OutdoorKing Repair Forum Forums Repairs and Maintenance Questions on Engines Questions On Victa Two Stroke Engines 'Bin away 2 years -Victa 160cc problems

Hi Bruce and everyone else,

I've not been on the forum for over 2 years but need some advice again.

I "revived" a Victa Sport Mk 2 at that time - with your help. I've never been able to identify or date this mower exactly - I think it was like your "store models" and possibly remamed for South Africa - but that's not important.

It is a 160cc with the LM carby which should be enough to go on for now (or not!!) Probably made in the 1980's sometime.

"revival" consisted of new rings (inc. honing etc.) but the main culprit was a VERY VERY dirty carby. Cleaned it - new "O" rings etc. but not a "carby kit" (difficult or expensive in South Africa to find parts.)

Once I got it running it ran perfectly (best darn mower I've ever had). I live in the country and have about 3 acres to mow (not all with this machine) but sometimes the grass gets a "bit" long :-). My underpowered 6 H.P.Briggs engined mower really battled with LONG grass but the Victa just took it in it's stride.

I used the mower for about 3 months and then it started to cut out after a few minutes. Symptoms were as for fuel starvation (or breaking down of the coil once warmed up).

I cleaned the carby, jet, pipes, tank, tap, fuel cap etc. and reassembled as per instructions in the manual (Hard copy - Gregory Pub 220 sent to me by an Aussie friend) but the problem persisted. Start the engine - run perfectly for a few minutes and the Bllleeeuuugh - dead. It would restart again immediately but with the same result. The mower ended up "on one side" awaiting attention.

Now, 2 years down the line, I've got back to it. So a few questions:

Today I "semi stripped" the carby (meaning I never removed the cable and the bits that happen after that). Findings are as follows:

i) The carb and main jet are clean
ii) The float, needle and seat are clean and appear to be working fine.
iii) The fuel tank is clean and fuel is flowing freely from the tank and fuel line.
iv) The "O" ring on the float chamber lid (primer cap lid) is suspect - it seems a bit "squashed" and distorted but examined under a very strong magnifier (a diamond loupe) I could not detect any leaking sections.

My problem is that it is Saturday afternoon here and I will only be able to buy a new "O" ring on Monday (at which time I will also buy a new one for the carb mounting).

My question is: "Could the O ring described above cause these problems or is it more indicative of a coil breaking down" ?

Thanks in advance for any answers.
Jerry

Hi there and welcome back!

As to chasing your problem to me it sounds like an ignition issue, but could also be fuel related.

The best way to rule out the ignition would be as soon as the machine cuts out immediately check for spark, if it is weak or non existant you know something is up there, it may be either the coil or rhe ignition module (more likely the ignition module if it is an older style one).

As for the O rings causing the hassles I would surely doubt it, they generally cause hard starting and engine running rough/ overrevving.

Cheers Joe.

Hello Joe,

Thanks for the input. Yes, I am afraid that it may be ignition related. I have not actually checked for spark after stalling (only because that would need an extra pair of hands which are not around when that happens :-)) but the engine does start up right away after stalling and run O.K. for a minute or so before stalling again so I'm checking fuel first. If it is an ignition problem then it will be a while before I can fix it as I will have to order parts from you guys.

Spares are available here but the prices are astronomically high. As an example, this site lists a non genuine primer cap for Aus$ 11.66 whereas the locally available one is the equivalent to AUS$ 40.00.

A note to Bruce, I assume the prices listed are in Aussie$ and not US$ - is that correct. (Should not make too much difference though as they are trading 1:1 here at the moment)

Thanks guys, I'll keep you posted.
Jerry

Hi Joe and anyone else reading,

Today, I gave it another try. Just boiled the old o ring on the primer cup lid for a while and put it back on (not permanent but today is Sunday and no chance to buy a new one). It sealed ie. no leaks under gravity pressure. I discovered that the rubber primer bulb is split but that should not be too much of a problem as it's only a starting aid and to the best of my knowledge should have no effect on the running of the engine. Am I correct or wrong in that assumption.?

Anyway, I started it up which happened on about the third tug and it ran pretty well so I decided to cut some grass. This is the first time I've started it in almost 2 years.

The result was the same as previous. It ran and cut perfectly for about 20 minutes and then died. I only had a little fuel in the tank so added more and it started right up again but only for about another 5 minutes and died again and I could not start it again. (Added this Edit later - the engine had NOT run out of fuel - there was still some in the tank - I just felt it better to fill it all the way.)

I dragged it back to the shop and took the spark plug out and earthed it on the engine and checked for spark. There was spark but due to a slightly gammy hand and not being able to actually hold the plug against the engine and pull the starter cord with the other hand at the same time I was unable to actually determine if the spark was "good". (Unfortunately for me, this is a two person operation and I was alone and it took me at least 10 minutes to check for spark after the engine had died - so it was NOT immediate but I do not think the engine had time to cool down too much).

