminals. I had to use good light and angle reflection to see them. I've marked the letters on the spade terminals facing outwards for easier identification.

I'm not keen in buying a Honda Solenoid to replace the other as it looks like a pain to remove it from the motor.

I noticed a black wire from the Honda Solenoid, could be attached to a white coloured wire going to the ignition switch harness. The Black wire with white stripe coming from the Honda solenoid is earthed near the solenoid.

I have tested the ignition switch without wires, it's good to use.

I've attached additional pics.

I have no idea about those other wires that are located near the oil filler pipe.

There are some wires going to what looks like to be the solenoid and the rest was just zipped tied.

There is a red wire with what looks like a fuse holder (no fuse), other wire that would connect with that one has either disappeared or been canabalised for something else.

There is another black or brown wire with a female bullet terminal covered with dust.

Cheers, Bondy

G'day Bondy and Mark,

That bunch of wires next to the filler? There should be two wires in that bundle. One is the alternator output wire and one may be a magneto kill- I'd have to check. The one with the fuse is the alternator wire the previous owner had going to the battery for charge.

You also show a fuzzy photo of a green wire and a red wire. If they are coming out of a little one inch square black cube (which I guess is the rectifier) then the red one is the alternator output I think, and should be the same wire with the fuse holder on it.

Not sure what you mean by a wire from this bundle going to the solenoid.

Given that the Honda solenoid is stuffed, I'd be putting the old greenfield solenoid back on and using it. That's what Mark meant by plan B I apologise for mucking you around on this one. The suggestion to use the Honda one was based on the assumption it was shiny and new.

Mark, do those switch numbers mean anything to you?

Yes prd,
Ignition switch:
M - magneto
S - Solenoid
L - lights
G - Ground / Earth
B - Battery

#So connect magneto kill wire to M - magneto

#Connect battery supply 12v to B - Battery (supply will come from a main terminal on top of the solenoid, battery supply side.) Should be a fuse protecting this cable.

#Connect an earth wire to G - Ground / Earth ( wire normally comes from under the base of the solenoid)

# connect a wire from S - Solenoid (this wire is run to the coil terminal on the solenoid) so, when you turn the key to start (spring loaded) 12v is then applied to the coil. The coil becomes an electromagnet and closes the main contacts, which then gives the starter motor a 12v supply.

The intent is to get the engine to start and stop from the ignition switch, then I would focus on the other circuits one at a time.

Hope this helps.

Good morning PRD and Mark Electric,

Thanks for providing me with assistance, it's all a learning curve for me.
Bit of shame the Honda solenoid is buggered, oh well its back to using the original Greenfield Solenoid.

PRD, yes the fuzzy photo with the wires are from that rectifier. No probs, if it was new and not dodgey I'd be using it.

I'll have to see if there are any markings on that solenoid so I don't get the wiring mixed up.

There are no fuses protecting any cable, I think the previous owner must have been a red neck and rough at that. What fuse rating would be required, I'll wire one up.

Which Magneto Kill wire are we talking about, is it the one coming from the Honda Mower?

Unfortunately my mind is not as sharp as it used to be, don't suppose you have a diagram of a Greenfield Solenoid as to where these wires go to?

Battery has never been charged, its reading 4.25volts.

I placed a battery charger n it few times, each time the charger says battery fully charged. Multimeter tells me different.

I'll be back later after I look at the mower again.

Cheers, Bondy

Hello Mark Electric and prd,

Hmmmm, Hope I'm not loosing my marbles anyway.

I've cleaned up the original Greenfield Solenoid, good job I kept the photo with the original wires going to it, but that would change now as some of those wires were also going to the Honda Solenoid which we now know is stuffed, not sure about power wise, I have never tested the Honda solenoid to see if it still gets power.

With reference to the Honda Solenoid, I managed to remove a rubber cap that was covering one of the terminals. I traced the wire on that terminal it comes straight from the Starter Motor.

It appears the Honda Solenoid is held in place by two small bolts, size not certain of, could be 5mm or so. They can be get at to remove entire solenoid if need be.

I have no idea if that Honda Solenoid can be replaced with another and where I could get it from if need be.

May as well start and run the wires from scratch. I've managed to get black, red, white and blue wire cable, all 20Amp rated.

