OutdoorKing Repair Forum Forums Repairs and Maintenance Questions on Walk Behind Lawn Mower Frames Question On Scott Bonnar Cylinder Mowers Scott Bonnar Craftsman Cylinder Mower

Hi to ODK Members and Guests,
Global moderator CyberJack has discovered this machine that has just been sold on eBay; it is enigmatic and an unusual find...an Scott Bonnar Craftsman... I have never come across one before, and we are most interested where it falls in the SB lineage.

We can from the pic, we can deduce this about it:
It is a 17" machine, manufactured in Thebarton, it possesses the Series 2 Model 45 chassis, so that puts its date of manufacture after December 1975....and that the engine has been replaced with the new inner clutch half to suit the PTO of the Tecumseh.

It has the pram handles of the Lawn King and appears to have been re-painted at some stage...It may not have...
It is a shame that we don't have a pic of the ID plate so we can see the model number.
We know that "Craftsman" was an MSSA brand...so was the machine a store brand...I think so.

Does any member out there have any further info on this enigmatic machine? we would like to know a lot more...
Here's the pic:

G'day folks;
It hasn't been sold yet; the seller is running a bit of a 'Dutch auction' it seems - reducing the starting bid in each relisting, after starting high. It's located in Rouse Hill, NSW for anyone interested. Interestingly, the seller has an actual SB45 also for sale, also with 3hp Tecumseh engine.

As Deejay says, 'Craftsman' was the brand MSAA used on the 'house brand' mowers that were made for them. Initially by Australian manufacturers, but in the MSAA's latter years they seem to have had an agency arrangement with the US Sears Co., who have long owned that trademark for the US market.

The Tecumseh engines do look pretty correct for mid-1970's too, from what I recall of the units fitted to some of the Mobilco-imported Ariens tillers of that time.

It would also have been around that time, that James N. Kirby [and Villiers] discontinued local engine manufacture, following the Whitlam government's removal of import tariff protection on small engines.

We might as well have the two useful ad pics up in full resolution:

Hi Guy's,

I don't think that the engine is original also another give away is that there is no speed controller on the Handle Bar and only on the engine itself. All Scott Bonnar mowers had speed control at your hands and not down at the engine.

One thing I've just noticed and that is I think we can roughly time date this machine to around 1974 as it has the newer style ID plates but is running the two plates one on top of the other just like the last Brass ones did around that same era, so this would be a very early Series 2 Chassis.

There are a few things that don't add up and this makes it really hard to positively identify this machine without any reasonable doubt.

Hope this adds to the bigger picture

Cheers,
BB

Hello DeeJay, Gadge, BB and ODK members,

I waver between being a Doubting Thomas and smelling a rat on this one.
I share BB's concerns on this one.

If this machine is genuine, it will have been made for MSAA.
Victa, Rover and Masport were making Craftsman lawnmowers for this organisation.

However, I can't find evidence that Scott Bonnar were.
Does anyone know whether there was an SB rotary Craftsman?

That front decal looks more suited to a rotary base...
It certainly isn't "Craftsman .. by Scott Bonnar".

BB, it's got to be late 1970's, given the release date of the twin rail machines.
[Administrator DeeJay has put that at December 1975]

And what's that rubber grip doing on the hair trigger?
I think this machine is illegitimate or a pretentious gold & white digger.

I think we need more evidence.
I will not smile unless more evidence is forthcoming!!!

All very interesting.
---------------------------------
JACK.

No craftsman rotary Im aware of Jack....Just curious, what are you trying to find out? This mower is identical to the one I scrapped and mine was a craftsman...it had one red alloy plate on the rear rail and one brass and a 2.5 briggs. It did not however have an SB sticker ..is the date wrong for an SB? Is this your confusion? Just curious is all:)

Hi Blu, Jack and DeeJay,

I might be a year and a couple of months out but that twin ID plate is certainly only on the very late single decks (from memory) and early twin railers (certainty). I too have seen a few "Craftsman's" on eBay from time to time, this is definitely a certainty. Again I feel that the later version Kirby is a ring in as it is too plasticised as they were still using the orange all metal units right up to and including the early twin railers (see photo below)



notice the twin ID plates on this one. So that most definitely says that the plastic Kirby is a ring in.

What's the thoughts ?

Cheers,
BB

Hi All,

Another photo of a Craftsman for the record. This is from an auction site in Adelaide.




Cheers,

Sir Chook

That's fantastic Sir Chook,

That seems to heavily support my theory on the Briggs being the correct engine and it would've been a 2.5 HP unit as well with the small tank.

Can I ask what site you found this on ?

Cheers,
BB.

Also Jetfast/Supaswift and Pope, for sure, among the rotaries.
Not that I've ever seen, or can recall from that era.

Here's a pic from a past thread of a 1977 Briggs engined 'SB45 Craftsman' example:


I guess it's also just possible that someone was making aftermarket SB catchers back in the 70's, and using the Craftsman brand on them...