Tomorrow I will go to town and buy new O rings and a new spark plug and give it one more go but it's beginning to look like the electronic module you mentioned may be the problem. You mentioned "older type". I've taken a pic of mine - could you help identify it for me. (If I can get the file upload thing working !!)



Well if that worked, there should be a pic of my module and another of the actual coil.

I'll post this to see if it worked and then do another post as I have more questions to ask.
Thanks for the help so far.
Jerry

Hi again Joe,

I've been looking at the "Online Store" and seeing what I need to order (apart from the electronic parts).

Would the "Victa & Universal Electronic Ignition Module - $26.97" listed be a suitable replacement for mine?

I'm going to have to rely heavily on help from this Forum to get this motor working properly again and will be ordering parts from "Outdoorking" to do so for the simple reason that in South Africa "small motor repair" has become a total "rip off industry" and unreliable. I would rather battle along and "Do It Myself" (with your help) but at least know what is happening.

I'm not totally "unaware" as far as repairing and restoring engines goes - My hobby is restoring vintage stationary engines but not usually "modern" two strokes like this.

Feel free to visit my website if you have the time:
Jerry's Old Engines in South Africa

More later,
Jerry

Thats the old style module.


The issue you could be having could just be bad earth.

Drill out the rivets, clean up all the surfaces and re-attach the module and try that. Might save you the $$$$ a new one and post would cost.


Cheers, Bob.

Thanks Bob,

Looking at the pic after I'd taken it I had the same idea but have not tried it yet. Quite amazing what you can see in a pic and miss in real life - could just be that my eyes are getting a bit older

I have not had a chance to get back to the machine - got some work in that must take precedence so will only get back to the Victa in a few days and will do that then.



Jerry

Hi Bob,
I finally got round to trying that this weekend and also put new "O" Rings on the primer bulb cover and manifold but the result was the same. This time it only ran for about 5 minutes and then lost power (revs dropped right down).

When this happened I squeezed the rubber air supply pipe from the air filter closed (effectively choking the engine) and it picked up revs again but died back as soon as I let go. That sounds like fuel starvation so maybe it is not the electronics!

Although I've already had the plastic LM carby off and cleaned it I will do so again next weekend with more care - the problem must lie there somewhere. I must say, I'm beginning to intensly dislike that plastic carby.I've never had this kind of problem with a metal carby but this plastic thing is just so different and hard to understand.

I'll be writing "Off Forum" to Outdoorking about parts etc. and getting them to South Africa. I really need to get this engine running decently again.
Cheers,
Jerry

If choking it consistently makes it run better, your problem is lean mixture, so making your test a few more times should show what the problem area is.

Lean mixture can only be: poor fuel feed (blocked in-tank filter, or fuel line); carburetor problem (I'll leave discussion of Victa plastic carburetor issues to one of the resident masochists); or air leakage into the inlet pipe (perhaps through a dislodged or misplaced vacuum hose) or crankcase (since it is a full-crank engine, this could mean one of the crankcase seals is leaking or has blown out of position). Realistically, it could also be a false indication caused by lack of compression (worn rings, scored piston, or faulty decompressor) or a blocked exhaust port or muffler.

You might check the crankcase seals: see that they are in correct position, there is no oil around them, and if you trickle a little fuel on them, it doesn't disappear into the crankcase. The other thing to try is remove the muffler, check that the piston isn't scored by looking at it through the exhaust port, check that the exhaust port isn't carboned up, and run the engine without the muffler to see if the problem still exists. Once you have made those checks there is no longer an excuse not to attack the devil's plaything, the plastic carburetor.

Thanks Grumpy,

Good to see someone else feels the same way about that plastic carbie. I hope someone else can tell me what to do with it (apart from "shove it" that is !)

re: Your suggestions:

1) The muffler is clean - I checked this weekend - in fact I need a new one as it no longer seals to the engine - rusted away there so it is definitely not suffocating the engine.

2)Rings and bore should be O.K. I put new rings in 2 years ago and only used the mower a few times before this problem started - due to lack of time I put it in the back of the shed and only recently got it back out to fix. I will check them again this weekend though.

3) The fuel filter in the tank was removed by some previous owner and there is no blockage there - fuel gravitates from the pipe with no restriction.(I strain the fuel when filling the tank as I use one of those funnels with a built in strainer).

So I think that I can safely rule those 3 out but your other suggestions are good and I'll check those points next weekend.

You mention "or air leakage into the inlet pipe (perhaps through a dislodged or misplaced vacuum hose". Please explain what you mean by "Inlet pipe" - are you referring to the fuel line hose or something inside the carby ?

Many thanks for taking the time to reply.

Jerry

Jerry,

Can you check one thing that might solve your issues and that is the fuel cap, it should have a hole in the center of it and if it is blocked then that will cause your problem.

If it is not then I would be following Grummpy's suggestion of checking the bottom seal because you could have picked up something when cutting the grass damaging the seal.

The symptoms are usually the following:

1. Top oil seal damage (will rev high)

2. Bottom oil seal damage (can be hard to start due to not enough fuel in crankcase)

3. The module you have is the old style and had issues as well with breaking down (suggestion is to replace it).

Hope that this is of some help.