Male and female bullet connectors as well as Male and Female spade connectors.

One Fuse connector with 20Amp fuse or could go 25 or 30 Amp

I'll use the existing battery cables for power and earthing requirements.

Here are those pics taken this arvo.

Cheers Bondy[img]

https://www.outdoorking-forum.com.au/forum/u...646-greenfield_solenoid_cleaned_copy.jpg[/img]

The Honda solenoid might still work. All that can really does is protect the innards, but it's copped a hit somehow.

You could try a continuity check across the black and black/white wires - that will tell you if the coil is OK, at least.
If it is, then try putting 12V [e.g. from a car battery] across the same wires - +ve to black. If it's still working, you'll hear/feel it click. A full function test will need a good battery, and it does sound like the one on the mower is cactus.


The GXV390 Owner Manual has some charging system wiring diagrams, and there are three types.
Download for your model is at http://cdn.powerequipment.honda.com/engines/pdf/manuals/00X37Z5N6111.pdf

Hi Gadge,

Thanks for your reply. I hope the Honda solenoid does work, it will save a lot of problems if it does.

I did have a continuity tester, unfortunately I've misplaced it, all I have now is a Digitech QM-1500 Multimeter, never came with instructions. I've got the red lead plugged in above the COM hole (Black lead plugged in the COM hole). I can check for voltage, not familiar with rest of the features on the multimeter.

One way to find out if that solenoid is useable. I agree, that battery is cactus, it's been neglected by previous owner.

Thanks for your advice and thanks for the link for that Honda motor.

Cheers, Bondy

That's a pretty basic multimeter - you can use either the lowest Ohms [Omega symbol] resistance range, or the audible continuity/diode check range [diode symbol], one click to the right of that. You have the leads in the correct sockets for these readings.

HERE is the distributor's product page for that one, which has a tab to download a brief manual. It's a bit 'Chinglish', though.

Hi Gadge,

Yep, it is a cheap one, I did see the Ohms range and the diode symbol.

The device I have dose not make any audio noise. I am most likely to purchase an upgraded version that has the continuity audio type. Same supplier Jaycar Electronics.

Thank for the download link.

Cheers, Bondy

Hi pr, Mark Electric and Gadge,

I'm Going to test the black and black/white stripe wires on the Honda Solenoid to see if they are still good.

If they are then I will use the Honda Solenoid. Will let you know if those wires and solenoid are good to go.

Cheers, Bondy

Hello prd, Mark electric and Gadge,

I've tested the black wire and black/white wire on the Honda solenoid, it still works.

I had a look at the electrical diagram that came with the PDF Honda Motors, I can't follow those diagrams.

The diagram that Mark made / modified is easier to follow.

Would this be correct.

M on Key switch connects with Magneto wire from Honda Mower.
G on key switch goes to Earth.
B on key switch goes to Battery via Positive terminal on Honda Solenoid.
L on key switch is not used as there are no lights.
S on key switch goes to Honda Solenoid......Is it the same positive terminal the battery lead and B lead from key switch connects to?

At this stage all needs to be done is having a charge wire installed somewhere to recharge the battery. What amp wire would you recommend?

Still not using Safety Cut off Switch (at this stage)

Cheers, Bondy

Hello Bondy,
I see you have tested the resistance of your solenoids coil, you should have read some amount of value on your meter.

M on Key switch connects with Magneto wire from Honda Mower. (Correct)
G on key switch goes to Earth. (Correct)
B on key switch goes to Battery via Positive terminal on Honda Solenoid. (Correct)
L on key switch is not used as there are no lights. (Correct)
S on key switch goes to Honda Solenoid......Is it the same positive terminal the battery lead and B lead from key switch connects to? (No)

S on key switch goes to the black wire on the solenoids coil.

Then when you turn the key switch to start, at the key switch B & S are closed, +12V is then applied to your solenoids coil, energising it, you should here a click like Gadge said.

The click is the main contacts of your solenoid closing, sending power to the starter motor.

Very important bondy, ensure you are not creating any short circuit during this rewire.
Check/test all your wiring prior to connecting it to the battery.

Cheers

G'day Folks,

Bondy, your getting close.

M to magneto wire on motor as you say. That should be the other wire in the bundle with the alternator wire. I'll check in the morning.