The last two image examples are Identical to Mine also...:) Just cant remember the date. Its probably some colourbond fencing now anyways...RIP.

Hello Mowerwreck Detectives and ODK members,

I am smiling again

When Administrator Deejay said he was going to post this topic yesterday morning,
he was doing so to see what memories would be jogged. This is a great result.
It shows the power of collective work when challenges are presented.

From my perspective, this helps fill in the record in more than one way:-

In Sir Chook's picture it would appear that SB used 45 green for a branded mower.
Second, SB removed thier own name from the catcher decal - something they did not do
for the 33 or 45 Lawn Kings. I guess it would be nice to find out what the chaincase
decal looked like on the 45 Craftsman.

Second, Sir Chook and Moderator Gadge's photos confirm BB's contention that the regular
B&S engine was used. No special colour scheme for the 45 Craftsman.

Third, the power of corroboration becomes important. Both Blue and BB had direct experience
with this model. They confirmed each other's story.

Fourth, Gadge has added to the MSAA file. That story should be told at some point, as
evidence grows. MSAA seems to have been an effective body in combating the large discount stores...

All in all, I think Deejay will be very happy for a day's work here.
I'm grateful, because I certainly was ignorant of the SB 45 Craftsman.

--------------------------------
JACK.

Hi to ODK Members and Guests,
I am Brand new to forums (first one ever so I will need to get my head around things as we go along).

I have recently purchased a Scott Bonner (Craftsman) with a 2.5hp B&S engine as described in the posts above.

It is a fairly rough rust wise but seems to run perfectly - Starts 1st-2nd pull every time.

I have been reviewing your site for the past month or so and have found the info to be extremely helpful.

I have some photos of my B&S and could post if required (when I learn how too!)

Cheers
watson28711

Hi Watson28711, and a warm welcome to the forum.It's great to have another SB Craftsman owner on board, as we all like to learn new things and tinker here.
We would like to see some pics of your machine, as this will help the archives.
Instructions for posting pics can be found HERE
Any questions that you may have please post to this thread.

Once again, to OutdoorKing.

Hi Deejay & ODK Members,
Thanks for the welcome


Deejay thanks for the instructions on posting a picture this will see if I get it right or not.


Hope these pics help the archives should you require anything more specific yell out and I'll see what I can do.








Cheers
watson28711

Hi Watson,

Gee that mower number is low, only 239 and sadly to this day we still can't work out what was SB's numbering system.

Cheers,
BB

Hi All,
I don't know if I am going to have any luck, but I would like to get hold of a manual (or copy of) for the Briggs 2.5HP motor & a users/owners manual for the craftsman.
Does anyone know if these are available, Having looked on the Rover website, they require additional numbers to what are on the ID plate, but I don't seem to be able locate the additional numbers anywhere on the motor.(I must be either blind or they are well hidden).

Also if anyone can provide further info regarding year of manufacture etc. would also be appreciated - not that I need it particularly, but just to fill a curiosity.

Cheers
Watson28711

Do you mean the engine number? If so you will find it on the engine cowl where the HT lead leaves the cowl assy(just above the small hump). You will need this number for ordering engine parts...It also holds the date of manufacture:) The section of numbers you need are possibly being covered by that small flat bar bracket on the cowl(hard to see in the images) but the numbers are close to this spot..Maybe check underneath:)

Hi BluHT

I'm confused at your instructions as the series of numbers are not usually near the HT lead hump, rather they are stamped into the edge of the engine air cowl that's tucked in alongside the carby area and not on top as you suggest.

Hi Watson,

The numbers will be in 3 sections and the ones that are closest to the top of the cowling will give us the date when the engine was made in the USA, from there it is around 4~6 months later that the actual machine was constructed and the engine mated up to it in the Thebarton Factory. The first numbers (lowest to the bottom of the engine) are the identity of the actual model engine it is.

As far as manuals are concerned you won't find anything on the Rover site at all as these early machines were made by Scott Bonnar prior to Rover ever having anything to do with SB machines and as such the later Briggs Engines are somewhat different from those early days.

The manual for this motor is available on this sites manual section.

Cheers,
BB

Hi BB,
Thanks for the Info but I had a look and can't find any numbers on the cowling at all, I even removed it so that I could check inside.
I have made the right assumption in that the cowling is also the housing for the pull start?
If so I think I may get someone else to check I must be looking straight at it.



watson28711

Hi Watson,

It will be there, cos if it's not yours will be the only Briggs engine that doesn't have its numbering.

Looking at the side of the engine that has the 2.5 HP decal on it, just follow around to the left at the same height as the decal towards the carby and it will be there on that same section, yes that is the engine air cowling.
You really have to look carefully as sometimes the paint is a tad thick and fills up the numbers, especially if its been repainted at some stage.

See how you go.

Cheers,
BB