Jerry, please read Bruce's comments carefully - he has repaired more mowers even than Joe Carroll, and he knows whereof he speaks. Also, remember that while your ignition coil does not seem to be the problem right now (if choking it consistently improves its running), it is a known weak link in your engine's reliability.

Because you don't have a fuel filter in the tank, you are at risk of having a blockage in the carburetor fuel intake upstream of the needle-and-seat: the funnel strainer is way too coarse to do the job the fuel filter does.

The inlet pipe is the tube from the carburetor to the engine's intake port: if it were on a multi-cylinder engine it would be called the inlet manifold, but on a single cylinder engine it is the intake pipe. It is under vacuum when the engine is running, and any hoses that run off from it can be a source of vacuum leaks if they are missing, split, or disconnected at the other end.

Having said all that, the single most likely cause of your problem is dirt in the main jet, which is the external, screwed-in device that holds the vertical plastic disk that is the side of your float bowl. A plastic carburetor guy (not me of course) would be suggesting, given that you don't have a fuel filter, that you begin by removing that and blowing it clean. See "jet assembly standard" in this diagram:

Hello Bruce,
Thanks for stepping in, it's appreciated.

The breather hole in the fuel cap is clear and is one of the first things I checked.

This weekend I will check the seals as suggested. I had previously checked them but only visually with the engine still mounted to see if I could see any oil seepage. I'll take the engine off and look properly.

I'm compiling a list of parts I need and will send it through to Outdoorking. I think I will spend a few bucks and get all the parts I could possibly need (and afford) and get the job done properly - the engine is worth it to get it running well again.

thanks again,
Jerry

Thanks Grumpy,
I've noted your comments and will take action.

The main jet is one of the things that I always check first and is clear. I hear what you are saying about the fuel filter but am convinced that is not the problem right now as I've had the tank off so many times lately and cleaned it each time and checked fuel flow as well as the filler cap breather hole. I have also removed the main jet each time and cleaned it with thinners and compressed air. I'm convinced that the fuel is reaching the carby without any problems and, if the problem is fuel related then whatever is happening must be from that point onwards. Either the inlet needle sticks, main jet blocked, or further along the line.
I've checked the needle (it's free, not sticking, and inserted correctly - sharp point first) and main jet often.

Thanks for explaining "inlet pipe" - what I always incorrectly call the manifold :-)

That made me think, (and maybe this is one for the plastic carby "masochists" as you call them). The rubber plug for the cutout wire on this carby could be suspect - it is worn and does not seem to be a good fit - could air enter the inside of the carby through that and, if so, could I safely remove it and plug the hole? - the one cutout wire to it is already disconnected (and taped up) and I could easily fit a separate external cutout switch. As it is, I stop the motor by closing the fuel off.

Thanks again for taking the time to help.
keep well,
Jerry

I have blocked that hole up in the carb before. Find a suitable sized bolt or something to screw in it. Not too long.


The plastic carb itself is fine. The main issue i have with the whole design is the needle and float. They stick shut, they flood and sometimes you just need to be plain viloent.

Turn the fuel on and shake the crap out of the mower. Bounce it around on its wheels. See if that helps.

Have you swapped any parts around?? There are different length needles. Before i put the primer face on the carb i check to see that the float has some room to move. Its looked a few times like the float will sit down on the needle and barely lift off the bottom of the 'bowl'. So i find a longer needle.



Cheers, Bob.

To eliminate the float bowl as a possible problem area, you could remove the side of the float bowl (it's held in by the main jet and an O ring around the outside) then turn on the fuel and see how well it flows (leaving the float in place). Next, lift the float gently and see if it shuts off. Work it up and down a couple of times to see if it is consistent. As Bob said, it may just be stuck shut. If it is a large body of crud upstream of the seat, you will get slow fuel flow when the float is right down. Remember to put the float bowl side panel back on with the same orientation it had originally.

Hi Bob & Grumpy,

Thanks again for the input. I have not swapped needles around - this is the only Victa 160cc that I have so no chance of getting parts mixed up. I had wondered about a sticking needle - it's such a silly little thing and so light weight - I prefer metal carbies and metal needles - at least they have the weight to drop by themselves :-)

I'm currently waiting for a reply from Outdoorking online store re the parts I need and shipping to South Africa. Included in the list is a new (non genuine) primer cap, black needle, float and "O" ring so the possibility of the needle sticking should be resolved when they arrive (which will unfortunately only be in a few weeks time).

I'm also ordering a new electronic ignition module, silencer and a few other parts and will fit new fuel and vacuum lines when I do the job as well as (again) new "O" rings. If that does not sort the problem out then I will be very disappointed. I know that the internals of the engine are good - apart from the seals which I have not checked yet but will do very soon.

Thanks again,
Jerry

Sorry i had that wrong.

Put the needle in and put the float on, if the needle is too long when you push the float up the curve on the bottom of it will barely be in past the edge of the primer cap where the O-ring goes.

Black needle works best ive found. Yellow ones are longer than the black ones. as are the white ones.