B to battery. This can be from the battery lead on the solenoid if you wish or straight from the battery positive. Either will work. It will need to be fused with the fuse as close as Is reasonably possible to the power source

G to ground as you say.

S is to the SMALL wire on the solenoid (this is the one which is black with the white stripe?).

The charge wire will go to the battery lead on the solenoid. Mark, do you agree the charge wire doesn't need to be switched? As this wire is very short it probably doesn't need to be fused. Do you agree Mark?

Don't be concerned about the wiring diagrams in the Honda manual. They're not important here. I think Gadge was trying to point out that there are three different alternator setups available. From the pics you posted it looks like there is only one green wire into the rectifier cube and one red wire out so you have the little 1A charge system. This is just background information.

Good news that the Honda solenoid still functions. As Gadge says the can protects the internals from muck and moisture. You will need to carefully re secure the top to it. Carefully reposition the rubber seal that is pinched in the photo and try to clip the top back down. It may just click back. If not you'll need to try and secure it with a tyrap or two and depending on the condition of the rubber seal once it's repositioned a nice thin bead of silicon may be the go too. The key here is that the top needs to be secured to the can and that the inside is protected from water a dirt.


Cheers,

G'day prd,
Image shows new solenoid with the earth lug on the black & white wire.
This is also how Bondys solenoid is wired in his images above.

I wasn't going to add confusion by talking about charging yet.

Regarding circuit protection.

The concept formula is:
Load current < or = fuse size < or = carry carrying capacity of cable.

load current in amps (must be less than or equal to) fuse size (must be less than or equal to) what the cable an carry in amps.

G'day again Bondy and Mark,

Sorry Bondy, the BLACK wire from the solenoid to the S terminal of the switch. My defence is that it was 3am

I agree Mark. I hadn't planned on discussing charging until it was starting either but Bondy asked about the charge wire. If you agree that the charge wire should go direct to the solenoid battery post and doesn't need to be fused then it's just as easy to do it now?

Bondy, can I suggest you send a bunch more photos of you finished wiring before you power up.

Mark, I'm so sorry, I just read back through the thread and have only just realised I replied over you again last night. That's the second time I've done that! Sorry. Who'd have thought we'd both be insomniacs!

It takes me some time to type anything...and while I'm mucking about you've got the problem sorted. Sorry for causing confusion guys.

Sincerest apologies again Mark.

Its all good, forums can be a funny thing.

I did another wiring diagram, let me know if its alright.



Thanks for everyone's input, I'm sure this thread will help others in the furure.

G'day mark electric and prd,

Thanks for the feedback on the wiring sequence re "key switch". prd, thanks for the suggestions regarding resealing the rubber cap to the can. I may have to use silicon.


I appreciate the new Honda solenoid image, from what I see on that solenoid I notice a black wire with an eye terminal connector, same one on mine is connected to earth.

The other one with a bullet terminal connector is Black with white stripe.

Cheers, Bondy

Hello mark electric and prd,

My apologies I did not notice there was a third page until I posted, I should have checked before hand, oh well, I blame lack of sleep on my part.

Mark, thanks for the revised wiring up image, I can follow this one, its clearer and simple to follow.

Prd, I'll take another photo once its been wired up prior to applying power. Probably some time this coming week.

Cheers, Bondy

prd

I've wired up the switch to the Honda solenoid.

Here are the pics in no particular order.

With reference to those bundle of wires, there was only two, one is red with half a fuse connector at the end. I found the other half of the plastic connector chewed up.

The other wire is coloured sort of white (covered by a shield cloth(, that's the one going to the Magneto so I've attached that one to the Magneto terminal on the key switch.

L is not used and not connected.

The other terminal on the Key Switch away from the others is another Earth / Ground terminal.

I have not colour corrected the cables as yet. I have temporarily used the existing wires as they are.

At this point in time I have not placed any fuse on the power supply until I work out what amp would be suitable.

Cheers, Bondy

Here are the pics.

G'day Bondy,

Important! I just went out and checked on my machine. The White wire with the 'shield' is NOT a magneto wire!! Looks like it is another alternator output ( AC for headlight from what I just measured). Remove this from the ignition switch and secure it so it can't short to ground. Do the same with the other alternator output as well if you aren't wiring it in for the moment. Don't let them short as it may damage the alternator.

I can't see a loose magneto connection on my machine for use by the end user. I wouldn't worry about it for now (or ever?) as you can shut it off with the magneto ground provided on the throttle lever once it's rigged correctly. If you want to put it through the ignition switch we can deal with that later.

I'd be securing the solenoid to the can before power-up too.

Sorry again for the bum steer.

If you used red for power and black for ground then switch is wired correctly based on the terminal lettering you gave us. That is to say correct except for my bum steer..

Apologies. The lesson here I guess is never assume.......

prd,

Thanks for letting me know about that shielded white wire, I'll disconnect it from the key switch tomorrow.

Surely there must be a wire that the Magneto on the Key Switch connects to. Finding that wire is a problem.

I've used Red wire for power and black for ground based on the terminal lettering.

The black wire on the Honda Solenoid is married up with a white wire going to the Key Switch (Ignition). The black wire with white stripe from the Honda solenoid is earthed under the can.

I'll silicon the top part of the solenoid sometime tomorrow/. I'll have to use the right type of silicon.

How does one start the mower electrically if there is no magneto wire to use?

Manually starting .i.e. pulling the rope is not always ideal. I run out of puff after 5 pulls of the rope.

Cheers. Bondy

Sorry again for the snafu Bondy

To start you'll just put the throttle in the choke/start position as normal and then by the power of electrickery turn the key instead of pulling a rope To stop the engine, push the throttle to the stop position as normal (once this is fixed)

The magneto wire grounds the magneto to stop the engine. With the throttle in anything but the full stop position the ground is removed and your good to go.

Any silicone sealant will do I think. Ordinary roof and gutter or something. Just not that muck that they claim you can use underwater.


Cheers,

Re: fuse size. Honda give nothing. A quick look at the inter web and 15 amp is often used. This should be heaps for that little solenoid and you've used good sized wire it seems so...15 amp.

Mark?

Yep; what I was getting at was that the number of charge wires, and their colours, can tell us which of the 3 this engine has. The 1A charge system is the simplest of them.

For sure. It will be a lot easier to do this if you take the solenoid off the engine first, I reckon.

Mark's pic of the new solenoid clearly shows how the 'retainer clips' on the can are punched inwards, to secure it to the top.
If the top wiggles fully back into place OK, punching these in again should work to secure it.

prd, thanks for that info re amps.

Gadge, I'll try to take the solenoid off and secure the top properly , the difficult part is getting to the bolt that holds it in situ.

I have not measured the bolt, I assume it's 5mm.

I'll find out later today / tomorrow.

Cheers, Bondy

I still have to work out where that Magneto wire is. I guess I would have to remove the head where the puller rope is and the top casing to find this magneto.

Wire could be anywhere.

Cheers, Bondy

reference fuse size.

I measured a solenoid coil I have here, similar to bondy's original one & got 4.1 Ohms .
Ohms law tells us I = V/R therefore I = 12.6V/4.1 Ohms gives 3 Amps.

Auto cable:
3mm 10 Amps Light Loads, Headlights, Stereo/UHF
4mm 15 Amps Driving lights, Compressor type fridges
5mm 25 Amps Power feed for other circuits

This formula ensures the fuse will blow before the cable melts.
IB < IN < 0.9 x IZ
Load Amps < Fuse size < 0.9 x 10 (3mm auto wire)
3 < 5 < 9

The figures above satisfy the formula (so, a 5A fuse should not blow while starting the engine)
A 10 A fuse would not be suitable, as the cables capacity will be exceeded to make a 10A fuse blow.
These are my best figures for using 3mm. 3mm automotive contains 16 x 0.3mm conductors or approximately 1.13mm�.

Some other diagrams that may help.
Your magnto kill wire should be going to the stop switch in the diagrams below.

mark electric,

Thanks for your help on the amperages

Mark, I can see in the diagram an Engine Stop Switch. Do I need to have a wire going from the terminal marked Magneto on the Key switch to the Magneto positive wire (where ever it is), still cant locate it on the Honda Engine I have.

Cheers, Peter

Bondy, Mark and Gadge,

Here I sit apologising for my second snafu in 24 hours! What you need at the moment Bondy is clear correct information. This sort of stuff from me isn't helping!

Mark, I'm embarrassed and ashamed. I know the maths and the theory. What's worse is that I have the exact same solenoid here that I could have measured and done the maths correctly. Instead I chose to hold a wet finger in the air and declare 'she'll be right'. And embarrassed that my 'estimation' was so far off! Not good.

For reference, I have just measured the solenoid. 3.2 ohms.

Bondy, my suggestion is that you leave the magneto wiring until it's cranking. That said, you seem keen to hook it up. I just did a bit of looking. I took the fuel tank off (it's only two bolts) the magneto wiring is there. There is no end user connection that I can see. If you choose, there is a wire into the throttle switch secured with a spade terminal. Cut the terminal off and connect a length of wire with a splice. Run this to your ignition switch. The wire is secured into a clip above the switch. You'll need to get the wire out of this clip to give you enough wire length to work with.

If your interested, I'll take a couple of photos.

.......but I suggest you get it cranking first and we can do this later.

Hi prd,

Oh dear, just goes to show we are all human hey! No worries I'll leave the magneto alone.

So, how do I get the starter to crank over using the key switch?

As far as I know of, its always been started by using the pull chord.

With the high temps and humidity of late, reverting back to starting by pulling the chord is not ideal.


I've removed the wire that's going to the terminal marked M for Magneto on the key switch.

If you can post a photo or two of that magneto wiring and the throttle switch, can always wire this up later onto the ignition switch.

Cheers, Bondy

G'day Bondy,

The magneto wiring is not required for you to be able to use the electric start. The magneto wiring is simply used to stop the engine- and we can do that with the switch that Honda has provided that is operated by the throttle lever.

Of course you'll need to find out why it's not working at the moment. I have the strong suspicion that this problem is related to the fact that is seems the choke isn't working either with the problem being that your not getting full travel of the throttle arm.

Once your electric start is up and working and the throttle travel thing is sorted you'll start the machine by placing the throttle to the choke position and then turning the key.

To stop the machine at the end of a hard days mowing you'll simply place the throttle lever to the stop position. Turning the key will have no effect here.

To confirm the throttle arm fault is caused by lack of cable travel, remove the cable completely from the engine and see that the throttle lever on the engine closes the choke in the start position and makes the magneto switch in the closed position.

prd,

Hmmmm, I'll have to take a photo and of the lever control and post it here. From memory I don't think this one has a Stop icon . I think the control position icons have disappeared, I have never seen a stop sign anywhere on this mower.

Always had to close the fuel line on the carby to stop the mower after being set at lower idle for about 30 seconds.

Wow, what a Greenfield mower I have, everything is dodgy on her.

I'll double check that throttle tomorrow after I come back from the dentist.

Cheers, Bondy

Good evening prd,

As stated previously here are the pics of the Throttle control, it has a picture pasted onto the top panel near the steering wheel saying choke, slow, but no stop.

It would have been more logical to put marks on the panel where the throttle handle goes up and down and clearly labelled with the Words, Choke, Stop, Slow. Idle etc.

Here's the pic, including the key switch.

Cheers, Bondy

That sure looks like a STOP to me, it's wired to stop off the key , not the throttle.

G'day Bondy,

The original engine was wired so that the engine was stopped by the ignition switch. You now have a different aftermarket engine that has the engine stop (magneto) controlled by the throttle lever. This can be altered by modifying the wiring behind the fuel tank as previously discussed. If you end up refitting the seat switch (as you should) this will need to be done eventually anyway. The suggestion that you leave this for now is so you can tackle one problem at a time.

Of course the stop/choke issue will need to be resolved. Have you had a chance to look at this yet?

How are you going with the rest of it. You should be close to power up?

hi prd, your right, that the Hondas have a micro switch mounted to the throttle plate that is pushed when the throttle is shut off, if it has been wired that way then it only needs to be checked that it's working, ( being pushed).
that would mean the starting issue is probably only a bad battery/ connection or both.
the seat switch when unplugged has no influence on anything. cheers, pete

G'day Squizzy,

Yeah your right, that is a stop sign on the key switch. As prd stated, the mower I have at present has a different aftermarket engine.

prd. no, have not wired up that seat switch, I have to purchase another switch. The original battery is cactus, needs a new battery but don't think i'll be paying big dollars just yet for a small battery , I should be able to source one a lot less price from a battery seller.

I had a go at removing the solenoid from the Honda , I can remove one bolt. it has an 8mm head. The other bolt is hard to get at, one needs a very small handle with a 50mm 1/4" bar extension, looks like too hard basket to remove from stater motor, so I'll put the other bolt back in tomorrow.

I still have not got around to rectifying the choke.

Cheers, Bondy

Hello prd and mark electric

I have made a wire to run from the positive terminal of the Honda Solenoid to the terminal marked Battery on the Key switch. There were two other wires that I had connected onto the terminals of the Key switch, one was more likely a charge wire of some description , the colour of that wire is white, it is enclosed in some type a cloth sheath, I've connected that to the terminal called Magneto on the Key switch. I take it that needs to be removed from the key switch as its not the Magneto wire.

The other wires which we discussed earlier are the wires from the Honda Solenoid, that is the black and another wire which is black with white stripe.

Just to be certain, the black wire on the Solenoid, Where does this go to on the Key switch?

The Black wire with the white stripe is Earthed / Grounded and is attached to the other solenoid securing bolt.

Just double checking before powering up with new battery.

Cheers, Bondy

good luck there bondy,

squizzy,

I back tracked through the earlier posts, thought I double check and I was correct, Black wire from the Honda solenoid goes to terminal S = Solenoid on the Key switch.

Good as Gold and ready to rock and roll

Now for the battery

Cheers, Bondy

Hi Bondy.

Yes, the White wire in the cloth sheath needs to be removed from the ignition switch and secured so the terminal end can't short to ground.
You are correct. Black wire from the solenoid to 'S' on the switch.
The wire you have run from the positive terminal of the solenoid to ''B' terminal of the switch should have the fuse in it at the solenoid end.

Solenoid top is nice and secure on the can?

Cheers,

Hi prd,

Thanks for reconfirming, Yes, I have the wire from the positive terminal of the Honda solenoid to "B" Terminal of the Key switch with glass fuse.

I could not undo one of the 8mm can bolts due to lack of space, I tried 8mm short spanner, and 1/4" drive socket with 50mm and 75mm extension bar.

I left the Honda solenoid in situ, and will apply silastic soon.

The battery has been on charger for 35 hours continual, only three cells seem to be ok, rest of the cells might be knackered.

I don't know if the battery can be revived, couple of web pages (mostly American) saying that old batteries that seem to be dead can be brought back to life. One web site reckons about 1 week on trickle charge.

Not sure about that one. I've sourced one from a wrecker, good battery with blemishes for about $50.00. Only hiccup, the battery height is 19cm, mine is 15.5cm or 16cm if you take the top of the battery case into calcs.

Cheers, Bondy

Success, after having that dead battery on trickle charger for about 4 days continual, finally it's full charged, it read 13.11v, now reads 12.94v, battery could still be cactus as it may not be holding its' charge.

Voltmeter test later tonight and tomorrow am will show results.

Cheers, Bondy

G'day people,

Something went wrong this morning, battery was fully charged, I must had a bad connection on that Honda Solenoid. two terminals on the battery pole side, sparked , next I see battery starting to boil and smoke, cables melting and getting hot.

Immediately cut the wire on battery. That Honda solenoid must have somehow shortened itself, well and truly knackered now, so going to rewire system with new cables.

Thursday next week is test day, see what happens then.

Merry Christmas to all

Hello Bondy
To address your second last post, the only true way to test a batteries performance is to measure its terminal voltage whilst it is under load.
I have tested a lot of batteries with a carbon pile tester. The procedure is to find out the battery capacity CCA or Ah, connect it up to the battery and wind the carbon piles in until the meter reads the batteries capacity, it is a 15 sec test and a 12v battery should not drop below 9.6V.
Because yours took sooooo long to charge up, from where I am sitting, I would say its not accepting charge.
A battery shop should test your battery for free with their electronic tester.
---------------
To talk about your last post.
You have had a massive short to earth for what ever reason, exactly what we were trying to avoid, to state the obvious.

Good luck with the rewire, my advice is to do some dead testing on the OHMS range prior to connecting it up to the battery. When you are confident all is correct and are ready to connect it to the battery, ensure you can cut/remove power quickly if something isn't right.

Yes, Merry Christmas
From Mark

Hello Mark,

Oh ok, there is a company called Battery World, I should have taken it to them to test the battery in the first instance, I'd say that battery would be well and truly cooked by now.

I have managed to source another battery, slightly blemished but still safe and good.

Yep, not wrong about the short to earth, certainly had me off that mower very quickly. Rewire should not be too much of an issue now, as you said, best to do some dead testing on the OHMS range, I purchased a new multimeter yesterday, it has continuity with audible sound function.

Next week hopefully will get that battery and hopefully wires will be sorted.

Merry Christmas.
From Bondy

Hi People,

Many thanks to those who provide me with guidance / assistance in my time of need. I have rewired the greenfield machine. After removing the Honda Solenoid, yes, it was faulty towards the end for reasons unknown, earlier I thought it was in good shape.

I've used the original Greenfield solenoid, tested the wires and connections using multimeter in Ohms range / continuity sound test, connected to car battery via booster cables.

Solenoid clicks when key switch applied to run and starter motor turns and engine engages. I have not connected any wires to recharge battery or to drivers seat (safety switch) at this stage. Leaving that until after New Year.

I attached the heavy cable from the starter motor to other side of greenfield solenoid using additional heavy cable as a link. (Starter motor cable had to be extended as it was short by a few inches). Cable is heavily insulated against rubbing and exposure.

I'll upload new pics by the weekend.

Cheers, bondy

Hi people,

I managed to get the ride on working , no problems, unfortunately the Honda engine that replaced the original Briggs and Stratton has the exhaust pointing directly towards onto my right ankle area.

I felt something getting hot , yep, my right ankle, I too no notice until end of day's cutting only to discover 3 burn spots resulting in blistering, not good for a type 2 diabetic.

Had to make a protective shield to prevent exhaust burns to my ankle in future. I used a piece of Styrofoam sandwiched between two pieces of fibro cement. It worked but getting it to stay around my right foot when using the accelerator was a challenge.

good onya bondy,

Good morning bondy99,
Is it possible to rotate the muffler away from your right foot, or maybe make a small J-shaped extension pipe to weld onto it?

Any chance of putting up a pic of the muffler setup?

If it's the exhaust gas that hits your ankle [rather than radiated heat from the muffler body], it may be possible to fit a deflector on the outlet.

G'day Bondy and Co.,

The little 'scoop' over the exhaust outlet can be repositioned. It is designed that way. It's held on with 3(?) little screws. It can go on in 12, 3, 6 or 9 o'clock positions.

I had to reposition mine when I put my new Honda in.

Cheers,

For anyone contemplating this conversion, it is not that simple.

I have just successfully installed a Honda GXV390 into an Evolution Mk2A.
Would I do it again? Probably not, due to the modifications required.

Re: Exhaust.
The motor has to go "sideways".
The exhaust on my Honda motor model couldn't be reversed.
It has two mounting bolts, and I spent days welding a custom exhaust manifold out of steel water pipe. It needed to be low enough to go under the motor fins, exiting the frame in front of the foot pedal.

Notes on wiring to follow.

Notes on Wiring:

I bypassed the separate solenoid for the original B & S motor, and used the Honda solenoid on the starter motor.

When looking at the very useful diagrams that Mark has posted, distinguish between the Ignition Coil (connects to the spark plug) and the other "Coil" which is the separate Charging Coil (i.e. the Magneto).

In order to stop the motor from the key switch, rather than the throttle control, I "killed" the ignition coil (rather than kill the charging coil/magneto). This is what the throttle-controlled Stop Switch does also.

Assuming you have the same key switch - test your own terminals for continuity first, or risk a melt down!
A test probe on my key switch terminals show that there is continuity between the G (ground/black wire) and the M (magneto/blue wire on my original B&S) when the key is in the off position.
So the M terminal is the one to kill the ignition, and is also what kills the ignition when the seat switch (blue wire) is not engaged.

NOTE: although the terminal is marked M, ensure that you connect to the Ignition Coil, NOT the Magneto(Charging Coil)